'00 Z28 Vs. '05 Charger

[Street Lethal]

However, I can tell you without question that generally an old Charger even with a well tuned and well driven hemi or 440-6bbl is only a mid to low 13 second car in stock trim.

What exactly is the point here though? Considering the average suspension and brake design back then... it would have been ludicrous for the auto makers to allow a low twelve second Charger to be released to the public.

As for, "a well tuned and well driven hemi or 440-6bbl only (emphasis added) being a mid to low 13 second car in stock trim", do you know how foolish that sounds? "Stock trim", give me a freaking break. Mopar could have easily had the Charger running in the elevens from the factory (they didn't, but you're honestly going to sit there and deny that they could have)?

Now, today you can buy a new Charger that will do high 13's in R/T trim stock, or an SRT8 that will suck the chrome off an old Charger...

...you're kidding, right? A late model Charger with a cross-ram Hemi would tear any "new" SRT8 a new one. Go ahead, ask me how I know.

[lieu910]

What exactly is the point here though? Considering the average suspension and brake design back then... it would have been ludicrous for the auto makers to allow a low twelve second Charger to be released to the public.

As for, "a well tuned and well driven hemi or 440-6bbl only (emphasis added) being a mid to low 13 second car in stock trim", do you know how foolish that sounds? "Stock trim", give me a freaking break. Mopar could have easily had the Charger running in the elevens from the factory (they didn't, but you're honestly going to sit there and deny that they could have)?



...you're kidding, right? A late model Charger with a cross-ram Hemi would tear any "new" SRT8 a new one. Go ahead, ask me how I know.

Well first, Chargers did not come with the cross ram intake. Cross ram intakes were put on the race hemis with 12:5:1 compression, etc. Race hemis were never an option on any Charger. All hemi Chargers were street hemis with in-line dual quads. In a stock vs stock 1/4 mile shootout you're kidding yourseldf if you think the SRT8 Charger won't win.


Where to start. Okay, I was not denying anything about what Mopar could have done, that's subjective and who knows? What I was pointing out was that it's inaccurate to say a new Charger cannot perform like a classic Charger. On that note, what I said was accurate. I've owned classic musclecars for the past 10 years or so and it's been an all consuming hobby and a passion. I have spent alot of time around the pure stock drags and have made some good friends. What I am saying here isn't anything the guys I know disagree with and is based on what I have SEEN, not read in a magazine.

If you don't like my choice of words (stock trim), fine, call it wahtever you like. My point was this, take a street hemi or 440-6bbl Charger as is the topic in this case. Put a good tune on it and a good driver behind the wheel and a mid - low 13 second 1/4 mile is most likely what you'll get. If that sounds totally ridiculous to you, c'mon up to Michigan for the pure stocks and see it with your own eyes. 383's are a bunch slower than a new Charger R/T and there's no shame in that, and I sure was being critical, just honest. THe point is again that a new Charger will do everything a classic Charger will do and more. Again, no shame in that, they're both great cars. My rebutal to the claim that a new Charger is a "Joke" compared to the old one is right on. You may not like the new ones, that's subjective, but to say a new one cannot perform like the classis is completely inaccurate.

Now, the cross ram hemi was the race hemi, not the street hemi. I don't doubt a healthy race hemi could beat an SRT8. No doubt Mopar could have built an 11 second Charger back then. They actually did build cars like that available to the public, i.e. the Hemi Dart and Hemi Baaracuda. Those were legitimate 10 second cars with the race hemi, and lightened body etc. I was not knocking the old stuff. I love them and am pretty passionate about older musclecars. I've owned about 6 in the last 10 years.

[fredg369]

I love this.....Now its GM vs Chrysler......LOL
Is Ford out of the picture these days?....even with a new stang on the street.
Damm i do miss the f-bodies.
Remember the yrs...lets say 1985 to 1993...They were great for street cars..(in my years 30 to 35 age group)...Ya they did'nt make great HP...say 200 to 250Hp factory....but it was FUN
The line -up

Grand National
Cyclone
Typhoon
Camaro...RS....Z28....IROC...305-350 Tune port injection....
Firebird.....GTA.....TTA.....Trans Am
Corvette
Mustang.....GT....LX....The 5.0L
Mercury Caprie.....with the 302 5.0L......nice sleeper...lol
Eagle Talon TSI....
Doge Daytona IROC.....lol....what a joke.
3000gt twin turbo
300z twin turbo
Someother turbo cars that made nice numbers

Then you always had the guys with the older 70's Camaro or TA's with killer engines..

Now what do you have?
Charger....hemi...SRT4,6,8,10
300C
magnum
neon....lol
impala
Colbolt
corvette
mustang
Big Ass pick-up trucks..( Sil SS....srt-10 ram....Harley Davison F250)
SUV's...
Tuner cars.....that I can't get into...don't see the thing with the big fart sounding muffler.....Thats just me..no offense.

