2016 Dodge Viper ACR

**cam02ss** · 05-12-2015, 07:11 AM

I love how the best GM could do was give the Z06.R edition some bullshit vinyl graphics, interior stitching and commemorative dash plaque. They bastardized the Z06 name by appealing to the masses. This new ACR is going to beat up on it.

Dodge Viper ACR street-legal racer revealed | Fox News

**Blakbird24** · 05-12-2015, 07:30 AM

So what am I missing here? The added mechanicals simply bring it inline with the Z07 package - same brakes, upgraded suspension (though still no magnetic damping), and graphics and carbon. I don't see a big deal here.

Also, outside of a bigger charge cooling system, i'm at a loss for what GM could have possibly added to the Z06 to improve it.

Though I do love the looks...always been a big fan of the ACR. Still a bigger fan of the Z06, but if the "other" American Supercar is faster, i'm ok with that. It just means I need one more bay in my dream garage.

**Zinergy** · 05-12-2015, 07:55 AM

Looks like the ACR is still winning the down force competition.

**cam02ss** · 05-12-2015, 08:13 AM

The "lesser" packaged Vipers have been eating the new Z06 up. The ACR aero produces nearly a town of downforce at peak, it will be an animal on the track. Can the Z06 run multiple laps yet without overheating and going into limp mode? The regular Vipers already came with carbon fiber aero in the form of TA 1.0 and 2.0 cars. The TA, with its steel brakes, non-magnetic suspension also beat the ZR1 with carbon ceramic brakes, magnetic suspension, etc. My money is on the ACR.

Additionally, the Viper team added aggressive dive planes, a new front splitter, etc. You're telling me that GM couldn't have come up with something better than this as their "R" edition? The C5/C6 Z06s stayed true to the race fan base. GM, undoubtedly to save money and boost sales, rolled the GS,Z06 and ZR1 up in one platform to appeal to the masses. I.E. convertible automatics.

Are you a member on Corvetteforum? Join and go in the C7 Z06 section. It's embarrassing.

**FasstChevys** · 05-12-2015, 03:11 PM

I guess maybe I'm missing something............isn't the new ZO6 the best Corvette that GM has ever built? Please correct me if that is not accurate.

**5.0THIS** · 05-12-2015, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by cam02ss

The "lesser" packaged Vipers have been eating the new Z06 up. The ACR aero produces nearly a town of downforce at peak, it will be an animal on the track. Can the Z06 run multiple laps yet without overheating and going into limp mode? The regular Vipers already came with carbon fiber aero in the form of TA 1.0 and 2.0 cars. The TA, with its steel brakes, non-magnetic suspension also beat the ZR1 with carbon ceramic brakes, magnetic suspension, etc. My money is on the ACR.

Additionally, the Viper team added aggressive dive planes, a new front splitter, etc. You're telling me that GM couldn't have come up with something better than this as their "R" edition? The C5/C6 Z06s stayed true to the race fan base. GM, undoubtedly to save money and boost sales, rolled the GS,Z06 and ZR1 up in one platform to appeal to the masses. I.E. convertible automatics.

Are you a member on Corvetteforum? Join and go in the C7 Z06 section. It's embarrassing.

Werent you considering getting a new ZO6? I'm just curious why you have such a hate boner for it. I don't remember anyone on here hating on the Vipers. It does seem a bit silly to compare the ACR Viper to any of the new ZO6 vettes. The ACR clearly goes a lot further in the name of road course performance than even a stage 3 ZO6.

**cam02ss** · 05-13-2015, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by 5.0THIS

Werent you considering getting a new ZO6? I'm just curious why you have such a hate boner for it. I don't remember anyone on here hating on the Vipers. It does seem a bit silly to compare the ACR Viper to any of the new ZO6 vettes. The ACR clearly goes a lot further in the name of road course performance than even a stage 3 ZO6.

