ms4 dyno

**35thz28camaro** · 06-03-2008, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by QtrWhore

how is the driveability on the MS4?

i love it! it drives really good i dont see why everyone keeps saying diiveability will suck with this cam? it is just as good as stock other than some bucking, put it in drive and the bucking goes away. now that it is tuned it never stalls. and it never stops pulling!!!

**Johns00Z28** · 06-03-2008, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by 35thz28camaro

i love it! it drives really good i dont see why everyone keeps saying diiveability will suck with this cam? it is just as good as stock other than some bucking, put it in drive and the bucking goes away. now that it is tuned it never stalls. and it never stops pulling!!!

How does it pull down low or do you not know due to the high stall and gears?

**35thz28camaro** · 06-03-2008, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Johns00Z28

How does it pull down low or do you not know due to the high stall and gears?

with my stall and gears really good but i did upgrade my stall to a 4000

**Johns00Z28** · 06-03-2008, 06:59 PM

Wow that's pretty crazy. I'm taking it this is not your daily driver??

**35thz28camaro** · 06-04-2008, 02:44 AM

it was but i just got a honda civic

**Firebirdjones** · 06-04-2008, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by Johns00Z28

How does it pull down low or do you not know due to the high stall and gears?

Is that a trick question???

**02Sweet** · 06-04-2008, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by 35thz28camaro

with my stall and gears really good but i did upgrade my stall to a 4000

are you still on the stock 10 bolt just did the gear swap out?
Also did you have to do anything special to put the MS4 in?

**Johns00Z28** · 06-04-2008, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Is that a trick question???

haha no it wasn't meant to be. I've never driven in a car w/ a stall so I'm just curious how it works. I'm thinking w/ that high of a stall and gears and cam he pretty much just bypasses the lower speeds and goes right to balls to the walls...lol

**Firebirdjones** · 06-04-2008, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Johns00Z28

haha no it wasn't meant to be. I've never driven in a car w/ a stall so I'm just curious how it works. I'm thinking w/ that high of a stall and gears and cam he pretty much just bypasses the lower speeds and goes right to balls to the walls...lol

Thats exactly the idea. If you get into the larger camshafts like the MS4 here,,,,you will without a dought need a loose converter and more rearend gear. The larger camshafts move the usable power band higher up in the rpm range to explain things in the most simplest of terms.

With that said,,,most medium to large camshaft upgrades really require more rear gear and a loose converter,,,,otherwise the car would be a pooch,,,not to mention with a tight stock converter the car would struggle to idle at all...

Anyone with an auto car that is considering a camshaft upgrade should also figure in the cost of a stall speed as well, both go hand in hand.

**35thz28camaro** · 06-04-2008, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by 02Sweet

are you still on the stock 10 bolt just did the gear swap out?
Also did you have to do anything special to put the MS4 in?

yes still a 10 bolt. no nothing special, just like anyother cam swap

**ksupersport02** · 06-05-2008, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Not true. I've had various flowmaster kits, different pipe diameters, various style mufflers,,,and compared them with magnaflow, spintech, loudmouth one and two, mufflex, dynomax, Edelbrock, and a couple other mufflers I can't recall,,,but I have a spread sheet with them all listed and the things we found.

To make a long story short,,,as long as the pipe design and diameter stayed the same,,,,the car didn't care what muffler was hanging on it. There was no noticable difference in the cars performance AT ALL!

The only time we saw a change was the removal of the 3 inch piping and installing a 4 inch mufflex system,,,in which case the car picked up another tenth and 2 mph. Even that system didn't care whether it had a flowmaster or a spintech on it,,,,car performed the same.

I have had various designs of the flowmaster as well, and currently run the super 40's,,,,found nothing in that respect either.

In the end we found that 99% of your exhaust gains will come from the pipe diameter, design, mandrel bends, X or H pipe etc.....

Probably spent more than $3,000 on this little experiment to find that it's really just the sound that you prefer when choosing a muffler...

If you dont mind me asking, what muffler gave you the best sound,, NO RASP at WOT. I did Heads/CAM/LT and i already had the LM original. Its freakin obnoxious now.. To Raspy at WOT.. Need to add a muffler back in place of the LM bulge.. Any suggestions, i still want the car to sound f'in mean, but not freakin annoying.. KD

**Firebirdjones** · 06-05-2008, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by ksupersport02

If you dont mind me asking, what muffler gave you the best sound,, NO RASP at WOT. I did Heads/CAM/LT and i already had the LM original. Its freakin obnoxious now.. To Raspy at WOT.. Need to add a muffler back in place of the LM bulge.. Any suggestions, i still want the car to sound f'in mean, but not freakin annoying.. KD

Thats a tough question to answer. Everyones idea of rasp, cackle, drone, interior resonance,,,,,is completely different.

My buddies car is a Lingenfelter built 355 LT1/6-speed that made somewhere around 430 hp at the rear wheels (can't remember exact) but it was a stout LT1 with large cam and alot of compression etc....so it seemed that all the systems made some noise,,,yes some more than others but what someone is willing to deal with may not satisfy the next guy...