All you hear now is.....Nitrous....or....supercharger.....when I was younger this stuff was for a selected few....those with money and those with the no-how....now it seems eveyone is putting these things on.

I lost track of the point I was trying to make but I'm tired of hearing
....Honda...Toyota...Acura....Subaru...Lexus....BM W...Mbenz....Audi....Nissan
American muscle is turning into american (I wish I was japanese tuner car).
Just isn't as fun as it was before.
Like the tag said on that 2002 F-body.....Last of the Breed......
This is all IMO.
Sorry for the long post it just got me thinking......

[jkksxy1]

a charger RT is rated at a 14.1 and the SRT8 at 13.56 acording to car and driver and road and track , motor trend say a 13.1 for th SRT8 though and a 14.3 for th RT but none of these times are in the 12's stock though, with a few bolt on's they would probably make some really good power I would asume they are very restricted just like the new mustangs.

[lieu910]

a charger RT is rated at a 14.1 and the SRT8 at 13.56 acording to car and driver and road and track , motor trend say a 13.1 for th SRT8 though and a 14.3 for th RT but none of these times are in the 12's stock though, with a few bolt on's they would probably make some really good power I would asume they are very restricted just like the new mustangs.

Look at the video Marc87Gn posted. Shows an SRT8 clocking a high 12. A few websites I checked out showed timeslips in the 12's with stockers. Not saying they all do that, but it seems possible.

[Street Lethal]

Well first, Chargers did not come with the cross ram intake. Cross ram intakes were put on the race hemis with 12:5:1 compression, etc. Race hemis were never an option on any Charger....

Irrelevant. You completely missed my point. I was not arguing about which one being faster from the factory, or in this case, "stock trim"... I was merely pointing out that the name "Charger" was in fact synonymous with the concept of muscle, back in the day.

You already agreed with me that Dodge could have easily made a low twelve second Charger for the ordinary average person, and I already pointed out that they didn't, literally (this is the whole concept behind Rodding, is it not)? 'Buy a car for a competitive price, make it faster on you're own'....

All hemi Chargers were street hemis with in-line dual quads. In a stock vs stock 1/4 mile shootout you're kidding yourseldf if you think the SRT8 Charger won't win.

Again, I'm not referring to "stock trim", you are. As for kidding myself, sorry, but, I don't have to. I've been racing here in Englishtown for a very long time myself, and have seen plenty of non cross-rammed, "in-line dual quad" 440 Chargers, running in the nine's. I'm not too sure where you race, or you're tuning ability.... but try not to assume that the rest of the world is just as limited as yourself (in regards to tuning know how).

Where to start. Okay, I was not denying anything about what Mopar could have done, that's subjective and who knows? What I was pointing out was that it's inaccurate to say a new Charger cannot perform like a classic Charger.

Well, if this is what you were implying.... then I absolutely agree here.

On that note, what I said was accurate. I've owned classic musclecars for the past 10 years or so and it's been an all consuming hobby and a passion. I have spent alot of time around the pure stock drags and have made some good friends.

Who hasn't? My cousins have been running their own engine shop for nearly thirty years. I've made some very good friends myself after all these years of dragging.

What I am saying here isn't anything the guys I know disagree with and is based on what I have SEEN, not read in a magazine.

Oh please....

If you don't like my choice of words (stock trim), fine, call it wahtever you like. My point was this, take a street hemi or 440-6bbl Charger as is the topic in this case. Put a good tune on it and a good driver behind the wheel and a mid - low 13 second 1/4 mile is most likely what you'll get.

Perhaps with you're tuning ability, not ours.

If that sounds totally ridiculous to you, c'mon up to Michigan for the pure stocks and see it with your own eyes.

No need to c'mon up to Michigan, as I see faster passes being made every single year, right here. Even the Chargers in the FAST classes are running faster than you're claim. Oh wait, but they're not in "stock trim" though. Well, not entirely, that is...

My rebutal to the claim that a new Charger is a "Joke" compared to the old one is right on. You may not like the new ones, that's subjective, but to say a new one cannot perform like the classis is completely inaccurate.

Hmm, did I even say that? My arguement is that the new Chargers are not necessarily "faster" than the old one's. The old Chargers' handling and braking were serious issues (in comparison to today's standards), and I thought I already made that clear.

... never said I didn't like'em, either.

Now, the cross ram hemi was the race hemi, not the street hemi.

Yes, I'm already aware of that... but thanks for taking the time to point that out. Now back to our original broadcast.

I don't doubt a healthy race hemi could beat an SRT8. No doubt Mopar could have built an 11 second Charger back then.

They could have built a ten second screamer for that matter, who cares. All I was eluding to was the fact that they "could have", but chose not to.