Hate boner or disappointment? Yes, had money down on the wait list before I cancelled. I'm a Corvette enthusiast. There is a discussion going on over on CF regarding an owner who was branded a troll because he posted about his new Z06 throwing a rod through the block with 6 miles on it. NineBall, the co-founder of LS1Tech and the previous/current owner of Vettes/Vipers alike best sums up what myself/others are thinking:

But the problem isn't that negative activity, the problem just might be the car itself. When the C6Z was unveiled, it was highly regarded and so far beyond other cars on the market, in terms of performance. The ZR1 wasn't as epic in release, but was still popular due to the various upgraded parts it had. The C7Z release has been somewhat polarizing, people are finding issues with weight gains, diluted Z06 branding, performance and tracking heat issues. You'll find the most critics here are actually other Corvette enthusiasts, not "trolls". Could this drama be because of the issues being found with the car itself? Just maybe?

There are aspects that I like about the new Z06, but overall? Disappointing. Especially when something like the ACR comes out and Chevrolet releases a sticker package with color matching rings around the wheels. C'mon man.

**Blakbird24** · 05-13-2015, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by cam02ss

Hate boner or disappointment? Yes, had money down on the wait list before I cancelled. I'm a Corvette enthusiast. There is a discussion going on over on CF regarding an owner who was branded a troll because he posted about his new Z06 throwing a rod through the block with 6 miles on it. NineBall, the co-founder of LS1Tech and the previous/current owner of Vettes/Vipers alike best sums up what myself/others are thinking:

Gotta agree with 5.0 on this, i've seen you bashing the Z06 pretty much wherever it's mentioned. It's hard to understand because if you have the money for a new Z06, you've got the money for a new Viper, which you clearly like better. So, just buy the Viper. Or, realize that despite the fact that the Viper appears to have won this generation, the Z06 is still among the fastest most kickass cars on the planet, and be happy with it.

Zoom out a bit, and you'll see that this is a win-win situation. You get to choose between two of the most awesome cars on the road right now...and the rest of us are thinking "how the hell can that be a bad thing"?

Originally Posted by cam02ss

There are aspects that I like about the new Z06, but overall? Disappointing. Especially when something like the ACR comes out and Chevrolet releases a sticker package with color matching rings around the wheels. C'mon man.

Now this I don't believe...there's no way you can be a fan of any GM vehicle and be surprised when GM releases a "special edition" that is nothing more than cosmetic.

As for Nineball's comment:

But the problem isn't that negative activity, the problem just might be the car itself. When the C6Z was unveiled, it was highly regarded and so far beyond other cars on the market, in terms of performance. The ZR1 wasn't as epic in release, but was still popular due to the various upgraded parts it had. The C7Z release has been somewhat polarizing, people are finding issues with weight gains, diluted Z06 branding, performance and tracking heat issues. You'll find the most critics here are actually other Corvette enthusiasts, not "trolls". Could this drama be because of the issues being found with the car itself? Just maybe?

Or is it perhaps they've simply reached the limit of what's possible on the current platform layout. We're pretty positive they are testing a mid-engine platform at this point. We've heard lots of talk from GM engineers about the ever-increasing challenges and limitations posed by the Vette's traditional design. Perhaps they've simply hit the ceiling?

**theorangeguy** · 05-13-2015, 05:29 AM

The new ZO6 has some serious heat issues...until they get that fixed, the nice suspension and aero packaging isnt going to help much. They are still amazing cars, I just dont see how that got over looked...hell, even the C6 ZO6 is known to have some pretty serious head issues. I actually prefer the C6 ZO6 right now for some reason...call me crazy but I do.

With all of that said, I'd still own either one if I had permission to go buy one

**cam02ss** · 05-13-2015, 08:22 AM

Blakbird24 Gotta agree with 5.0 on this, i've seen you bashing the Z06 pretty much wherever it's mentioned. It's hard to understand because if you have the money for a new Z06, you've got the money for a new Viper, which you clearly like better. So, just buy the Viper. Or, realize that despite the fact that the Viper appears to have won this generation, the Z06 is still among the fastest most kickass cars on the planet, and be happy with it.

Zoom out a bit, and you'll see that this is a win-win situation. You get to choose between two of the most awesome cars on the road right now...and the rest of us are thinking "how the hell can that be a bad thing"?

