I would like ls1's take on this...................

**Murder after Midnight** · 11-19-2009, 02:07 PM

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...052.html?yhp=1

**Y2KPewterSS** · 11-19-2009, 02:11 PM

They should have just asked to speak to the manager before paying. Could have all been resolved without police involvement. Poor actions from both sides. Easily could have been resolved without polich involvement.

***doberman 152*** · 11-19-2009, 02:15 PM

Caught between a rock and a hard place, i would have payed the whole bill and burnt the place down next month.

**Murder after Midnight** · 11-19-2009, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by doberman 152

Caught between a rock and a hard place, i would have payed the whole bill and burnt the place down next month.

lol wow

**Spikito** · 11-19-2009, 02:18 PM

yeah...i waited tables a long time....gratuity is gratuity, if your party is over a certain number, it gets added....and servers especially will if they think you wont tip.....some places the grat goes in automatically, some places the servers ask the managers too.

I happen to have a conscience and if i knew my service was bad, i wouldn't add it...or if i felt that the table would pay over that amount on their own.

In my opinion though, if the grat is added, you pay it, end of story.

**gwballin** · 11-19-2009, 02:21 PM

I eat out very often and usually tip in the 20% range. That said, this story is going to cause so much bad press for the restaurant that they should have avoided the whole thing by taking the gratuity off of the bill.

If I lived in that city I know I wouldn’t be going there to eat or drink.

**grouch0jr** · 11-19-2009, 02:24 PM

a grat should never be added to a table for 2. thats the server covering for shitty service.

**gwballin** · 11-19-2009, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by grouch0jr

a grat should never be added to a table for 2. thats the server covering for shitty service.

From the link "Pope and John Wagner were hauled away by police and charged with theft for not paying the mandatory 18 percent gratuity totaling $16 after eating at the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pa. with six friends."

I’ve seen restaurants’ policy to be to add grat for parties of 6-8 “or more”.

**krese** · 11-19-2009, 02:26 PM

what a bunch of BS. i HOPE the judge throws it out and i hope the couple can sue... a tip is a tip and should NEVER be mandatory.

**korndawg** · 11-19-2009, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by krese

what a bunch of BS. i HOPE the judge throws it out and i hope the couple can sue... a tip is a tip and should NEVER be mandatory.

Agreed!

**grouch0jr** · 11-19-2009, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by gwballin

From the link "Pope and John Wagner were hauled away by police and charged with theft for not paying the mandatory 18 percent gratuity totaling $16 after eating at the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pa. with six friends."

I’ve seen restaurants’ policy to be to add grat for parties of 6-8 “or more”.

i read the whole article but some how missed that "with six friends" haha.

**KahanaReef** · 11-19-2009, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by krese

what a bunch of BS. i HOPE the judge throws it out and i hope the couple can sue... a tip is a tip and should NEVER be mandatory.

I think so too. I was a bar tender for a few years way back when, and I know how servers depend on tips. But, good service is what earns you that tip. We didn't have any mandatory tips in my days behind the bar. But, I made a good living. You make sure your customers are taken care of and happy. Even on the busiest Friday and Saturday nights when you're completely swamped. Cuz... that's where the big bucks are.

**wheeliE-maxx** · 11-19-2009, 02:41 PM

Yeah, alot of restaurants around here, I'm guessing because people are rich and asses towards servers, have that automatic tip policy. You choose to be a waiter, be ready for a big party ya know?

**67CamaroRSSS** · 11-19-2009, 02:57 PM

Do all of you realize that some states pay servers less than minimum wage? In this case the server is depending on the tip to make a living.

Do you also know that some states have a "tip allocation" which is based on your gross ticket sales and is added at the end of the year to your W2 as part of the wages, tips, etc? In this case, if no tip is given the server still has to pay taxes (usually 8-12% of the bill) on that money which they didn't receive.

While I do agree that crappy service is crappy service, attention must be paid to the conditions of the establishment: How busy is the place? Did they at least get a setup (water, napkins, silverware, menu etc) to you, etc.

A gratuity is usual and customary to groups larger than 6 in states which have a tip allocation so the server doesn't get stiffed for the gross receipt.

As a rule, I do not return to places that have bad services but based on my knowledge of the system (yes, at one time I was a server) I still give 5-10% even if it is crappy service. Sometimes it's not their fault.

**4get gto** · 11-19-2009, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by KahanaReef

I think so too. I was a bar tender for a few years way back when, and I know how servers depend on tips. But, good service is what earns you that tip. We didn't have any mandatory tips in my days behind the bar.

