Some insight into the 3.4L OHV Motor...

**Forced_Firebird** · 10-22-2007, 01:32 PM

With the new heads, your motor is going to need more fuel. I'm starting with 24# injectors, but with MegaSquirt tuning. You may need to experiment a little with FP and injector size to get your car to run decent with a stock tune/ECM.

**koolchriscamaro** · 10-29-2007, 07:24 AM

instead of having my car worked on this winter......im just gonna keep my good motor in the car(only 60,000 miles) and build me a 3.4 that ill get out of a junkyard..........the reason why im gonna build it(which i dont know much about) is because my old man is gonna help me and show me how(he use to do mechanic work for a living)........he was against it at first, but then gave in...........well, right now im tearing down that 3400 engine that came out of a '99 grand am (with rod knocking) .......well, my old man said that the engine was in good shape and didnt need to be bored out(even though it had 154,000 miles on it and rarely saw an oil change)....well,just exactly how much fabrication would be required if i wanted to use that FWD block on my camaro..........if its too much, then i will just go to a junkyard and get a RWD block, ............ALSO, does anyone know if 3400 pisons will fit camaro 3.4 rods...i need to know this ........another thing, im strongly thinking about building this motor stout so it can handle supercharging in the future.........what do i need besides forged pistons(i dont plan on much boost)and do i need copper head gaskets or what..........thanks again to any advice given

**koolchriscamaro** · 10-29-2007, 07:29 AM

oh.....ill either do supercharging or turbocharging...........i guess ill need bigger injectors to(which ill have no idea on what size to get)......i wonder how supercharging and turbocharging are different on the extra stress they put on the motor

**Forced_Firebird** · 10-29-2007, 03:30 PM

The 3400 pistons will fit on the 3.4 rods.

It's not easy to get a FWD engine in a RWD car, you would want a tubular k-member to make it easier.

The stock rods are forged steel, the crank is cast. Forged pistons are going to run you about $600, but don't really need them if you have a good tune. On that subject, you can't just put larger injectors in without a tune and expect it to run good. You have an OBD1.5 ECM and not too many people have bothered to hack it because it was limited in production. Your three best options in order from best to worst (IMO) is
1. Standalone ECM (I'm using MegaSquirt)
2. Upgrade to OBD1 or OBD2
3. Use the stock injectors and a rising rate fuel pressure reulator aka: FMU or RRFPR

**koolchriscamaro** · 10-30-2007, 06:13 AM

i know ive asked a hell of a lot of questions, but i figure that these are all basic questions that will be asked from anyone interested in this top end swap(and pistons of course)....but i need to know something, i bought a delta camshaft and it arrived yesterday.....i think i got like a 250-something, i couldnt get in the 260's because they didn't work with the stock tune...my cam should work from off idle to around 5000 so i think ive got a good can cuz i drive around town a lot and would rather have a lot of low end torque........but what im wonderin is why cant the roller cam and roller lifters be used.....or can they be used, cuz that would give me more power and better performance than a flat tappet, would it not?

**Forced_Firebird** · 10-30-2007, 12:29 PM

There's no provisions in the RWD block to keep the lifters square to the cam.

**koolchriscamaro** · 11-01-2007, 06:36 AM

you mentioned earlier in this thread that i would need pushrods for the grand am........but are you 100% positive....we just took the cam and lifters off the 3400 engine so that we could inspect it and then we compared it to the delta camshaft and lifters that i had just ordered.....surprisingly, the lobes on the 3400 cam are bigger than the delta cam, also, the roller lifters off the 3400 engine are longer than the delta lifters....i know that if i put the wrong pushrods on the engine, then i will screw the everything up.......

**Forced_Firebird** · 11-01-2007, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by koolchriscamaro

you mentioned earlier in this thread that i would need pushrods for the grand am........but are you 100% positive....we just took the cam and lifters off the 3400 engine so that we could inspect it and then we compared it to the delta camshaft and lifters that i had just ordered.....surprisingly, the lobes on the 3400 cam are bigger than the delta cam, also, the roller lifters off the 3400 engine are longer than the delta lifters....i know that if i put the wrong pushrods on the engine, then i will screw the everything up.......