You are correct, it is a win-win situation, and I have been critical of the Z06. That being said- if you were going to drop $110k cash down for a toy, would you be critical of flaws such as shoddy paint, interior trim pieces coming apart, over heating/engine issues OR, would you just chalk that up as the price for cheap(er) bargain power? From my point of view, I shouldn't have to add cooling mods to a $100+k "track capable car". I may end up buying the Z06, many first model year cars have bugs that are usually worked out by the manufacturer.

Now this I don't believe...there's no way you can be a fan of any GM vehicle and be surprised when GM releases a "special edition" that is nothing more than cosmetic.

I'm not surprised, however with the achievements that these companies have made over the past decade, coupled with the seriousness in which they take performance now- I had dared to hope.

As for Nineball's comment:

Or is it perhaps they've simply reached the limit of what's possible on the current platform layout. We're pretty positive they are testing a mid-engine platform at this point. We've heard lots of talk from GM engineers about the ever-increasing challenges and limitations posed by the Vette's traditional design. Perhaps they've simply hit the ceiling?

There are two sides to this coin. The first being that yes, they have repeatedly said they have reached max potential with this design, simply throwing more power at the platform wouldn't yield greater performance results,etc. Perhaps that's why Dodge hasn't thrown more power at the Viper as well. The flip side is that GM has been dabbling with a mid-engine platform since the 60s. Maybe now is finally the time, we're going to find out one way or the other.

**cam02ss** · 05-13-2015, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by theorangeguy

The new ZO6 has some serious heat issues...until they get that fixed, the nice suspension and aero packaging isnt going to help much. They are still amazing cars, I just dont see how that got over looked...hell, even the C6 ZO6 is known to have some pretty serious head issues. I actually prefer the C6 ZO6 right now for some reason...call me crazy but I do.

With all of that said, I'd still own either one if I had permission to go buy one

Maybe that's the way it'll be then. Looking back, the C6 Z06 had head issues, was known to drop valves. The C7 Z06 will be known for having heat issues.

**theorangeguy** · 05-13-2015, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by cam02ss

Maybe that's the way it'll be then. Looking back, the C6 Z06 had head issues, was known to drop valves. The C7 Z06 will be known for having heat issues.

every car has problems...vipers used to be notorious for having the hottest drivers seat and floor board out of any car in the world but they fixed that. I'm sure if I dug into it I could find something wrong with the new Viper as well...I like them both but right now I would probably lean towards the viper myself if I was looking at buying a car in that price range or performance level. My ONLY complaint would be that the new ZO6 has a targa top and the viper doesnt.

I know some SRT's have exhaust issues so maybe thats the weak point? I havent looked into it for the viper tho.

**Blakbird24** · 05-13-2015, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by cam02ss

You are correct, it is a win-win situation, and I have been critical of the Z06. That being said- if you were going to drop $110k cash down for a toy, would you be critical of flaws such as shoddy paint, interior trim pieces coming apart, over heating/engine issues OR, would you just chalk that up as the price for cheap(er) bargain power? From my point of view, I shouldn't have to add cooling mods to a $100+k "track capable car". I may end up buying the Z06, many first model year cars have bugs that are usually worked out by the manufacturer.

If i'm paying $110k for a car that rivals the performance of $500k cars, i'd be rather forgiving of little details. Alot of these details are highly dependent on the person viewing them. I'm a painter by hobby, so to me there are very few factory cars that come with what I would even consider "acceptable" paint jobs...and they seem to get worse with every new generation.

As for the interior - with each generation, GM interiors improve by leaps and bounds...they are at this point better than the majority of their competitors. But when you are getting $500k-worth of performance in a $100k package, SOMETHING has to suffer. It's always been the interior from my experience. That said, i've been in the new Viper, and it's no better in this department. That's been the biggest disappointment in my eyes with Dodge's new vehicles...the quality of their interiors is just not in the same league as the appearance. Also, IF i'm buying a Vette, interior quality is VERY low on my priority list. In real life, it's higher, so that's why I went with the Cadillac V-Series. I mean, that's what these different divisions are for. Chevy is cheap quality, low feature transportation. Buick is a step up in features and extras, and Cadillac is the pinnacle, a complete package offering high quality mechanicals and top notch features and materials. There is a Cadillac two-seater slated for release next year in fact. That's the Vette-in-a-tux that you might be looking for.

