5.0 vs Ecoboost interesting results...

[justinmc978]

okay my flamesuit is on.. there is an old saying 'know your enemy' thats my excuse and I'm sticking to it...

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/04...8-engines.html

basically...



heres an overlay I made:




discuss?

[SiggyZ]

Those Ecoboost's are no joke.

[Aetos]

My friend has a 2011 f150 platinum ecoboost.. I love that truck

[1MileCrash]

i wouldn't be surprised to see a rwd ecoboost in the mustang within a couple years and if that's the case then gm needs to step up their game and get a turbo in the v6 camaro. this is also further proof that the adage "no replacement for displacement" is less and less true all the time. modern v6 engines can outperform v8s with the correct power adders.

[justinmc978]

anyone know what they cost relative to the 5.0?

[rschap1]

Back in the day....

the old SHOs used to rival the old 5.0s just about the same way..

[CJREX]

anyone know what they cost relative to the 5.0?

$750 upgrade from the 5.0

[rschap1]

anyone know what they cost relative to the 5.0?

Not quite apples to apples as one is a super crew and one is a supercab but this was in the article...

"We also made sure we had two 2011 F-150s to compare on the same day on K&N’s SuperFlow chassis dyno – an EcoBoost V-6 and a 5.0-liter V-8. Both trucks were 145-inch-wheelbase models with four-wheel drive and 3.73 rear axles. The EcoBoost F-150 ($41,300) was a SuperCab FX4 with a 6.5-foot cargo box and 4,650 miles on its odometer. The 5.0 F-150 ($40,715) was a SuperCrew with a 5.5-foot cargo box and 3,130 miles. All the tires were identical: Wrangler SR-A P275/65R18 114T."

[0rion]

i wouldn't be surprised to see a rwd ecoboost in the mustang within a couple years and if that's the case then gm needs to step up their game and get a turbo in the v6 camaro. this is also further proof that the adage "no replacement for displacement" is less and less true all the time. modern v6 engines can outperform v8s with the correct power adders.

and why the adage "there's no replacement for displacement" is still true and always will be. Power adder a v8 and see how close they are. You're comparing apples to oranges.

[FasstChevys]

this is also further proof that the adage "no replacement for displacement" is less and less true all the time. modern v6 engines can outperform v8s with the correct power adders.

I would disagree. There still is no replacement for displacement. If one has a power adder, then the other should too if you are going to bother to compare, period. This is absolutely proof of nothing.

[justinmc978]

I would disagree. There still is no replacement for displacement. If one has a power added, then the other should too if you are going to bother to compare, period. This is absolutely proof of nothing.

I would love to see this technology applied to the 5.0, we already know it can handle the boost,

edit: oh and $750 worth(the cost to upgrade to the EBV6) of factory enhancements could make the 5.0 more competitive with the EB, but certainly wouldn't make it anymore fuel efficient... which is another edge the EB has..

Ford did a good job of this, but if GM would get more serious with their Variable displacement technology I would much rather have a GEN IV/V v8 that can go into 4 or 6 cylinder mode at the driver's discretion, and have the NA power there if need be.

[1MileCrash]

think about it guys. the LZ9 3.9L v6 that GM has puts out 240hp and 240tq normally aspirated. only a few years ago the only other v6 GM had that would put those numbers out was the supercharged 3.8L. everyone always talked excitedly about how great the supercharged 3.8L was because it had the same power as a smallblock v8 but in a lighter, smaller, and more fuel efficient package. those engines are pushing the edge of what the LT v8s put out only a few years previous. and yeah so they aren't up as high as the LS series v8s were and are in the same model years.

the point being is that power output from v6 engines has dramatically increased over the years. probably the best case in point is the new DOHC 3.6L in the camaro putting out 310+hp. that's literally neck and neck with the LS1 engine. and the only reason that the v8 camaro puts out more power than the base models is because they upped the displacement of the v8...from 5.7L up to 6.2L moving the hp threshold up 100hp from 320hp to 420hp. 0.5L displacement increase resulted in 100 additional hp on relatively the same engine.

whereas they have been tinkering around with n/a v6 engines and have been able to take two engines that are roughly the same displacement (3.5L vs the 3.6L) and tweak the injection style, the style of the cam setup, and add vvt and make a 110hp increase while only increasing the displacement by 0.1L.

so i think that there is a LOT that can be done with v6 engines to make big power with or without power adders. yes of course a larger v8 engine will 9 times out of 10 make more power than a v6 will...but that's only because you have two extra cylinders. the 4.3L n/a v6 engines only made upwards of 200hp with the same geometry of the larger 5.7L sibling making up to 300hp. and comparable model year v6 engines of smaller displacement made virtually the same hp ratings as the 4.3L if not more in some cases (3.4L SFI, 3.4L DOHC, 3.8L n/a).

as much as they have been ridiculed, ford toyed with the 4.6L for almost 20 years and just by changing fuel setups and head setups was able to push the same basic engine from a pissy 200hp back in the early 90s to 320hp by 2000. no change in displacement...just changes in fuel and air delivery. i see ford as being a big leader when it comes to thinking outside the displacement box. yes they might languish behind from time to time because they don't move forward with a newer design...but they aren't continually just putting a bigger engine into the car to make more power. they are seeing what they can do with what they have to make more power.

then take the fact that ford is already pushing the envelope of their new 5.0L engine and getting 410+hp out of it compared to the camaro 6.2L making 430+hp. with a 1.2L disadvantage ford has used a different head setup and fuel setup to make almost the same power. in fact ford has outdone the 6.2L on the boss 302 by pushing the same 5.0L to 440+hp. so ford has proven that comparing v8s alone that "there's no replacement for displacement" is not all that accurate any longer.

