Bought to order these parts for the Grandnational opinions..

**Murder after Midnight** · 03-05-2011, 07:29 PM

http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_in...1bcc19c6a37780

http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_in...1bcc19c6a37780

http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_in...1bcc19c6a37780

http://www.turbotweakstore.com/Produ...oductCode=1000

Got a race against a 2011 Mustang gt and 03 cobra this spring time to start working on the car.........with these mods how do you think i will do?

**blackSS01** · 03-06-2011, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Murder after Midnight

http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_in...1bcc19c6a37780

http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_in...1bcc19c6a37780

http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_in...1bcc19c6a37780

http://www.turbotweakstore.com/Produ...oductCode=1000

Got a race against a 2011 Mustang gt and 03 cobra this spring time to start working on the car.........with these mods how do you think i will do?

I would be skeptical about buying a Turbo for $600. That seems a little too good to be true in my opinion. Thats just my .02 and I will admit I don't know jack about GN's but $600 for a turbo just sounds weird

**Murder after Midnight** · 03-06-2011, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by blackSS01

I would be skeptical about buying a Turbo for $600. That seems a little too good to be true in my opinion. Thats just my .02 and I will admit I don't know jack about GN's but $600 for a turbo just sounds weird

It's on sale and it's for the turbo itself not a whole turbo kit........

**blackSS01** · 03-06-2011, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by Murder after Midnight

It's on sale and it's for the turbo itself not a whole turbo kit........

I seen that but that still seems cheap. My best guess would be to hit up a GN board or PM other GN owners on this site and see if anyone has experience with that Turbo

Another good mod though (Have no clue about GN's) would be to get hard piping for the intercooler/turbo. Can't be that much money and it helps with boost. If it already has hard piping, excuse my ignorance and continue on

**310stanger** · 03-06-2011, 07:41 AM

you mod a grand national in combinations of parts. i would really be talking to the turbo buick guys about this kind of stuff. i dont think x y z individual parts, not knowing how the current car runs is gonna be able to say how you will do against a new 5.0 and a terminator. the new 5.0s are doing high 11s with bolt ons and good drivers already. low 12s stock. the 03 cobra, it could be a 600 horsepower car, you are very vague.

**FasstChevys** · 03-06-2011, 08:15 AM

Go to turbobuick.com.

That's where I go for info about the '89 TTA(engine-wise).

For under $2,500, you can be in the 11's with ease.

Edit: You have a decent list there - you better add a ScanMaster to your list as well.

**Murder after Midnight** · 03-06-2011, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by 310stanger

you mod a grand national in combinations of parts. i would really be talking to the turbo buick guys about this kind of stuff. i dont think x y z individual parts, not knowing how the current car runs is gonna be able to say how you will do against a new 5.0 and a terminator. the new 5.0s are doing high 11s with bolt ons and good drivers already. low 12s stock. the 03 cobra, it could be a 600 horsepower car, you are very vague.

your right man sorry it was late when i posted it, the gt is stock except cold air kit 6sp with stock 3.73's. and the termi is pullied, k&n intake, exhaust and tuned, but u are right i will ask at turbo buick.

**Smittro** · 03-06-2011, 02:04 PM

If it is'nt a "pinked" engine I would'nt try building a ton of power with it..

Internal block webbing was'nt the greatest..

However Turbo 3800's (not the same as the BOP 3.8) have taken f-bodies into the 8's...

**Smittro** · 03-06-2011, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by FasstChevys

Go to turbobuick.com.

That's where I go for info about the '89 TTA(engine-wise).

For under $2,500, you can be in the 11's with ease.

Edit: You have a decent list there - you better add a ScanMaster to your list as well.

Your TTA has the "then" updated BOP block..

Pretty sure that's about the time powder forging came into play as well..

It's a well built engine more mod friendly imho..

**FasstChevys** · 03-06-2011, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Smittro

Your TTA has the "then" updated BOP block..

Pretty sure that's about the time powder forging came into play as well..

It's a well built engine more mod friendly imho..

Definitely - especially if you choose your mods wisely. That thing hauls the mail.

**Smittro** · 03-06-2011, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by FasstChevys

Definitely - especially if you choose your mods wisely. That thing hauls the mail.

It will do it loaded full of people too.. The "pinked" engines actually had "pink" rods..

This was done so it was known to others that this was a factory forged rod engine..

Pink rods= real forged steel rods not cast which was what nearly all BOP 3.8's got till powder forging came along..