The problem with the loud mouth system is you are basically stuck with a bullet muffler inline just in front of the rearend. Not many choices out there for that,,,,but a popular one would be installing a borla bullet muffler in it's place. Sticking a transverse muffler in the rear really isn't an option unless you want to chop and hack the system back there,,,,and if going through all that trouble you may as well get another style system designed with a transverse muffler and start over. Just my opinion.

Some of the quieter systems that I remember were the Edelbrock, Hooker, which all had a transverse muffler at the rear. I don't remember the magnaflow being that quiet, although we are dealing with a stout long tube header car with no cats,,,not sure what other people are comparing with.

He settled on the 4 inch mufflex system though, I believe with the flowmaster muffler,,,,although the spintech sounded the same to me,,,,they both put down the same power. None of the other 3 inch catbacks even compared to the huge mufflex setup,,,for obvious reasons. And yes it was rather loud,,,when it fired up in the middle of a 500+ car cruise in it turned heads. Although he drives the car when ever weather permits, (3-4 days a week) it's probably what I would consider not something the average car guy would want to deal with as far as noise everyday,,,but this isn't an average car either

I can tell you though something I have found to be rather pleasant to drive daily. It's the transverse stainless SLP muffler used on the optional dual/dual system and also used on the optional CME systems.

My 02 SS came equipped with the CME system with this muffler. Very quiet with cats and manifolds,,,,but I now have long tube headers with an off road Y-pipe. It's making a little more noise now but is very subtle, even my wife doesn't complain when we have the top down. When you stand on it,,,it will make enough noise to be noticed, but still very pleasant I think. Although we never got to test it's capability as far as HP on my buddies car,,,I'm willing to bet it would perform just as well as all the other 3 inch catbacks we tried,,,since none of them showed no real advantage over the other anyway...as a matter of fact,,,there is someone on this board that has an 11 second camaro,,,who recently installed one of these mufflers to quiet his car down from the previous loud setup,,,,and his car still runs identcial ET and mph as before,,,only doing it quietly now.
Probably doesn't answer your question though. Sorry.

**ksupersport02** · 06-05-2008, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Thats a tough question to answer. Everyones idea of rasp, cackle, drone, interior resonance,,,,,is completely different.

My buddies car is a Lingenfelter built 355 LT1/6-speed that made somewhere around 430 hp at the rear wheels (can't remember exact) but it was a stout LT1 with large cam and alot of compression etc....so it seemed that all the systems made some noise,,,yes some more than others but what someone is willing to deal with may not satisfy the next guy...

The problem with the loud mouth system is you are basically stuck with a bullet muffler inline just in front of the rearend. Not many choices out there for that,,,,but a popular one would be installing a borla bullet muffler in it's place. Sticking a transverse muffler in the rear really isn't an option unless you want to chop and hack the system back there,,,,and if going through all that trouble you may as well get another style system designed with a transverse muffler and start over. Just my opinion.

Some of the quieter systems that I remember were the Edelbrock, Hooker, which all had a transverse muffler at the rear. I don't remember the magnaflow being that quiet, although we are dealing with a stout long tube header car with no cats,,,not sure what other people are comparing with.

He settled on the 4 inch mufflex system though, I believe with the flowmaster muffler,,,,although the spintech sounded the same to me,,,,they both put down the same power. None of the other 3 inch catbacks even compared to the huge mufflex setup,,,for obvious reasons. And yes it was rather loud,,,when it fired up in the middle of a 500+ car cruise in it turned heads. Although he drives the car when ever weather permits, (3-4 days a week) it's probably what I would consider not something the average car guy would want to deal with as far as noise everyday,,,but this isn't an average car either

I can tell you though something I have found to be rather pleasant to drive daily. It's the transverse stainless SLP muffler used on the optional dual/dual system and also used on the optional CME systems.

My 02 SS came equipped with the CME system with this muffler. Very quiet with cats and manifolds,,,,but I now have long tube headers with an off road Y-pipe. It's making a little more noise now but is very subtle, even my wife doesn't complain when we have the top down. When you stand on it,,,it will make enough noise to be noticed, but still very pleasant I think. Although we never got to test it's capability as far as HP on my buddies car,,,I'm willing to bet it would perform just as well as all the other 3 inch catbacks we tried,,,since none of them showed no real advantage over the other anyway...as a matter of fact,,,there is someone on this board that has an 11 second camaro,,,who recently installed one of these mufflers to quiet his car down from the previous loud setup,,,,and his car still runs identcial ET and mph as before,,,only doing it quietly now.
Probably doesn't answer your question though. Sorry.

That actually helps alot. What i plan on doing is using a hooker, flowmasters, or something to that effect, with a 3''in 3'' out and cut out the bubble on the LM.. put the muffler in the middle.. I just want the the lower sound, not the high rasp...