Any 3D graphic designers/comp programmers?

**01RaptorTA** · 10-03-2007, 08:23 AM

Just curious to see if we have any on the board. Im looking to get into the field myself, but cant decide which to pursue first.

**third_shift|studios** · 10-03-2007, 09:22 AM

schooled @ la roche college in pittsburgh for 4 years of graphic and communication design.

Moved to cincinnati to begin my career as a junior designer for an advertising firm which lead to becoming multimedia director.

Got bored and started doing freelance work at night [hence, third_shift|studios]

never worked with 3D stuff, but when I was dreaming of being a 3D designer back in highschool-i thought I needed a lot of math and logic classes, turns out its considered an "art form" and the school I wanted to attended demanded a portfolio of examples...i had zero at the time-think I got in? So i resorted to graphic design, which i honestly think is much more fun b/c of the phsychology involved

**01RaptorTA** · 10-03-2007, 12:27 PM

Hmmm i see... So far the only thing i have to my name is a catalog i made/am working on for a friend as a side project. I use both tenses because its completed but he has me constantly doing revisions to it. I guess i better start putting together some of my work then. Thanks for the response TSS

**ibanez7** · 10-03-2007, 12:50 PM

3D Industrial Design Manager.

I use:

3D Packages:
Solidworks
Maya
3D studio max
Rhino
Alias studio tools
Alias auto studio

2D packages:
alias sketch book pro
photoshop
illustrator.

what are you questions. I do everything from industrial design, video games, consumer product design (which is industrial design) to mechanical engineering.

**01RaptorTA** · 10-03-2007, 05:42 PM

Wow, i'd bet those packages are expensive... I got Inventor and 3DS for free, but i know they'd be around 6 grand for both. I'm leaning heavily towards video game design, so i guess my question is, what classes should i start taking now at a 2yr college to set myself up for a good 4 year college? I'm told a decent degree can be attained by simply going to a 4 year college (and most of the time, completing in 3) but i have the resources and ability to do all the college i need, so i figure why not. Also, do you program as well, or just design? I'm wondering if video game design would require a decent amount of programming knowledge to be able to design something that the programmers can actually use efficiently, ya know?

**third_shift|studios** · 10-04-2007, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by 01RaptorTA

Hmmm i see... So far the only thing i have to my name is a catalog i made/am working on for a friend as a side project. I use both tenses because its completed but he has me constantly doing revisions to it. I guess i better start putting together some of my work then. Thanks for the response TSS

next time set your contract up so that your design time and revisions are billable hours.

**01RaptorTA** · 10-04-2007, 11:57 AM

Everything i do is billable. Its very informal though, i keep track of all time spent in an excel file, logging all the way back to august of 06.

**SiggyZ** · 10-04-2007, 12:48 PM

Keep in mind how demanding the 3D world can be. Your work will have to be on another level and need to stand out since the technology has been around for awhile now. I'm a graphic designer and had training on Alias/Wavefront and 3D Studio and yet, my strong suit was in the field of 2D design in the theme and commercial sense. I'm now a full on graphic designer/website developer and have been so since '98.

Christibelle · 10-04-2007, 01:04 PM

i've just got a degree in graphic design, nothing special lol but if you have the talent and the desire i'd say go for it!

**Daniel P.** · 10-04-2007, 01:07 PM

I'm sitting in CAD class does that count?

not my field just thought it would be fun and useful, I'm actually an electronics major

**SiggyZ** · 10-04-2007, 01:13 PM

CAD is design in a sense. I use a program called 20/20 and also AutoCAD LT.

Originally Posted by Daniel P.

I'm sitting in CAD class does that count?

not my field just thought it would be fun and useful, I'm actually an electronics major

**01RaptorTA** · 10-04-2007, 01:15 PM

Well when i said 3D graphic designer, i guess what i mean is a 3D modeller to be used in video games...not like 3D graphics used to advertise and what-not. My ultimate goal is to attend Full Sail at some point. If you get a degree there, you're almost gauranteed a good job in the field.

**01RaptorTA** · 10-04-2007, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by SiggyZ

CAD is design in a sense. I use a program called 20/20 and also AutoCAD LT.

Isn't AutoCAD becoming more and more obsolete as Inventor becomes more and more powerful? In both shops ive worked at, they do 90% of their work in Inventor and only use AutoCAD for the older parts. I guess that would differ depending on field of use. I can see construction using ACAD more because its more tuned to blueprint type work...

**SiggyZ** · 10-04-2007, 01:21 PM

Okay, with 3D gaming comes about the same pressure to produce top notch stuff. But if you can pull it off, you're going to be living very comfortably. I remember when I was still in college in Dallas and hearing about the designers at ID Software (Doom and Quake) heading to work in their exotic sports cars. Many of them had only been out of college a few years.

Originally Posted by 01RaptorTA

Well when i said 3D graphic designer, i guess what i mean is a 3D modeller to be used in video games...not like 3D graphics used to advertise and what-not. My ultimate goal is to attend Full Sail at some point. If you get a degree there, you're almost gauranteed a good job in the field.