[lieu910]

Irrelevant. You completely missed my point. I was not arguing about which one being faster from the factory, or in this case, "stock trim"... I was merely pointing out that the name "Charger" was in fact synonymous with the concept of muscle, back in the day.

You already agreed with me that Dodge could have easily made a low twelve second Charger for the ordinary average person, and I already pointed out that they didn't, literally (this is the whole concept behind Rodding, is it not)? 'Buy a car for a competitive price, make it faster on you're own'....



Again, I'm not referring to "stock trim", you are. As for kidding myself, sorry, but, I don't have to. I've been racing here in Englishtown for a very long time myself, and have seen plenty of non cross-rammed, "in-line dual quad" 440 Chargers, running in the nine's. I'm not too sure where you race, or you're tuning ability.... but try not to assume that the rest of the world is just as limited as yourself (in regards to tuning know how).



Well, if this is what you were implying.... then I absolutely agree here.



Who hasn't? My cousins have been running their own engine shop for nearly thirty years. I've made some very good friends myself after all these years of dragging.



Oh please....



Perhaps with you're tuning ability, not ours.



No need to c'mon up to Michigan, as I see faster passes being made every single year, right here. Even the Chargers in the FAST classes are running faster than you're claim. Oh wait, but they're not in "stock trim" though. Well, not entirely, that is...



Hmm, did I even say that? My arguement is that the new Chargers are not necessarily "faster" than the old one's. The old Chargers' handling and braking were serious issues (in comparison to today's standards), and I thought I already made that clear.

... never said I didn't like'em, either.



Yes, I'm already aware of that... but thanks for taking the time to point that out. Now back to our original broadcast.



They could have built a ten second screamer for that matter, who cares. All I was eluding to was the fact that they "could have", but chose not to.

Glad you see my point and agree.

Despite my "poor tuning" abilities, I could never get my 69 440-6 Roadrunner that dyno'd with 400hp at the flywheel after a rebuild to stock specs into the 9's. Maybe you could show me how to put just the right curve in the timing, and the right set of jets and springs to get me there since I have nary a clue.

Glad you have heard of FAST - There are some 10 second "stock appearing" (hence the name Factoy Appearing Stock Tires). Oh sure they are bored and stroked to the 9's and the heads are worked and everything is extrude honed, etc. etc. By the way, FAST is a completely different event than pure stocks. Now why would something like that be faster than stock?


Thanks for the enlightenment oh wise one

I'll let you spin your wheels some more and have the last word. Can't wait to hear how you can tune an Escort into the 11's.

[Orange99z28]

lol it'd better not be, i'm relying on this place for some good info


edit: wow, i thought there was only one page, but i guess it is coming to that(last post on 1st page) wtf?! this is the internet people, try to gain knowledge, not slam everyone who "crosses" you from 1000 miles away

[MikeSomething]

You know, muscle cars back in the 1970's were awesome. The ones now are really awesome, but for something to have the name "Charger"... I dunno I just figured a modern Charger to do a hell of alot better...Just kinda disappointed. No big deal guys...

[Street Lethal]

Despite my "poor tuning" abilities, I could never get my 69 440-6 Roadrunner that dyno'd with 400hp at the flywheel after a rebuild to stock specs into the 9's. Maybe you could show me how to put just the right curve in the timing, and the right set of jets and springs to get me there since I have nary a clue.

You're arguement is plastic, as whatever strength you have left in you're pathetic attempt of discussion, is to twist words around to justify a transparent point. Being confused in a narrowing world, I must say, you'd make a very good politician.

Glad you have heard of FAST - There are some 10 second "stock appearing". By the way, FAST is a completely different event than pure stocks.

Are you having difficulty reading text? How many times must I reiterate? I never said a stock "vintage" Charger can take on an SRT8. Did I even refer to "stock" in this entire thread? You're assuming, and you know very well what happens when one ass-u-mes now, don't you?

I'll let you spin your wheels some more and have the last word. Can't wait to hear how you can tune an Escort into the 11's.

Maturity comes with experience, not age. Apparently, the concept of maturity must have flown right by you (as do most cars, I'm sure). There's really no need for me to resort to a low blow to embellish on how foolish you sound, as you seem to be doing such a very good job of that all by yourself...

[lieu910]

You're arguement is plastic, as whatever strength you have left in you're pathetic attempt of discussion, is to twist words around to justify a transparent point. Being confused in a narrowing world, I must say, you'd make a very good politician.



Are you having difficulty reading text? How many times must I reiterate? I never said a stock "vintage" Charger can take on an SRT8. Did I even refer to "stock" in this entire thread? You're assuming, and you know very well what happens when one ass-u-mes now, don't you?



Maturity comes with experience, not age. Apparently, the concept of maturity must have flown right by you (as do most cars, I'm sure). There's really no need for me to resort to a low blow to embellish on how foolish you sound, as you seem to be doing such a very good job of that all by yourself...

