The fall of the NFL continues...

**Blakbird24** · 09-08-2015, 11:27 AM

I knew this was coming someday. It's really long, but a very interesting read nonetheless. If in a year, or ten, we find out that professional football has been completely a scripted production since the late nineties I would not be the slightest bit surprised.

From Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and New England Patriots apart

**0rion** · 09-08-2015, 04:41 PM

it's just under terrible leadership is all and it's way of dealing with rule violations is completely flawed. I find it funny that espn is digging up shit 7 years old trying to make it current news. Next week when the games start this will all go away like it always does.

**GTP231** · 09-08-2015, 07:37 PM

Whhaaaaa who cares. They never had direct evidence to tie Brady give it a rest.

**5.0THIS** · 09-08-2015, 08:47 PM

As poorly as this was handled, and as shady as the Patriots may have been, the NFL isn't going anywhere.

**theorangeguy** · 09-09-2015, 06:04 AM

Roger Goodell has never to my knowledge performed or held an investigation that was "by the book" so it was pretty much impossible for this investigation to hold up in court...all they had to do was find one piece of the puzzle that was not done correctly or was biased and it was game over.

**Blakbird24** · 09-09-2015, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by theorangeguy

Roger Goodell has never to my knowledge performed or held an investigation that was "by the book" so it was pretty much impossible for this investigation to hold up in court...all they had to do was find one piece of the puzzle that was not done correctly or was biased and it was game over.

Yup...and now every single punishment handed down will be challenged and overturned in court. The NFL no longer has the power to enforce it's rules. The unraveling has begun.

Obviously, i'm not saying that professional football is going away. Of course not. But the NFL as we know it is doomed. The future will be a less laughable version of the XFL (if anyone remembers that).

**theorangeguy** · 09-09-2015, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Blakbird24

Yup...and now the NFL has no power to enforce it's rules. The unraveling has begun.

Obviously, i'm not saying that professional football is going away. Of course not. But the NFL as we know it is doomed. The future will be a less laughable version of the XFL (if anyone remembers that).

The NFL union runs the show...every time they get upset they flex some muscle and get whatever they want most of the time.

I'm really surprised Roger has lasted this long BUT I can see how he's still in his position because he has substantially increased revenues which is what the owners wanted and why they back him.

**5.0THIS** · 09-09-2015, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Blakbird24

Obviously, i'm not saying that professional football is going away. Of course not. But the NFL as we know it is doomed. The future will be a less laughable version of the XFL (if anyone remembers that).

The nfl is going to continue to move along nicely. Things aren't going to change hardly at all. As soon as we get a week or two into the season everyone will forget about his and it's going to be business as usual.

***SMWS6TA*** · 09-10-2015, 06:35 AM

If the Players Union is as strong as some of you feel then how come they haven't pushed for the removal of Salary caps? Why would players want their salaries restricted because the team as a whole can't spend more then x per season?

I know the purpose of Salary cap is to prevent teams like DAL, Pat's and 49's running away with all the elite players all the time.

**0rion** · 09-10-2015, 09:01 AM

because it's the players union's job to get everyone paid and not just the big market teams. The salary cap is to try and make the field more level.

***SMWS6TA*** · 09-10-2015, 09:20 AM

So you're confirming my point. Cap is suppose to work just like the draft. Shittest team in the league gets the #1 pick. So what's the point of winning the SB if you don't get the spoils of winning. Win the SB you get 1st pick, lose you get last pick. That should make SB more interesting.....

Salary cap keeps the low paid players lower and lets the high pay players bargain for more.

How many times do you see 1 player paid multi-million contracts and the young 1-2 yr player get's mostly peanuts. Most start out at 100k or less. Only the rare superstar breaks that and for the 1-2 yr guys it's when they get a real agent that their payday goes up.

If no cap you cant argue teams like DAL with JJ wouldn't kick the money out. He's the riches owner of the league.

**Whamhammer** · 09-10-2015, 09:44 AM

Honestly, I do believe that this does hurt the NFL. As far as lack of evidence goes, phones don't get destroyed just in time to not hand it over to the investigators for nothing. Brady had something to hide, or he wouldnt have destroyed the phone. We don't know what it is, but we do know his action has put a serious question mark to his ethics and integrity, for all we know, he was hiding somethong even more damaging.

There has been more of a hint of Patriots inpropriety over they years, and this adds to it, and also brings into question every other teams integrity. The total overturning of punishment by the courts makes it even worse. I think fans from everywhere will have less interest, and viewership will take a hit because of the lack of legitimacy the league now garners.

