Cobra's Wow!

[secondgearscratch]

Im not fighting with you either. WHat I am sick of is guys with COMMENTS about Cobras who NEVER owned one. I have owned a highly modded LS1 and a highly modded Cobra.

There are a lot of Cobra experts that dont even have one or GOD forbid ever even driven one!

i only know of cobras because of people i know that own them (two neighbors) and my run ins with them racing and talking around.

i worked with a guy who was a ford mechanic and suffice to say i got a healthy earful everyday. if i wouldnt have listened, i probably would still hate ford and not realize alot of their potential. despite coming from a mustang owning family, i have always leaned toward gm.

but give me a 91 notch fox body or an 03 cobra any day of the week....

no fighting, just good debating. i like this kind of thing because i always learn a shit load.

[JayplaySS2]

i agree but im not one of those people man.

noobs and dipshits think its simple like you mentioned, but we're talking about alot of money shelled out for dished pistons, machining to get the right chamber size, new rings, new crank, basically the bottom half of the motor. not to mention a blower cam and appropriate flowing heads and intake manifold. lots and lots of tuning. intercooler and plumbing, coolant lines and things i have no earthly idea about.
it is never just a bolt on affair....even centrifugals need alittle tweaking here and there.

the main reason i love the cobra is its ease in regards to modification. look at the platform! thats why if i had one i wouldnt hesitate to put a kb on there. i rave about them daily.

forced induction will almost always be more reliable off the factory floor.

When I win the lottery Saturday, I will sell you my Cobra CHEAP.

[secondgearscratch]

When I win the lottery Saturday, I will sell you my Cobra CHEAP.

if you do you may as well pay for my funeral expensives when i die from cardiac arrest....

but id die a happy man!

[JayplaySS2]

if you do you may as well pay for my funeral expensives when i die from cardiac arrest....

but id die a happy man!

We will just burry you IN the Cobra!

[camarojunky74]

good argument both of you guys! i learned a lot and viewed opinions from both sides of the sprectum.

all in fun like i always say!

and i would aslo like to quote a very nice FIrst lady Eleanor Roosavelt who said
"America loves speed, hot nasty bad ass speed"
both the camaro and mustang bring the dream alive to so many people.
just kinda sucks for mustang guys cause camaros are so much better. lol jk

ahahahha

[secondgearscratch]

We will just burry you IN the Cobra!

good deal

good argument both of you guys! i learned a lot and viewed opinions from both sides of the sprectum.

all in fun like i always say!

and i would aslo like to quote a very nice FIrst lady Eleanor Roosavelt who said
"America loves speed, hot nasty bad ass speed"
both the camaro and mustang bring the dream alive to so many people.
just kinda sucks for mustang guys cause camaros are so much better. lol jk

ahahahha

ladies and gentlemen....the devils advocate!!!

[JayplaySS2]

good argument both of you guys! i learned a lot and viewed opinions from both sides of the sprectum.

all in fun like i always say!

and i would aslo like to quote a very nice FIrst lady Eleanor Roosavelt who said
"America loves speed, hot nasty bad ass speed"
both the camaro and mustang bring the dream alive to so many people.
just kinda sucks for mustang guys cause camaros are so much better. lol jk

ahahahha

Yea, you never WIN an argument on the internet. Its like trying to take pee out of the pool! As long as educated people argue, we will learn. That is what Forums are for!

[slims00ls1z28]

I dont understand where you equate that having a 2.8L supercharger equates to adding 2.8 Liters to the total displacment of the motor... how can you possibly assume that a 4.6L motor with a 2.8L super charger is the same as a 7.4 L motor?

Thats kinda like saying that having a 10 pound bottle of NOS is like having a turbo pushing 10 pounds... though the units kinda sound the same... they arent really the same...

and is it the internal volume (by this i mean the space inside minus the screws/roots, which is how you make it sound)? or is it the volume of air moved per revolution.... If that is the case... well then you have liters and liters/revolution... that is soooooo far from just being able to be added...

and by that logic your saying a 4L engine with a 2L SC pushing "X" psi is like a 6L motor and will produce about the same HP as a Nat Asp 6L motor... But the SAME engine with a 1L SC spinning twice as fast to push the same psi will only act like a 5L motor?

Dude seriously... sit down and read what you've said and see if it makes any sence....

-me

Alright lets equate this first off by your last paragraph here its obvious you didn't even understand my post whatsoever.

Secondly don't get it twisted this is also not a knock on the Cobra or a SC motor I was taking on a twist on a slight technicality and trying to poke fun hence the ":P" at the end of the first post.