GM would be wise to start investing in turbocharger setups for their v6 product line for their cars and trucks just as ford has done to remain competitive.

[FasstChevys]

think about it guys. the LZ9 3.9L v6 that GM has puts out 240hp and 240tq normally aspirated. only a few years ago the only other v6 GM had that would put those numbers out was the supercharged 3.8L. everyone always talked excitedly about how great the supercharged 3.8L was because it had the same power as a smallblock v8 but in a lighter, smaller, and more fuel efficient package. those engines are pushing the edge of what the LT v8s put out only a few years previous. and yeah so they aren't up as high as the LS series v8s were and are in the same model years.

the point being is that power output from v6 engines has dramatically increased over the years. probably the best case in point is the new DOHC 3.6L in the camaro putting out 310+hp. that's literally neck and neck with the LS1 engine. and the only reason that the v8 camaro puts out more power than the base models is because they upped the displacement of the v8...from 5.7L up to 6.2L moving the hp threshold up 100hp from 320hp to 420hp. 0.5L displacement increase resulted in 100 additional hp on relatively the same engine.

whereas they have been tinkering around with n/a v6 engines and have been able to take two engines that are roughly the same displacement (3.5L vs the 3.6L) and tweak the injection style, the style of the cam setup, and add vvt and make a 110hp increase while only increasing the displacement by 0.1L.

so i think that there is a LOT that can be done with v6 engines to make big power with or without power adders. yes of course a larger v8 engine will 9 times out of 10 make more power than a v6 will...but that's only because you have two extra cylinders. the 4.3L n/a v6 engines only made upwards of 200hp with the same geometry of the larger 5.7L sibling making up to 300hp. and comparable model year v6 engines of smaller displacement made virtually the same hp ratings as the 4.3L if not more in some cases (3.4L SFI, 3.4L DOHC, 3.8L n/a).

as much as they have been ridiculed, ford toyed with the 4.6L for almost 20 years and just by changing fuel setups and head setups was able to push the same basic engine from a pissy 200hp back in the early 90s to 320hp by 2000. no change in displacement...just changes in fuel and air delivery. i see ford as being a big leader when it comes to thinking outside the displacement box. yes they might languish behind from time to time because they don't move forward with a newer design...but they aren't continually just putting a bigger engine into the car to make more power. they are seeing what they can do with what they have to make more power.

then take the fact that ford is already pushing the envelope of their new 5.0L engine and getting 410+hp out of it compared to the camaro 6.2L making 430+hp. with a 1.2L disadvantage ford has used a different head setup and fuel setup to make almost the same power. in fact ford has outdone the 6.2L on the boss 302 by pushing the same 5.0L to 440+hp. so ford has proven that comparing v8s alone that "there's no replacement for displacement" is not all that accurate any longer.

GM would be wise to start investing in turbocharger setups for their v6 product line for their cars and trucks just as ford has done to remain competitive.

Wholly, WOW! I am not even going to attempt to break this long-winded response down, other than the few parts I'm going to put in bold, and respond to.

Bold text #1 - You're making it sound like that is all that they(LT1's) were/are capable of. That's just flat out rediculous.

Bold text #2 - "But that's only because you have two extra cylinders" ......................you don't say????

Come on now. All that bold part #2 does is reinforce what I've said.

Discussion = over.

[1MileCrash]

Wholly, WOW! I am not even going to attempt to break this long-winded response down, other than the few parts I'm going to put in bold, and respond to.

Bold text #1 - You're making it sound like that is all that they(LT1's) were/are capable of. That's just flat out rediculous.

Bold text #2 - "But that's only because you have two extra cylinders" ......................you don't say????

Come on now. All that bold part #2 does is reinforce what I've said.

Discussion = over.

it challenges your notions. GM has been steadily increasing the potential of their v6s for years now challenging what people thought a v6 could be power and performance wise and putting out numbers that were believed to only be possible out of a v8 previously. ford has been more successful in challenging displacement myths by getting more power out of smaller displacement v6s and v8s for years now.

[korndawg]

No replacement for displacement. Always.

[FasstChevys]

it challenges your notions. GM has been steadily increasing the potential of their v6s for years now challenging what people thought a v6 could be power and performance wise and putting out numbers that were believed to only be possible out of a v8 previously. ford has been more successful in challenging displacement myths by getting more power out of smaller displacement v6s and v8s for years now.

So, onward with your 5.0 vs. 6.2 arguement.

Do you honestly believe that ~420 horsepower is all that the 6.2 is capable of, naturally aspirated? Same thing as your LT1 statement.

I'm sorry. It's wrong.

Soon, Top Fuel will be switching over to V6's!!!! Imagine the faster times they'll have now!!! They better shorten the track from 1000 feet to 660!

[Packy]

No replacement for displacement. Always.

Sure there is. It is called boost or a button with a pill selection. It all falls on how you wanna make your power.

[korndawg]

Sure there is. It is called boost or a button with a pill selection. It all falls on how you wanna make your power.

All other things being equal then.....

[FasstChevys]

Sure there is. It is called boost or a button with a pill selection. It all falls on how you wanna make your power.

Eh - we all know that you know the nature of the arguement.

[korndawg]

I'd def take a boosted LSX any day over some god damn blown V6