**0rion** · 09-10-2015, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

So you're confirming my point. Cap is suppose to work just like the draft. Shittest team in the league gets the #1 pick. So what's the point of winning the SB if you don't get the spoils of winning. Win the SB you get 1st pick, lose you get last pick. That should make SB more interesting.....

Salary cap keeps the low paid players lower and lets the high pay players bargain for more.

How many times do you see 1 player paid multi-million contracts and the young 1-2 yr player get's mostly peanuts. Most start out at 100k or less. Only the rare superstar breaks that and for the 1-2 yr guys it's when they get a real agent that their payday goes up.

If no cap you cant argue teams like DAL with JJ wouldn't kick the money out. He's the riches owner of the league.

I'm gonna assume this is the back pills talking

but I'll play along. The cap along with the draft is set up to keep teams equal. That way you don't have 70-7 blowouts like you do in college. It makes more sense for everyone in the league if the teams are competitive. Ask JJ how much money he makes when Jacksonville comes to town versus how much money he makes when Green Bay or some other powerhouse comes to town. People won't go to games that are going to be known blowouts.....exactly why the NFL does blackouts.
Now...onto player salaries. There are vet minimums to protect vet players salaries and a couple years ago they capped the amount a rookie can make and assigned it by draft position. They may as well call that the Sam Bradford rule. What happens is a double edged sword though. Vets eventually earn more than their production and then have problems finding a team late in their careers. Case in point is right now Hakeem Nicks did a work out for the Saints. The only way he's going to get signed by ANY team right now is at vet minimum. Tenn just cut him and he was only going to make like $1.4M. His production just doesn't equal his pay these days. The vet minimum for him is like $100k or something like that. Pierre Thomas was cut by the saints this year because they didn't feel his production was worth his salary so for the team it made more sense to just release him versus paying the money. Without the vet minimum though he could've bargained to stay in the league another year or two so the end result is him sitting at home earning zero dollars. TO, Chad Johnson, ect ect. Those guys were in the same boat. Instead of guaranteed money for the vet players it just speeds up retirement.

**0rion** · 09-10-2015, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Whamhammer

Honestly, I do believe that this does hurt the NFL. As far as lack of evidence goes, phones don't get destroyed just in time to not hand it over to the investigators for nothing. Brady had something to hide, or he wouldnt have destroyed the phone. We don't know what it is, but we do know his action has put a serious question mark to his ethics and integrity, for all we know, he was hiding somethong even more damaging.

There has been more of a hint of Patriots inpropriety over they years, and this adds to it, and also brings into question every other teams integrity. The total overturning of punishment by the courts makes it even worse. I think fans from everywhere will have less interest, and viewership will take a hit because of the lack of legitimacy the league now garners.

you were making sense until that statement

If one thing has been proven it's that the fans don't give a shit about any of that. Fans are willing to have murderers, rapists, and thugs on their teams if it means winning. That's fact. Ask any patriots fan if they would want Brady on their team. Then go ask any fan of any team if they would want Brady on their team. You will get almost a 100% yes vote from all of them. The only people that would say no are the guys that either know it would never happen or the guys that deep down know they're lying. If Brady hit free agency he would have his pick of 31 other teams to choose from just like Manning did. The NFL is going nowhere no matter what they do. The fans would never let that happen. I can see no issue that would ever even cause a decline in viewers for the NFL. If anything all this horse shit makes them more popular. Wonder what the ratings will be for the game tonight? Guarantee you it'll be more than any other show on tonight.

**Blakbird24** · 09-10-2015, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by 0rion

you were making sense until that statement

If one thing has been proven it's that the fans don't give a shit about any of that. Fans are willing to have murderers, rapists, and thugs on their teams if it means winning. That's fact. Ask any patriots fan if they would want Brady on their team. Then go ask any fan of any team if they would want Brady on their team. You will get almost a 100% yes vote from all of them. The only people that would say no are the guys that either know it would never happen or the guys that deep down know they're lying. If Brady hit free agency he would have his pick of 31 other teams to choose from just like Manning did. The NFL is going nowhere no matter what they do. The fans would never let that happen. I can see no issue that would ever even cause a decline in viewers for the NFL. If anything all this horse shit makes them more popular. Wonder what the ratings will be for the game tonight? Guarantee you it'll be more than any other show on tonight.

I agree with what you are saying. Ratings have proven that it doesn't matter what goes on outside of the game, or what type of people the players are outside of the game. As long as the game continues to be the game, people will watch. But you are not addressing what happens when the game ceases being the game and starts being "a production". What happens then? What happens when games stop being truly competitive and/or we learn that their outcomes are not completely left to chance? The early signs of the first scenario have already appeared, and if you think the second scenario is not possible or will never happen then I have a bridge and some beachfront property to sell you.