Thirdly I said nothing about a HP or that a 4L engine with a 2L sc will make the same hp as a N/A 6L go back to what I said and I said that technically a 4.6L with a 2.8L SC is roughly equivalent to 7.4L which is actually not its probabaly quite a bit more baseded specificaly on volumetric airflow.

Now lets break this down. I'll skip some of the simple stuff but basically a N/A engine uses the vacuum in its cylinders to fill the cylinders with air which is the main component of combustion on a combustion engine. A 350 CI engine would draw in 350 CI of air "IF" the heads intake and carb flowed at 100% efficiency which is impossible for numerous reasons based off head flow, valve lift, Compression etc so it is not drawing in anywhere near 350 CI but for arguments sake we'll say it has 350 CI of uncompressed air max period. A 454 etc or whatever else is the same.

Now lets take another 350 Ci Engine with a 200 CI roots blower.at 100 % efficiency we have 350 CI of air then the blower at 100% efficiency would put out 200 CI however the blower has roots which decreases the volume however it is spinning at a stepped rate at an unknown value so technically its pushing more than 200 CI but we are keeping it simple and just going to see how many CI of air we have 350 from the N/A engine and another 200 from the blower for a total of 550 CI from a single complete cycle of this engine in laymans terms.

In actuality it is completly different based on compression ratio's head flow valve lift etc so a 350 can never possibly draw in a full 350 CI per complete cycle but the difference is that the blower can force alot more so in a supertechnical sense even a 2.8L is pumping alot more than 2.8L even at very low boost. So technically speaking my argument holds water especially when dealing with volumetric airflow, and total cubic inches of the mechanisms use to move this air, even though I was just prodding in the first damn place.

[slims00ls1z28]

Oh and just back to the original statement a 2.8 KB on a 4.6 is "STILL" a 7.4 -------> <------- cuz 2.8+4.6=7.4.

[JayplaySS2]

Oh and just back to the original statement a 2.8 KB on a 4.6 is "STILL" a 7.4 -------> <------- cuz 2.8+4.6=7.4.

Now if I can just get some carbon fiber "7.4L" badges for the fender....

[predator]

Thirdly I said nothing about a HP or that a 4L engine with a 2L sc will make the same hp as a N/A 6L go back to what I said and I said that technically a 4.6L with a 2.8L SC is roughly equivalent to 7.4L which is actually not its probabaly quite a bit more baseded specificaly on volumetric airflow.

Now lets break this down. I'll skip some of the simple stuff but basically a N/A engine uses the vacuum in its cylinders to fill the cylinders with air which is the main component of combustion on a combustion engine. A 350 CI engine would draw in 350 CI of air "IF" the heads intake and carb flowed at 100% efficiency which is impossible for numerous reasons based off head flow, valve lift, Compression etc so it is not drawing in anywhere near 350 CI but for arguments sake we'll say it has 350 CI of uncompressed air max period. A 454 etc or whatever else is the same.

Now lets take another 350 Ci Engine with a 200 CI roots blower.at 100 % efficiency we have 350 CI of air then the blower at 100% efficiency would put out 200 CI however the blower has roots which decreases the volume however it is spinning at a stepped rate at an unknown value so technically its pushing more than 200 CI but we are keeping it simple and just going to see how many CI of air we have 350 from the N/A engine and another 200 from the blower for a total of 550 CI from a single complete cycle of this engine in laymans terms.

In actuality it is completly different based on compression ratio's head flow valve lift etc so a 350 can never possibly draw in a full 350 CI per complete cycle but the difference is that the blower can force alot more so in a supertechnical sense even a 2.8L is pumping alot more than 2.8L even at very low boost. So technically speaking my argument holds water especially when dealing with volumetric airflow, and total cubic inches of the mechanisms use to move this air, even though I was just prodding in the first damn place.

WTF... will someone help me out here...

I dont get you man... how can you NOT see that there is a gear ratio between the liters you are trying to compare... the motor displacement is based on crank rotations... the blower displacemt is based on one revolution (one rev of the roots/screws) which cannot be directly tied to motor displacement... i mean if i pulley is sized to the perfect size it could basically feed the same amount of air in that the motor could take in on it own... there for you would have a 4.6L with a 2.4L blower performing exactly like a 4.6 (minus the parisitic drag) and it woudl not be like having a damn 7.0L.

your statement was not valid... never has been valid... and only would be valid if fo some odd reason someone had just the perfect bost level and tune to match a 7.4L... but that exact same comment could be said about any size motor... i could slow down the blower enough to choke it down and make it act like a 2.0L...

I think i see where you are trying to go with this... you know say you have a 7.4 L engine with 10:1 compression... it will take (theoretically) 7.4 ounces of air and compress it 10 times....

and yes with a 4.6L and a 2.8L blower there is a boost level and a motor compression ratio that would do the same thing... but that is a very specific combination... you cant just add the 2 man...