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with a shorter lifter and a bigger base circle on the cam, couldn't that off-set the difference? I haven't gotten to final assembly yet, but Russel (origional poster) has had 3400 pushrods in his car since 2001 IIRC. Wolf just finished his swap and also used 3x00 pushrods and has been running for a few months.

What head gaskets did you use? You need to be using 3400 gaskets with the heads to keep the lobe to rocker lenthe the same as the 3x00 engines.

**Street Lethal** · 11-02-2007, 12:11 PM

^ Hey bro, glad to see your a member here....

**Forced_Firebird** · 11-02-2007, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Street Lethal

^ Hey bro, glad to see your a member here....

I'm everywhere

.

I just try to help with information that I have, and someone else might use

**wantsumuscle11** · 11-13-2007, 06:11 PM

I have a 1998 Toyota 4-Runner with a 3400. Is this the same type engine or am I being stupid.

**98formy** · 11-14-2007, 04:39 AM

Nope, totally different.

**koolchriscamaro** · 11-19-2007, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Forced_Firebird

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with a shorter lifter and a bigger base circle on the cam, couldn't that off-set the difference? I haven't gotten to final assembly yet, but Russel (origional poster) has had 3400 pushrods in his car since 2001 IIRC. Wolf just finished his swap and also used 3x00 pushrods and has been running for a few months.

What head gaskets did you use? You need to be using 3400 gaskets with the heads to keep the lobe to rocker lenthe the same as the 3x00 engines.

im sure if russel hasn't had any problems, then everythings A-okay....and i havent got the head gasket yet, but im gonna get the 3400 head gaskets...........but i noticed on fullthrottlev6 that you were working on making the 3500 top end to work on our cars.....are the 3500 heads made of cast iron?cuz id rather have iron heads because they dont warp as easy and last longer......i noticed that you were looking at asking around $500 per kit on the 3500 top ends in MArch, well, what do you expect the compression ration to be since these heads are modified to use pump gas, cuz i sure would hate to have valves rattling......if you dont mind, could you give me some more info on this kit and if it comes with gaskets(i know that o'reilys cant get a hold of any UIM gasket for the 3500 at this time)......i hate that i already bought 3400 heads, manifolds and gaskets, but i still have to buy an engine to build.....so its not too late for me to change my mind and use 3500 top end............and i dont care to do this if theres not any complications.......also, how much more power do you think i would get out of the 3500 heads over the '99 3400 heads that i have right now?...

Another big thing, im getting tired of people saying that there is no way to tune the computer on the camaro 3.4........i've done said like 5 times that you can get a jet chip..........google "jet chip" and look up your car and i guarantee that they have a "chip module" for your car....the chip module is suppose to hook right up to your computer without cutting wires.....they have stage1 for stock vehicles....stage2 for vehicles with intake,exhaust, and 180degree thermostat......and then if you plan on doing a top end swap and running a different cam and all that good stuff....then Jet Chip can make a custom chip for your car........i plan on have Jet chip make me a custom chip to work with whatever top end i end up swapping on my camaro and to work with the specs on my new cam, exhaust, etc..........so, you do not have to use Megasquirt tuning, although it would probably be better but more of a hassel,a custom Jet Chip will cost you $400........i just thought id let everyone know cuz it feels like im the only one that know about Jet Chip

**koolchriscamaro** · 11-19-2007, 10:59 AM

by the way, forced firebird, pleas let me know(and the rest of us) how your project goes with the 3500 top end as far as power and the quarter mile and all that good stuff.......i am very interested..........

**Forced_Firebird** · 11-19-2007, 04:03 PM

$500 gets you a 3500 top end with the chambers modified to work with 3.4 pistons, but I wouldn't recomend this combo if you are going with boost. It will run on pupm gas, and you are resposible for a TB, throttle cable and ECM.

The kits will contain everything needed to do the swap, but is going to cost a bit more (gaskets and all). A 3400 UIM is better for a 4th gan F-body because the 3500 plenum needs to be modified to fit.

3500 heads are aluminum and I offer porting/polishing as well...