***SMWS6TA*** · 09-10-2015, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by 0rion

I'm gonna assume this is the back pills talking

but I'll play along. The cap along with the draft is set up to keep teams equal. That way you don't have 70-7 blowouts like you do in college. It makes more sense for everyone in the league if the teams are competitive. Ask JJ how much money he makes when Jacksonville comes to town versus how much money he makes when Green Bay or some other powerhouse comes to town. People won't go to games that are going to be known blowouts.....exactly why the NFL does blackouts.
Now...onto player salaries. There are vet minimums to protect vet players salaries and a couple years ago they capped the amount a rookie can make and assigned it by draft position. They may as well call that the Sam Bradford rule. What happens is a double edged sword though. Vets eventually earn more than their production and then have problems finding a team late in their careers. Case in point is right now Hakeem Nicks did a work out for the Saints. The only way he's going to get signed by ANY team right now is at vet minimum. Tenn just cut him and he was only going to make like $1.4M. His production just doesn't equal his pay these days. The vet minimum for him is like $100k or something like that. Pierre Thomas was cut by the saints this year because they didn't feel his production was worth his salary so for the team it made more sense to just release him versus paying the money. Without the vet minimum though he could've bargained to stay in the league another year or two so the end result is him sitting at home earning zero dollars. TO, Chad Johnson, ect ect. Those guys were in the same boat. Instead of guaranteed money for the vet players it just speeds up retirement.

You are saying my argument about the cap in my head but can't seem to put it to paper or this case post. We at least in my head are thinking the same thing...

Originally Posted by 0rion

you were making sense until that statement

If one thing has been proven it's that the fans don't give a shit about any of that. Fans are willing to have murderers, rapists, and thugs on their teams if it means winning. That's fact. Ask any patriots fan if they would want Brady on their team. Then go ask any fan of any team if they would want Brady on their team. You will get almost a 100% yes vote from all of them. The only people that would say no are the guys that either know it would never happen or the guys that deep down know they're lying. If Brady hit free agency he would have his pick of 31 other teams to choose from just like Manning did. The NFL is going nowhere no matter what they do. The fans would never let that happen. I can see no issue that would ever even cause a decline in viewers for the NFL. If anything all this horse shit makes them more popular. Wonder what the ratings will be for the game tonight? Guarantee you it'll be more than any other show on tonight.

^^^this.

Fans don't give 2 shits if NFL players are honest or even honest, they aren't politicians or priests/any religious figure.

**0rion** · 09-10-2015, 10:26 AM

entertainment sells.....look at the WWE. People don't care. Look at what the NFL has done to the game itself.....they've tied the defense's hands in the name of player safety (mostly to increase scoring IMO) and football just keeps getting more popular. The PI rule that was flagged 498983 times last year that carries an automatic 1st down. Shitty rule and one that's over flagged and carries too large of a penalty and yet no one cares. Once that ball is in the air it should be anyone's ball but that's beside the point. My point, I guess, is that I can see no reason that would even reduce viewership much less put the NFL in any sort of financial troubles. Go to a game and look at the prices they get for food/drink.....not even factoring in the ticket prices. People will go and they will pay. A deflated football isn't shit. It will make zero difference in anything. People simply will not care 2 weeks from now.

**Blakbird24** · 09-10-2015, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by 0rion

entertainment sells.....look at the WWE. People don't care. Look at what the NFL has done to the game itself.....they've tied the defense's hands in the name of player safety (mostly to increase scoring IMO) and football just keeps getting more popular. The PI rule that was flagged 498983 times last year that carries an automatic 1st down. Shitty rule and one that's over flagged and carries too large of a penalty and yet no one cares. Once that ball is in the air it should be anyone's ball but that's beside the point. My point, I guess, is that I can see no reason that would even reduce viewership much less put the NFL in any sort of financial troubles. Go to a game and look at the prices they get for food/drink.....not even factoring in the ticket prices. People will go and they will pay. A deflated football isn't shit. It will make zero difference in anything. People simply will not care 2 weeks from now.

There it is, you hit on exactly what I was thinking. The NFL is the new WWF, and will have the same future.

**5.0THIS** · 09-10-2015, 11:16 AM

kevin, the nfl isn't going anywhere. Just stop dude.

**Blakbird24** · 09-10-2015, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by 5.0THIS

kevin, the nfl isn't going anywhere. Just stop dude.

I never started.

I know you are not so naive as to think that in an organization where so much money is at stake, that games are truly left to chance. If you can honestly say you believe that, then I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree and wait and see.