Agree...........For some reason around here if the amount of people goes 8-10 people (or whatever) there is a automatic mandatory tip thats included. Don't know who invented that one............If they would just pay their people a fair wage they would'nt have to this. Let the customers decide what they are worth. Its their way (the owners) of getting around paying minimum wages.

**LS1FirehawkWS6** · 11-19-2009, 03:11 PM

I agree with most of what's already been said. Crappy service, pay the gratuity and don't return. Also, the issue could have been solved by the restaurant's manager on duty. There's a lot of un-clear details: How busy was the pub? Was there adequate staffing? Were there complications in the kitchen (i.e.- mixed up orders or broken equipment)? Too vague for me to pass judgment.

In the long run, $16 is a lot cheaper than taking a day off of work to fight a stupid charge in small claims court.

One thing I've learned over the years, don't fuck with people that handle your food.

**Spikito** · 11-19-2009, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

Do all of you realize that some states pay servers less than minimum wage? In this case the server is depending on the tip to make a living.

Do you also know that some states have a "tip allocation" which is based on your gross ticket sales and is added at the end of the year to your W2 as part of the wages, tips, etc? In this case, if no tip is given the server still has to pay taxes (usually 8-12% of the bill) on that money which they didn't receive.

While I do agree that crappy service is crappy service, attention must be paid to the conditions of the establishment: How busy is the place? Did they at least get a setup (water, napkins, silverware, menu etc) to you, etc.

A gratuity is usual and customary to groups larger than 6 in states which have a tip allocation so the server doesn't get stiffed for the gross receipt.

As a rule, I do not return to places that have bad services but based on my knowledge of the system (yes, at one time I was a server) I still give 5-10% even if it is crappy service. Sometimes it's not their fault.

Yep, in Texas its $2.13 an hour, it doesn't qualify for the natl increase when they upped it a few years ago. And yes, at the end of the night, when you clock out, you have to put the tips you earned, credit card tips go in automatically, then we put in cash.

Your tips have to be atleast 10% of sales....but you also gotta remember we have either tip share, or tip out. we did tip out where i worked.

So lets say you have an 800 night. if you average 15%, which is pretty lucky, thats $120 in tips, then the usual tip out is 10% to the bar, 10% to the busser, some have to tip hosts. so thats $24, now im down to $96....and i HAVE to claim atleast $80 and id only get that 96 if it was a good tip night.

Long story short, your right, stiffing a server could possibly cost them money as well.

also 2.13 comes out just right to pay the taxes for your average server. I made more money than most, so my paychecks were always $0.00. and had to pay in at the end of the year.....in 3 years i NEVER got a paycheck over $5

**krese** · 11-19-2009, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

Do all of you realize that some states pay servers less than minimum wage? In this case the server is depending on the tip to make a living.

Do you also know that some states have a "tip allocation" which is based on your gross ticket sales and is added at the end of the year to your W2 as part of the wages, tips, etc? In this case, if no tip is given the server still has to pay taxes (usually 8-12% of the bill) on that money which they didn't receive.

While I do agree that crappy service is crappy service, attention must be paid to the conditions of the establishment: How busy is the place? Did they at least get a setup (water, napkins, silverware, menu etc) to you, etc.

A gratuity is usual and customary to groups larger than 6 in states which have a tip allocation so the server doesn't get stiffed for the gross receipt.

As a rule, I do not return to places that have bad services but based on my knowledge of the system (yes, at one time I was a server) I still give 5-10% even if it is crappy service. Sometimes it's not their fault.

i have an idea... how about we try common sense just for a minute (i'd guess that is too long for common sense!)

how about we blame the cheap ass employers that want to pay their people SQUAT and make them work for tips? huh? how about we blame them instead of people that don't tip for what ever reason???

how about we ALSO blame the greedy fucking government for wanting to TAX tips? huh? how about we stand up for ourselves once in a while?

it is no wonder to me why this damn country is going to hell in a handbasket... people just refuse to look at the real issues....

**Y2KPewterSS** · 11-19-2009, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by krese

i have an idea... how about we try common sense just for a minute (i'd guess that is too long for common sense!)

how about we blame the cheap ass employers that want to pay their people SQUAT and make them work for tips? huh? how about we blame them instead of people that don't tip for what ever reason???

how about we ALSO blame the greedy fucking government for wanting to TAX tips? huh? how about we stand up for ourselves once in a while?

it is no wonder to me why this damn country is going to hell in a handbasket... people just refuse to look at the real issues....

Agreed