**koolchriscamaro** · 11-24-2007, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Forced_Firebird

$500 gets you a 3500 top end with the chambers modified to work with 3.4 pistons, but I wouldn't recomend this combo if you are going with boost. It will run on pupm gas, and you are resposible for a TB, throttle cable and ECM.

The kits will contain everything needed to do the swap, but is going to cost a bit more (gaskets and all). A 3400 UIM is better for a 4th gan F-body because the 3500 plenum needs to be modified to fit.

3500 heads are aluminum and I offer porting/polishing as well...

ya, ill just stick with my 3400 heads and intake manifolds that ive already bought, they'll do good enough for me......and i dont plan on boosting my motor,like i was earlier, because i see it being usless if im not going to drag race........well, heres one big thing im worried about and need your opinion.....as i mentioned earlier, i bought the delta cam 252 for my '95 camaro 3.4 engine.....i will use this on a junkyard 3.4 engine from another '95 that i will build soon............now, what im worried about is, "did i order the wrong cam?" cuz i can always have it regrinded, and i know that i need to make up my mind before i have it installed..............i drive around town a lot and never race, unless it from a traffic light........now what kind of cam would u have recommended me......a slightly lopey idle would have been nice, but im sure the 252 wont achieve that..........since im gonna have much better heads and intake manifolds, headers and full exhaust,CAI, and even a custom chip module.....should i have got a bigger cam?.........im afraid that the 252(rpm range was said to be from 1000 to 5000-5500) will have too much low end torque which might cause me to spin too much........
the specs at .o5"tappet lift is duration:intake=208.4,exh.=204.1.........valve lift: intake=.420,exh.=.419...........advice is needed because im confused and i know that the cam is one of the most important parts in building an engine........by the way, can you inform me a little on the delta 262 cam that you said you had with those 3500 heads.........where is your power range?, do you still have enough low end torque?, hows the idle, ........what is the duration and lift..........thanks for any info cuz its needed again........

**Forced_Firebird** · 11-24-2007, 10:05 PM

252 is a mild cam, 272 is too big for a stock ECM. If you do some better valve springs, you can have a 7000RPM redline, most of the 660's start running out of power at about 6500. You are going to have to choose your cam for your application, and remember that the 3400 heads have a 1.6 rocker ratio.

I didn't end up buying the cam just yet, and am probably going to go much bigger (280 adv dur range). I don't mind it being a little less streetable, as long as I can take it to bring the wife to the movies, and drive 50miles to the track, I'm happy

.

With a .419 cam (speced with 1.5 rockers), then you have .447 with 1.6 rockers - the 262 is a .440 lift cam

If you use LS6 valve springs (takes some mods to make work) - then you have a max lift of .550, but should keep it a little less for spring longevity.

**koolchriscamaro** · 11-25-2007, 05:17 AM

so if i keep the .419 cam with the 1.6 rockers what i have, then i will have .447 lift instead....right?......if so, well, is this going to change my duration and will my rpm range still be the same...........and the most important part, will those stock GA springs still handle the extra lift and still have longevity.......i really don't want to have to buy more valve springs, but i will if i need to

**koolchriscamaro** · 11-28-2007, 01:46 PM

Sorry, that was probably a dumb question, i will find out when i get the engine together and all the measurements are taken.........by the way.....no one mentioned the torque converter.....did you'll change this.......i dont really know what different stalls do....i figure it gives you a better launch.....but hell, if im gonna take the engine out of my car, it would probably be wise to put a better converter in their.............and another thing, i live with my old man(grandfather) and he used to do mechanic work for a living.....he delivers mail and is always working on his mail truck to keep it running(its got over 300,000 miles on the truck).....but anyway, that's besides the point, the point is that he doesn't believe that im gonna get much power out of my car....he thinks that the only two ways to get power is to get higher compression or get oversized pistons.....well, my dad thinks the same thing, LIKE FATHER LIKE SON, I GUESS, but im gonna prove them wrong....it aggravates me though, cuz he thinks im dumb....he told me that a bigger cam would not give more power and different heads wouldn't..and that the damn internet is full of shit...so, when i complete this project, it will not only impress me a lot(if done right), i will also prove to the elders that they're full of shit......just thought id let you know