**cam02ss** · 05-13-2015, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Blakbird24

If i'm paying $110k for a car that rivals the performance of $500k cars, i'd be rather forgiving of little details. Alot of these details are highly dependent on the person viewing them. I'm a painter by hobby, so to me there are very few factory cars that come with what I would even consider "acceptable" paint jobs...and they seem to get worse with every new generation.

As for the interior - with each generation, GM interiors improve by leaps and bounds...they are at this point better than the majority of their competitors. But when you are getting $500k-worth of performance in a $100k package, SOMETHING has to suffer. It's always been the interior from my experience. That said, i've been in the new Viper, and it's no better in this department. That's been the biggest disappointment in my eyes with Dodge's new vehicles...the quality of their interiors is just not in the same league as the appearance. Also, IF i'm buying a Vette, interior quality is VERY low on my priority list. In real life, it's higher, so that's why I went with the Cadillac V-Series. I mean, that's what these different divisions are for. Chevy is cheap quality, low feature transportation. Buick is a step up in features and extras, and Cadillac is the pinnacle, a complete package offering high quality mechanicals and top notch features and materials. There is a Cadillac two-seater slated for release next year in fact. That's the Vette-in-a-tux that you might be looking for.

I'll keep that in mind. I also want to see what happens with a Zora/ZR1 Vette.

**Blakbird24** · 05-13-2015, 09:30 AM

Also keep in mind GM's history of cars/updates that look underwhelming on paper and end up being really impressive -

- The 3.6l turbo in the GN/TTA
- The "320hp" LS1
- The ZL1 that looked like it was going to get raped by the 2013 GT500, but ended up doing an admirable job keeping up and actually even winning a few comparos
- The Z28 with "only" 505hp that just annihilates everything on a circuit

So the moral of the story is, you never know until you know. I don't expect that the ACR will be much faster than the TA, as we are just too far into the performance stratosphere at this point, well past the point of diminishing returns. Something as simple as a computer update could show up and fix all the Z06's performance issues. Or, more likely as you alluded to, a next-year revision.

**Zinergy** · 05-13-2015, 09:40 AM

I'm sorry but not being able to make it through half of a track day with 110k performance car doesn't seem like a small detail. In that sense you aren't getting the same performance as the 500k cars.

**Blakbird24** · 05-13-2015, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

I'm sorry but not being able to make it through half of a track day with 110k performance car doesn't seem like a small detail. In that sense you aren't getting the same performance as the 500k cars.

That wasn't on my "small detail" list. Nor was it on cam02ss' list.

Edit - on second look, it was on his list. But not on mine. I'd just upgrade the charge cooling system, just like I did back when I had my STS-V. They had the exact same problem. $500 fixed it.

**Zinergy** · 05-13-2015, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Blakbird24

That wasn't on my "small detail" list. Nor was it on cam02ss' list.

Edit - on second look, it was on his list. But not on mine. I'd just upgrade the charge cooling system, just like I did back when I had my STS-V. They had the exact same problem. $500 fixed it.

Do you think that is an acceptable response from GM? I wouldn't. GM should be recalling the cooling system and maybe they will.

**theorangeguy** · 05-13-2015, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

Do you think that is an acceptable response from GM? I wouldn't. GM should be recalling the cooling system and maybe they will.

they would have to recall the Z28 as well if they crossed that bridge even tho the cars are completely different...the Z28 has over heating issues as well even though its not blown.

**GTP231** · 05-13-2015, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Blakbird24

That wasn't on my "small detail" list. Nor was it on cam02ss' list.

Edit - on second look, it was on his list. But not on mine. I'd just upgrade the charge cooling system, just like I did back when I had my STS-V. They had the exact same problem. $500 fixed it.

It wasn't a small detail on his list. Sounds more like it is to you though