-me

[predator]

Technically not you have a 4.6L engine with an added 2.8L so yours equals out to the displacement of roughly 7.4L :P

Oh and just back to the original statement a 2.8 KB on a 4.6 is "STILL" a 7.4 -------> <------- cuz 2.8+4.6=7.4.

No back to your original point.... YOU DO NOT HAVE 7.4L OF DISPLACMENT. you have a 4.6L motor and a 2.8L supercharger...

-me

[slims00ls1z28]

Geez man pull the stick out of your rear you will give yourself a headache trying to argue this one "I can do this all day long"<voice of Larry the cable guy.

Ok heres another stab at it. the 4.6 is a 4.6L air pump correct? The supercharger is a 2.8L air pump so a 2.8L air pump on top of a 4.6 L air pump gives ya what a 7.4L air pump. yes yes yes I know all about the gears the pullies the screws the gaskets runners etc. (I can rebuild a motor with my eyes closed so dont try to lecture on what parts they consist of k as well as superchargers-roots/screw/centrifugal etc and turbos). I know all about compression how it is formed, all the technical do's and don'ts of compression.

4.6L displacement <-----displacement of what? an air fuel mixture
+
2.8L displacement supercharger<---displacement of what? air

Does he actually have a 7.4L engine no he has a 4.6L with a 2.8L supercharger as the supercharger cannot power the car by itself and cant be an engine in its self. The 2 even work on completely different principles. Both are Machines designed to move air. However.....technically speaking (metaphorically speaking technnically and not a Chiltons breakdown technically) he has a 7.4L air pump and I can argue all day long How he has a bigger air pump and my little 5.7L air pump cannot and will never be able to reach the same air processing ability of his without adding one myself (which would also require a whole bunch of other stuff). Even If I bore and stroke it to 7.4L Mine cannot move the air in the same manner. But they are both displacing air from the outside to the inside. Am I winging it admittedly so. Is it a stretch of course it is, it was from the begining. But by that logic it still counts as a hit even if it is on the line. And of course I dont have 7.4L of displacement he does I only have 5.7 :P


Sorry Jay fresh outta CF Gimme a min and I might be able to get you a photo etched waterslide though. Warning ya though its not going to be cheapespecially with all the options.

[JayplaySS2]

Geez man pull the stick out of your rear you will give yourself a headache trying to argue this one "I can do this all day long"<voice of Larry the cable guy.

Ok heres another stab at it. the 4.6 is a 4.6L air pump correct? The supercharger is a 2.8L air pump so a 2.8L air pump on top of a 4.6 L air pump gives ya what a 7.4L air pump. yes yes yes I know all about the gears the pullies the screws the gaskets runners etc. (I can rebuild a motor with my eyes closed so dont try to lecture on what parts they consist of k as well as superchargers-roots/screw/centrifugal etc and turbos). I know all about compression how it is formed, all the technical do's and don'ts of compression.

4.6L displacement <-----displacement of what? an air fuel mixture
+
2.8L displacement supercharger<---displacement of what? air

Does he actually have a 7.4L engine no he has a 4.6L with a 2.8L supercharger as the supercharger cannot power the car by itself and cant be an engine in its self. The 2 even work on completely different principles. Both are Machines designed to move air. However.....technically speaking (metaphorically speaking technnically and not a Chiltons breakdown technically) he has a 7.4L air pump and I can argue all day long How he has a bigger air pump and my little 5.7L air pump cannot and will never be able to reach the same air processing ability of his without adding one myself (which would also require a whole bunch of other stuff). Even If I bore and stroke it to 7.4L Mine cannot move the air in the same manner. But they are both displacing air from the outside to the inside. Am I winging it admittedly so. Is it a stretch of course it is, it was from the begining. But by that logic it still counts as a hit even if it is on the line. And of course I dont have 7.4L of displacement he does I only have 5.7 :P


Sorry Jay fresh outta CF Gimme a min and I might be able to get you a photo etched waterslide though. Warning ya though its not going to be cheapespecially with all the options.

No problem man. You take a check? J/K

[slims00ls1z28]

Sure but I wont be able to ship until payment clears

[predator]

Ok heres another stab at it. the 4.6 is a 4.6L air pump correct? The supercharger is a 2.8L air pump so a 2.8L air pump on top of a 4.6 L air pump gives ya what a 7.4L air pump.