**01RaptorTA** · 10-04-2007, 01:47 PM

Right, i hear ya. Its about how you present yourself in the early years that define how you end up. I dont expect to make millions and retire at 30, I just want a career that i enjoy doing all day, every day. If i could make video games for a living, i would be living a dream no matter how much i made.

**ibanez7** · 10-04-2007, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by 01RaptorTA

Wow, i'd bet those packages are expensive... I got Inventor and 3DS for free, but i know they'd be around 6 grand for both. I'm leaning heavily towards video game design, so i guess my question is, what classes should i start taking now at a 2yr college to set myself up for a good 4 year college? I'm told a decent degree can be attained by simply going to a 4 year college (and most of the time, completing in 3) but i have the resources and ability to do all the college i need, so i figure why not. Also, do you program as well, or just design? I'm wondering if video game design would require a decent amount of programming knowledge to be able to design something that the programmers can actually use efficiently, ya know?

cost:

Solidworks - $8900
Maya - $11000
3D studio max - $5000
Rhino -$500
Alias studio tools - $23000
Alias auto studio - $60,000 not a type error.

2D packages:
alias sketch book pro - $200
photoshop - $600
illustrator - $600

Advanced Render lighting software:
Maxwell - $2000 with fluid motion sim.

To answer your question, if video game design requires programming knowledge.

first off I used to work at WMS gaming designing casino games and at Midway games designing arcade games (mortal kombat).

the answer is yes and no. If you want to design the physics engine and how the game behaves then yes you need programming. The answer is NO, if you just want to do modeling/animation.

now when MOST video games are made you have separate teams and its broken down like this.

in game/during game play, this also apply's to cinematic scenes.

group 1 - creates the 3D model
group 2 - skins the models
group 3 - animates the models

Then you may have a separate design team that creates the story board which groups 1-3 need to follow.

Some smaller gaming companies, may have one group do the work of all 3 groups. Meaning you might model, skin and animate.

Larger companies have found out that by breaking into groups, games are created faster.

Now in regards to schools: Video Games degrees (usually bachelors of fine arts) are popping up everywhere.

One of the best and most recognized schools is Illinois Institute of Art. This is one of the best because so many gaming companies exist in the chicago land area and many teachers are game designers. However the chain of Institute of Arts are great schools.

Now because of Video game degrees popping up everywhere, the competition is fierce. When I started you didnt need a degree and I still dont have one and ive been doing this for over 10yrs now. Before, to get a job as a game designer you just need a badass portfolio, now because of the degrees and the competition you need an extremely badass profile (something unique) and a degree really helps too.

When creating a portfolio just make something very unique so by the time the interview is over, they remember your name and want to hire you. I have seen way too many boring typical portfolios.

If you like the idea of modeling and animating another route would be, to work at a design firm that creates 3d animation for various clients (such as commercials adds or a company like Pixar or dreamworks). Thats great because your not stuck on the same project forever like in gaming.

I enjoyed gaming but got out because of working on the same game for a year or two gets old...

Plus at my current job, i have no stress or deadlines and its great.

**ibanez7** · 10-04-2007, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by 01RaptorTA

Isn't AutoCAD becoming more and more obsolete as Inventor becomes more and more powerful? In both shops ive worked at, they do 90% of their work in Inventor and only use AutoCAD for the older parts. I guess that would differ depending on field of use. I can see construction using ACAD more because its more tuned to blueprint type work...

honestly autocad sucks and so does Inventor and ProE. autocad is an ancient program that ran a 2d world, now the world is 3d.
pro e and inventor both copy solidworks but fail to produce ease of use results

Solidworks is the number one selling 3D cad software for mechanical engineers, designers, renders and industrials designers. the advance surfacing techniques are amazing.

**ibanez7** · 10-04-2007, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Daniel P.

I'm sitting in CAD class does that count?

not my field just thought it would be fun and useful, I'm actually an electronics major

even if electronics is your major... A background in 3D CAD will land you a job anywhere paying more....

**ibanez7** · 10-04-2007, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by 01RaptorTA

Right, i hear ya. Its about how you present yourself in the early years that define how you end up. I dont expect to make millions and retire at 30, I just want a career that i enjoy doing all day, every day. If i could make video games for a living, i would be living a dream no matter how much i made.

you last statement is a great thought.

with the flood of fresh graduate game designers every year, the salaries have started to drop.

most schools have graduates starting in the business making between $35k and $45K, for modelers, animators or skinners. of course that is average and it can be more, pending the company and your skills

For an actual game designer, which usually you have to work your way up too, you can break into 6 digits a year and more.

remember a game designer is not the modeler, skinner or animator. its the guy that designs the games idea, story, and layout. they are the decision maker and manager over the project.

**01RaptorTA** · 10-04-2007, 03:28 PM

Thanks for that rundown ibanez. I'd thought about the later mentioned design firm as well, creating animations and such. I'd like to get into programming and then 3D design later. In any event, i plan on getting educated thoroughly in both fields that way my chances of being hired into a position is doubled. Me and a buddy have been working on an RPG for over 2 years now, he's started programming and i've started some designs for characters and such. We have the complete story down and organized. Hopefully that will set us apart, but who knows.