I'll give you this to ponder. This all began by your choice to launch a personal attack based on my choice of words "stock trim". You didn't bother asking for clarification on what I was driving at, you just launched into a flame. Yet, you seem to feel entitled to declare yourself mature? I'll take accountability for even indulging you and responding when really what I should have done is ignore your initial insults.

In the interest of maintaining a "friendly" forum, I apologize to the members of this forum for even entertaining your flame.

All the best - Lieu

[Herloss]

Gentleman - If I am not mistaken, this IS the LS1.com forum which means like me, you surely MUST admire the F-bodies and certainly Corvette. (GTO honorable mention). I like some of ALL vehicles on the road, admittingly though, few ricers. How does one who just came to this discussion lay it on the line .... tactfully? Well, the Dodge Charger is (in my opinion boys) nice, but it's not a T/A or Camaro..... It's cool but it has four doors.... It's muscular but it's not the General Lee..... The point is the "cool factor" people use when looking at a car. I know a guy who has a 'Vette. He drives it through the parades and mature people love it, some kids are like "cool car". Some. I drive my convertible WS6 around and kids point and generally say "AWESOME CAR"!... Same with my Z28..... There is something about a sporty looking car that has the cool factor evident to it no matter what kind of quarter mile it can do, some never have that no matter what laughing gas does to it.
Meet a girl in the bar, or socially, tell her you have a Trans Am or a Z28 (or just say convertible) and you have made an impression. Tell her you have a "whompem Stompem" 300C and she is like "yeah, ok"......

It's the car, boys, chicks dig the cars. Trust me, this much I can tell...... Weird thing is it's a pickup truck that here in Indiana the country girls love. I have a Dodge Ram 4X4 and sometimes the Z28 cannot hold a candle to that name to a country girl.

let's all just celebrate (those who have them) what we own: THE F-bodies GM -their Great Mistake killed.......... and play with the lesser models on OUR roads!

Truce?

[clemsondave]

lmao, where in the world can you go tell a girl at a bar that you own a Z28 or a T/A and you will impress her? You better bring more to the table than that!

[toneloc60]

First off, Go TIGERS! Second, clemsondave, (I'm going to play to the stereotypes here) any bar near a trailor park.

[stangereater]

Nice kill i have been looking for one as well plently of stockers do run in the high 12s but they also run them on drag radials i think stock for stock it would be a damn close race, but it's still a MOPAR.

[Herloss]

Interestingly, my whole point was how the Trans Am and Camaro are not cars that every McDonalds Floor Sweeping kid owns - and more about how they are what they are: Fast, fun, in some cases pretty damn cool. I also see where it would be easy to get into an argument where a couple of you two who cannot (not sure why) relate to talking to a female and mentioning "I have a convertible Trans Am" and you cannot imagine hearing her say "cool, can I ride in it"? Um, that is a scenerio or actually it has happened so I speak of it. I am NOT talking about walking into a bar and my whole "pick up lines" consist of my owning a T/A or Z. While the same situation would not (surely not) end the same when you tell someone in any situation that you have a 2003 Grand Am ---- uh, yeah, that is cool. Do you guys have F-bodies and consequently may think they are cool or are you here to berate those of us who DO and who like them? I could own a much "nicer" car - hell, five times the price of these but I like THESE - just as I am NOT speaking of life in the city of Chicago, where a BMW or Mercedes is more, "cool". Trailer Park? That is an experience I cannot speak of or relate to - but, if anyone else has some experiences there (do you?) that you want to share.....................

[clemsondave]

Wow, bit defensive aren't we??? We are just messing with ya!

I would, though, be glad to compare notes on picking up women if you want a contest. And I have never used my car. IMHO, women are not impressed by what kind of car you drive (especially a Camaro or T/A). I have a SS Convertible, but have never had a girl come up to me and say 'nice ride, wanna f__?' Even if you have ,say, a Lambo, most women would say you are too shallow if approach them with "hey babe wanna ride in my car?"

But hey if it works for you After all, who cares how you get em?

[The Rookie]

Can't we all just get along!!??!! Guys Fast cars are fast cars no matter what brand we buy. Most of us here just happen to like F-Bodies or Vettes. But who cares if someone else likes chrysler or ford??? I don't. And besides.... Ford, Chrysler and GM cars in stock trim can always be made faster. At least you aren't driving a yugo! Plus.... There is always someone out there faster than You in what ever brand! Just ask the Red Supra in Austin, that blew my doors off! Or the Z-06 that just walked me on the highway the other day! Damn those new z-06's are fast!!!

[clemsondave]

O ok, let's all get along and hold hands while we are posting in the 'kill stories' section.

Hey it's all in fun!

[Herloss]

Yup, in fun.