The Great Ethanol Scam

[VTXrider]

"Over at BusinessWeek, Ed Wallace is creating quite a stir, reporting that not only is ethanol proving to be a dud as a fuel substitute, but there is increasing evidence that it is destroying engines in large numbers. Before lobbyists convince the government to increase the allowable amount of ethanol in fuel to 15%, Wallace suggests it's time to look at ethanol's effect on smog, fuel efficiency, global warming emissions, and food prices. Wallace concedes there will be some winners if the government moves the ethanol mandate to 15% — auto mechanics, for whom he says it will be the dawn of a new golden age."


http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...514_058678.htm

[third_shift|studios]

can we get a real link?

[SiggyZ]

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...514_058678.htm

[pajeff02]

Interesting reading... that's all I have to say.

[VTXrider]

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...514_058678.htm

Thanks

[FasstChevys]

But yet:

"Luis Araujo

May 26, 2009 4:15 PM GMT
Here in Brazil we have pure ethanol cars running since 1980 and presently all our cars run with any mix of ethanol and gasoline, from 100% ethanol to 100% gasoline, they are called flex-fuel. Of course parts are manufactured accordingly."

Funny how this 'report' comes out of Texas, and he's(Ed Wallace) still using Pi-MENTAL's stupid energy input assumptions.

[third_shift|studios]

Luis doesn't understand the other points the writter has made: its not good for gas milage as once claimed and it will ruin unconverted motors.

[FasstChevys]

Luis doesn't understand the other points the writter has made: its not good for gas milage as once claimed and it will ruin unconverted motors.

Mileage isn't as good....true, but it isn't as expensive as gasoline either. It isn't "ruining unconverted motors" either. The problem lies in the materials used in the fuel systems.

[SiggyZ]

You're welcome.

Thanks

[Stephen Griner]

I have been thinking this was gonna screw some peoples cars up. Ever since they added 10% ethanol to the gas my car has been runing shitty every now and then. I think it will mess with the combustion a little and if you tune is set for straight gas and then you get some added ethanol it just seems it may have some effect. ??? How does the ethanol stay at the proper 10% level? Can it settle out of the mix?

[Sarge]

Mileage isn't as good....true, but it isn't as expensive as gasoline either. It isn't "ruining unconverted motors" either. The problem lies in the materials used in the fuel systems.

This makes no sense at all.
"the problem lies in the materials...." WTF. No the problem is the materials were manufactured to run 100% gasoline and some dipshit sez oh lets put in ethanol then blame it on the components. Tell all the boaters this line of crap. Get ready to run like hell.
Bottom line is ethanol is a failure and a really bad idea all the way around.
Time to shut this disaster of a bullshit project down and get serious with Propane and other alternative sources. It will never ever reduce dependancy on foreign oil as so many other products are made from crude oil other than gasoline. Now FastChevy me and you go round and round on this subject. I know you feed your family from the ethanol industry and I am sensitive to this but ethanol is not the answer.

[FasstChevys]

This makes no sense at all.. "the problem lies in the materials...." WTF. No the problem is the materials were manufactured to run 100% gasoline and some dipshit sez oh lets put in ethanol then blame it on the components. .

Okay, let's get on the same page. (Or at least try to) This particular debate has a large amount of discussions that definitely isn't solved in one quick response. Your quick response isn't addressing as many issues as need to be either.

If some quack out there thinks they can run E85 in their car that doesn't have a fuel system designed for it, they are going to have problems at some point. That's no big secret, is it? So many people want to blame ethanol for their problems, yet they are the ones misusing it in the first place, particularly E85.


Minnesota's been using E10 for nearly twenty years. I'm not seeing and hearing all of the doom and gloom from running it. I'm not seeing and hearing it from the people running E85, as long as their vehicle is a flex-fuel vehicle.

Tell all the boaters this line of crap. Get ready to run like hell..

Ethanol blended fuel can, and will deteriorate fiberglass gas tanks. Once the fiberglass gets into the fuel and engine, bad things happen.

Do you think that was anyone's intention? To deteriorate the gas tanks?

If I owned a boat, I'd switch it to a plastic tank.

Bottom line is ethanol is a failure and a really bad idea all the way around..

I know it's your opinion.

Time to shut this disaster of a bullshit project down and get serious with Propane and other alternative sources.

I think it's time to serious with anything that reduces the amount of money that goes to the rag-heads.

It will never ever reduce dependancy on foreign oil as so many other products are made from crude oil other than gasoline.

It already has reduced dependency on foreign oil. Is it by very much, maybe 5% at best..........but 5% is still 5%.

Now FastChevy me and you go round and round on this subject. I know you feed your family from the ethanol industry and I am sensitive to this but ethanol is not the answer.

Hell, we probably always will go around and around about it.

And, by the way, you've never once heard me say it's "the answer". It is part of the answer though.

I did generate a spreadsheet for you to look at. I'll send it to you in a minute.

[third_shift|studios]

Fine. If the gov't wants us to use their juice, then they should fund my retrofitment or give me the option to use the classic stuff.

[FasstChevys]

Fine. If the gov't wants us to use their juice, then they should fund my retrofitment or give me the option to use the classic stuff.

I agree - you definitely should be able to use ethanol-free gasoline if you choose to.

I've never said otherwise.

[VTXrider]

If I owned a boat, I'd switch it to a plastic tank.

Are you serious do you understand what it is to change a fuel tank on a boat?

Just because some Jackass wants to mandate ethanol in all fuels? The point is not presenting the option of E85 for vehicles that are made for it the point is most cars are not. So they are mandating its use in all vehicles in some states and want this national. They want to increase the levels to E15, not for cars built for ethanol but for all vehicles. Are you now saying everyone should convert their cars, who is going to pay for this? What about thoses who can not afford the conversion? I guess the government can pay for it, it's not their money anyway.

[third_shift|studios]

sarge, was it this political when the world switched to unleaded?

[SiggyZ]

There's the problem. How many folks on this forum drive a flex-fuel vehicle? My daily's a 1990 Honda Accord and you already know what my other car is.

I'm not seeing and hearing it from the people running E85, as long as their vehicle is a flex-fuel vehicle.

[Sarge]

sarge, was it this political when the world switched to unleaded?

Not really. The valve face/seats depended on lead to work properly. We all had to either replace the heads/valves or use a lead substitute. But the pollution was out of control and the entire country was behind it. It was not rammed down our throats at that time. It had the countries support. Ethanol doesn't have the countries support.

[pajeff02]

Mileage isn't as good....true, but it isn't as expensive as gasoline either. It isn't "ruining unconverted motors" either. The problem lies in the materials used in the fuel systems.

From everything I have read, the mileage falls by at least 20%. A vehicle that would travel 25 miles on a gallon of gasoline, only goes 20 miles on a gallon of E85. Also, unless something has changed, I understood that E85/ethanol production was subsidized so that it can compete with gasoline on a cost per gallon comparison. Am I mistaken?

[JoshieDoom]

I do know you cant find ethanol nearly ANYWHERE around here. I was on lunch break one day and some older couple driving some little econobox car walked up to me at the pump and asked where e85 could be purchased. They were really pissed when I told them no where for over 75 miles.

I dont understand. Everyone is having issues with carb internals working with it, everyone is having issues with it in general. I see no valid argument for it.