4.6L displacement <-----displacement of what? an air fuel mixture
+
2.8L displacement supercharger<---displacement of what? air

Headache... not so much... its sadly to a point where i want you to run out of lil bitch excuses that make no sence...

ok you want to treat this like an air pump...

cool we will aproach it that way...

you have a 2.8L and a 4.6L air pump.... ahhhh but they are inline... and the nature of a roots or screw supercharger (dont even pull out the centrifical card here) means it is actually a gate... It controls all air into the motor...

so does that mean he actually took his 4.6L and turned it into a 2.8L by puting a supercharger on it?

-me

[slims00ls1z28]

why do you even try to defend a numbers game? I could say its a it's 2.8 plus 4.6 just because they both have L behind it.

You can try to explain anyway you want to and it still wont matter because you have missed the point entirely. Inline or not it makes no matter. Bottom line fill the 4.6 with water (ensure all cylinders are all the way down so you can fill each cylinder full ). Now remove the rotors in the 2.8 and fill it full of water. Now pour them both in a trashcan and add how much water you have in the trash can. That is my whole point from the get go and it is infallable period. I don't want any excuses gates gears inline etc. Bottom line the 4.6L engine can hold a max of 4.6L of WATER within its cylinders. The 2.8L (interior volume of said supercharger minus rotors is 2.8L)
supercharger can hold a max of 2.8L of WATER. Add the two together and what do you have? There is no spinning anything, forcing anything, and the two cannot even be moved and the bottom line is 2.8L+4.6L of standing water. Case closed, period point made. Thats as simple as I can make it.

Lastly if you took any of this more than an enlongated joke and me at prodding at Jayplay in the first place then I'm sorry you are an F*$@#$g idiot. I'll never run out of "bitch" excuses because there is none. My point is made and still stands. You can't argue the point I made because there is nothing to argue. If you want to turn this into a beligerant name calling match I can ablige ya to the fullest. I suggest if you can't handle it STFU and don't respond.

[predator]

Y do i defend a numbers game? Im an engineer... thats what i do all day every day... its how i get my rocks off...

hey man its cool... i understand that some times you just have to fall back on "it was a prolonged joke"... i mean ive ahd times where logic just isnt in my favor too...

and if you took the rotors out of a 2.8 liter Supercharger and filled it with water you wouldnt get 2.8L of water... prolly more like 4....

-me

[slims00ls1z28]

and if you took the rotors out of a 2.8 liter Supercharger and filled it with water you wouldnt get 2.8L of water... prolly more like 4....

-me

If it was more like 4 then he has a 4.6L +4L and in my original point I should have said a 8.6L and now you see the entire basis of the small technicality that I made from the get go. However the 2.8 is the interior volume of the supercharger period without taking into account the rotors or screws whichever it has cant remember off hand. its much less with the rotors and they take up most of the interior room of the case. Just like an engine with pistons in various positions of crankshaft movement is never displacing the full CID at any given time.

And for the record you need to catch some of my many other posts throughout the forum as i don't now nor never needed to to fall back on "it was a joke" thats what it was from the get go. Did you not notice the ":P" (couldnt find a razzberry emoticon at the time so I typed it and as you can see its unedited) and based on my water in a trashcan theory my small technicality still holds, well......... water .

*There now we can go back to being friends* <--Doc holiday voice.

Back on topic though Termy's = wow.

[patricksd]

I'm gonna jump in here, just because I'm not a rabid GM or Ford fan. To be honest, I could give a shit if a Cobra makes 650 rwhp or an LS1 or LS2 450 with bolt-ons. Why? Because like most people, I don't live next to a track, so racing it five nights a week and posting my experiences in the "kill stories" section is not realistic. My guess is, most guys with Cobras and built Camaros drive them as daily drivers, or sparingly throughout the week. What does this mean? It means they have to drive on the street.

There is such a limit as useable horsepower. Sure, rocketing down a 1/4 mile track in 10 seconds is bad ass. But unless you live next to a track, it means absolutely nothing, zero, zilch, nada. There is no place I can take my car and safely rocket up to 120 mph and have enough room to shut down, without endangering my life, or those around me.

So, for the majority of us, it doesn't matter. We have to drive our cars on the street, where there are stupid, slow drivers. We have rush hour traffic, which limits 0-60 runs. There are stoplights. Roads were not designed or built for 600 rwhp cars. And since the majority of driving is done on the road, 600 rwhp becomes a disadvantage.

For anyone with a high horsepower Cobra or LS1, you cannot even get close to your power potential cruising on the street, there are too many obstructions. Now, I know some of guys live in towns of 200 people with wide-open stretches of road. I'm sure in those areas, its a blast. But with 70% of the American population living near the coasts (i.e. big cities), there isn't much opportunity to open it up.

Personally, I don't want 600 rwhp. Why? Because I'd be on people's asses all the time, drive more erratic, risk more tickets, and God forbid, kill myself or others.