Which is the standard rod (in type only) on ALL the subsequent 3800 non-BOP Series-I-II-III's (reguardless of engine designation l36-l67, etc)....

After the change over to powder forging, the 60*v6 was and still the only GM v6 that retains real factory forged rods..

No balance shaft for the 660's either..

**GTP231** · 03-08-2011, 01:10 PM

Isn't a balance shaft in the place the cam would be on the LQ1s?
Balance shafts aren't really any hinderance for making power on the later model 3.8s either...

**Smittro** · 03-08-2011, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by GTP231

Isn't a balance shaft in the place the cam would be on the LQ1s?
Balance shafts aren't really any hinderance for making power on the later model 3.8s either...

Nope, it's a blank cam, sole purpose is to run the oil pump and the primary cog..

Without a balance shaft a 3800 would self destruct as it's an intrigal part of the rotational masses weight..

IT's sole purpose is the counter balance or "buffer" the entire rotating mass..

The 60* "V" angle is a near perfect angle for near natural balance of the rotating and reciprocating mass..

No balance shaft needed...

First 3.8's were once "odd fire" engines and vibrated constantly like a mild misfire.

In subsiquent years the engine was produced as an even fire..

The vibration was lessoned but not solved..

The addition of the balance shaft solved this problem and helped give a smoother/broader torque curve as well..

With balance shaft in place the 3800 series went on to be rated as one of the top 10 "best engines ever produced"...

**Smittro** · 03-08-2011, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Smittro

Nope, it's a blank cam, sole purpose is to run the oil pump and the primary cog..

Without a balance shaft a 3800 would self destruct as it's an intrigal part of the rotational masses weight..

IT's sole purpose is the counter balance or "buffer" the entire rotating mass..

The 60* "V" angle is a near perfect angle for near natural balance of the rotating and reciprocating mass..

No balance shaft needed...

First 3.8's were once "odd fire" engines and vibrated constantly like a mild misfire.

In subsiquent years the engine was produced as an even fire..

The vibration was lessoned but not solved..

The addition of the balance shaft solved this problem and helped give a smoother/broader torque curve as well..

With balance shaft in place the 3800 series went on to be rated as one of the top 10 "best engines ever produced"...

.and somewhere's around 99-2000 (may have been sooner have to look it up), softer rings replaced the harder high speed rings.

As the engine is/was notorious for burning oil, even when new...

**GTP231** · 03-08-2011, 06:26 PM

Never heard of eating oil that much. I know mine never did. The gf's did but she always waited for the oil change indcator to hit 0 then waited a week

Your balance shaft removal statement is a myth. Seal the oil holes and all is well with no shaft

**Smittro** · 03-08-2011, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by GTP231

Never heard of eating oil that much. I know mine never did. The gf's did but she always waited for the oil change indcator to hit 0 then waited a week

Your balance shaft removal statement is a myth. Seal the oil holes and all is well with no shaft

You think so huh? What's it there for then..?

I would not recommend anyone trying that either..

**GTP231** · 03-08-2011, 07:29 PM

Its there to make customers happy about idle smoothness. Similar to the plastic coated timing gears in the 80s because timing sets made too much noise

**Smittro** · 03-08-2011, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by GTP231

Its there to make customers happy about idle smoothness. Similar to the plastic coated timing gears in the 80s because timing sets made too much noise

The 3800 balance shaft is integrated with the rotating assembly as I explained in #13

. As well as the curve..

You can also clearly see that it's a heavily off weighted componet making it a key part of the rotating assm.

Yes it most definetly would effect the smoothness of engine operation..

that's. not a good thing

I have personally never heard a good result from removing the shaft..

Tho I suppose you could overcome it's use by simply changing the crank dimensions..

I also remember the awesome 80's pot metal timing sprockets with nylon teeth..

Usually the teeth could be found in pieces in the oil pan..

**GTP231** · 03-09-2011, 03:42 AM

Can't run the balance shaft and a double roller chain. Plenty of people with those on other boards and running fine.

**Smittro** · 03-09-2011, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by GTP231

Never heard of eating oil that much. I know mine never did. The gf's did but she always waited for the oil change indcator to hit 0 then waited a week

Your balance shaft removal statement is a myth. Seal the oil holes and all is well with no shaft

Missed the first part there..

It's my personal belief that softer rings preserved cores..

Yeah it did'nt happen to them all appearantly.

But it has been the topic of many 3800 descussions..

Mine only used to burn more than usual only @ WOT.

I changed to 5w30 @ around 78k and by 100k it stopped burning oil..

lol go figure..