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Thread: 351 Cleveland

  1. #1
    Awaiting Activation Liquifire's Avatar
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    351 Cleveland

    OK.....I have heard that the cleveland block is a Mid block.....it isn't a small block or a big block, is this true? Any details would be helpful

  2. #2
    meanZ97
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    i always thought that it was a small block.......So if its a "mid" block, why dont they just call it a "medium" block?

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    Awaiting Activation Liquifire's Avatar
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    The Windsor 351 is a small block, but I guess they are not the same block.

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    A Cleveland is a 351 block with cylinder heads that were built in...you guessed it, Cleveland, Ohio....they differ from Windsor heads and were prefered for performance back in the old days.....but times they have changed....Cleveland heads are no longer the ticket......soooo, to answer your question....a 351 Cleveland is a small block and does not fit into the 360/390/428/429/460 family of big blocks....I had a 351 Cleveland in my '72 Mustang back in 1979....it ran a 14.05 @ 100mph and was the fastest car at my Highschool.

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    Awaiting Activation Liquifire's Avatar
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    so the block and lower half are all identical to a windsor, the only difference is the heads? So you could turn a windsor into a cleveland with a cylinder head swap?

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    I don't know the answer to that for sure....but I'm of the belief that the 351 blocks are in fact the same......do you have a Cleveland project in the works?

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    so im the idiot coming in to ruin this thread, but what exactly is the difference between a small block and a big block? kinda new to american v8s, used to be into imports......

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    Quote Originally Posted by derrinx View Post
    what exactly is the difference between a small block and a big block? ......
    I always thought it had to do with external dimentions, however, it might have more to do with stuff like crankshaft bearing jurnal size or something....I really don't know....but I'd bet you could find the answer with Google.

  9. #9
    Awaiting Activation Liquifire's Avatar
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    actually it is the size of the external cast..........the dimensions of the internals determine the size of the cubic inches number.........all small blocks are of the same cast and all big blocks are of the same cast.....that is why you can't tell the difference between a 305 and a 350 externally.

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    the Clevland is a Big block, the heads on the Clevland are twice the size then the Windsor, then intake is alot bigger on the Clevland also, the Clevland was built in Clevland and the Windsor in Windsor.I am lookong for a 428 CJ for my R code 69 Mach 1 myself so if anyone knows where I can find on hook me up......
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    Last edited by rbob93; 08-02-2006 at 03:10 AM.

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    Senior Member Danger731's Avatar
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    351C was a small block. I had one in my 73 Cougar, fast car.

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    The easiest way to tell the difference between a Cleveland and a Windsor is that the water inlet goes through one intake manifold and the other does not (sorry, I can't remember which is which right now, but I'm pretty sure the Cleveland doesn't have the water inlet through the manifold). The Cleveland is visually bigger if I recall correctly and the Windsor is based on the 289 block, while the Cleveland was a slightly larger block (not a BIG block, per se) but not one created specifically for that displacment (sorry, I can't remember what displacement the block was originally made for). Also, there is another 351 which was the Modified (351M). I had one in a '77 F150 4x4 and it didn't require cats. The 351 Modified looks like a mini 428 with the valve covers. Ford loves 2-barrels on stuff under a 390 too. My '77 4x4 with a four speed, 3.50 gear, 6 inches of lift, and 35" tires got a whopping 6 mpg with that 2-barrel!!!! Wooooo-hooooo!

    Of the three 351's, the Windsor is the smallest block. The Cleveland and Modified (I think based on a 351C block but had a different bellhousing configuration [400/460?]) were bigger. BTW, police package cars that featured 351's up to the replacement of 351's/5.0's with the 4.6 were almost always 351 Windsors and required a better/larger radiator as they were more prone to overheat than Clevelands. I believe of all three only the 351C was available with either 2V or 4V heads. The 351 "modified" was aptly named because it was mixture of parts from different engines. It had good torque and worked well in a truck, but it sucked for high rpm HP. That was the forte of the 351C.

    But outside appearances are deceiving. A 4.6 2V on a stand looks bigger than any 351 I've ever seen. Bore vs. stroke being a big factor.
    Last edited by jad628; 08-02-2006 at 05:32 AM.

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    Here's what I know; the Cleveland is considered a big block, just take a look at one. The Cleveland heads have canted valves, like the big block Chevy. It shares nothing in common with the Windsor family (260/289/302/351). Back in the day (70's), the Cleveland was the motor of choice for the pro-stock Ford guy.
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    the cleveland is in fact a different block. it isnt technically a small block. only the windsors were. now, the cleveland was great because it had super crazy big valves and high flow heads stock. problems were the oiling and cooling of the inherent design of the block. yes people have used cleveland heads on a windsors with some cooling port modifications. ford did themselves on the boss 302.

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    down in it 310stanger's Avatar
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    its no longer worth it to adapt cleveland heads on a windsor engine ie 289,302,351 and its stroker variants because the aftermarket has a crap load of cyl heads for them that flow jus fine and dandy ie trickflow twisted wedge heads for example.

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    Are we talking mid 1960s for these engines - I can't recall what Falcon GT in australia had which engine but we used 302 and 351 CI blocks here for many years

    Mike

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    Ford did produce some high performance versions of the Cleveland; Boss351, 351CJ, at least I'm pretty sure

  19. #19
    down in it 310stanger's Avatar
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    there was the 351c 2v and 4v. the difference being carburetors and intake manifold i think cam, and heads.

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    Wow. Isn't his a GM site??? LOL I have a 1970 Mustang Mach1. It's a 351c. Now a 408 stroker. They are a small block and use a small block bell housing. Like others have said they are very different than a windsor.


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