6.2 L in a 02 Trans Am

[farmer_ron_99]

I would like to replace the busted (cracked block) LS1 in my TA with a 6.2 L engine. I was thinking LS3 but would consider other options. I would like to up the power to 500+hp. The car is my daily driver so the fuel economy needs to be better than 18 mpg. I might consider adding a turbo later. I would like to take advantage of the electronic throttle control and maybe VVT.

Now the questions:
1. What ECM would I need?
2. Would it be possible to use the stock dash gauges?
3. Any recommendations on an engine to start with?
4. Head and cam?

Thanks,
Ron

[farmer_ron_99]

I also want to keep the traction control.

[Firebirdjones]

Many LS2 and LS3 swaps have been done.

You would use your original computer so as far as I know you won't have the VVT capability. You also have to dive into the engine and change a few things that are different for the VVT, timing cover being one of them.

All the wire harness adapters are made by several vendors to make the swap pretty straight forward. They also sell a control box for the 58 tooth reluctor wheel so it jives with your old computer.

If you try to use a more modern computer for VVT you'll get into issues with wiring dash gauges and other things that won't work.

Easiest way to do it is to "dummy down" the engine, keep the cable control throttle body so your cruise control works as it should etc. etc....

With drive by wire you'll loose your current cruise control and have to buy an electronic controller, and I'm not even sure if the 02 Fbody computer is even capable of supporting that. So you can see the can of worms that opens up when you start tossing in other electronic controls like VVT and drive by wire etc...
It can be done but is sure does add to the cost of the swap......in a hurry.

My personal favorite is to just buy the 6.0 stroker motor from places like Texas speed and the like, they drop right in with no fuss, adapter harness to extend your original to things like oil sender and maybe knock sensors and you're ready to roll. This is the most cost effective route with less expense in the long run.

[SMWS6TA]

How deep is your pockets?

This may be a matter of just getting a new car. (Sorry)

Crate LS3's are still in the $7000-8000 range.

1. What ECM would I need? - Yours would work but you would need a few things done 1st. All LS3's run what is called a 58x reluctor wheel (lets the ECM know where the crank position is). Your ECM works on a 24x. You have a few options, 1- expensive, a 58x to 24x convertor, 2- swap out the reluctor wheel on the crank to 24x. 3- get a ecm that works with 58x. If you swap to new ecm you need to get a wire harness for it and LS3 motor that supports DBW throttle body. You could juct get a NW102 TB that is cable driven and be good. Tuning is the biggest thing here. Your stock ecm might not be able to be programmed for LS3. Talk with tuners.

2. Would it be possible to use the stock dash gauges? You should be able to. Painless Performance can make a harness to your needs. Costs $$ but in the end you have a superior product.

3. Any recommendations on an engine to start with?

Other than LS3? Several. I've seen 5.3's running stock internals with turbos fly around 700 to the wheels. 500HP is just a number. You want economy that's not something that goes with built motors. You can build a LS1 to hit them but it will most likely not have the street manners you're looking for.

Most common builds for 4th gens are 5.3's and 6.0 LQ4 or 9 blocks. Very common, optimal yr for the 6Liters are 99-04 yrs. After 04 they are almost exclusively 58x reluctor wheel. Check my signature you'll see my 6.0Liter build. 403ci making currently 450rwhp on crappy injectors and still needing some tune up stuff done before I go back for final tune.


Questions you should ask yourself:
Are you doing the work yourself or having a shop do it?
How much will you spend? The old saying applies here "You want to go fast, how much you want to spend?"
How long of a project can you handle?
What is it you want; street, track, DD, show? These can all be done in combos but not all work well together. For example a heavy track car does not have DD manners.


Others will chime in. I'm not trying to rain on your desire. Just giving you some insight.

We had a member that could easily answer all of this but he's been inactive for a while. I'll see if I can find his thread and post it for you.

[SMWS6TA]

My personal favorite is to just buy the 6.0 stroker motor from places like Texas speed and the like, they drop right in with no fuss, adapter harness to extend your original to things like oil sender and maybe knock sensors and you're ready to roll. This is the most cost effective route with less expense in the long run.

^^
And by far the less headaches too......

[SMWS6TA]

Here's the thread I was talking about


http://www.ls1.com/forums/f36/franke...roject-162671/

[Firebirdjones]

Yup, LQ stroker is just all around less complicated and the cheaper way to go. They'll even build it with any reluctor wheel you want so there is no need for the added expense of a conversion box.

You can pick and choose your combo from mild to wild, and even relatively mild will make more power than any stock LS2/LS3. Use cathedral heads and reuse your stock LS6 intake, saves more money. With all the collective heads here, we could go on and on about it.

[SMWS6TA]

And what's funny is we haven't even touched turbo vs supercharger.

[pajeff02]

One of my LS Engine books has a nice section on swapping an LS3 into a vehicle that was originally equipped with an LS1.

[farmer_ron_99]

Which book would that be?

[farmer_ron_99]

Thank you everyone for your information. I have thought that a stroker engine might be the way to go. I like a challenge and plan to do all the work myself. Currently the car is sitting in my barn so I am not in a big hurry, but I do want to do it right. The transmission has a few issues so my plan is to start with that. I figure that I can get it out without need of a lift to pull the body off of the engine. When I rebuild it I plan to upgrade to handle more torque, somewhere around 600 ft-lb. This will give me a little time to sort out exactly what to do for an engine. I was hoping that you guys would say just use this adapter, or this harness, but alas you have confirmed some of my fears. I thought it would be a cool trick to take advantage of some of the cool new toys on the engine such as VVT, DOD, and drive by wire. I still have a goal of 550 hp and 18 mpg (yes same engine) so I can drive it daily. Since it appears difficult to take advantage of the cool features on a 6.2 L (LS3 or other) I may just go with a LS2 with 9.5:1 CR and then add a turbo. Then again I do like the idea of a 6.6 L stroker and then putting T/A-6.6 on the hood.

[farmer_ron_99]

And what's funny is we haven't even touched turbo vs supercharger.

I realize the obvious answer there is Turbo, and I would like to add one in the future.
More complicated - Yes
More things to tune - Yes
Superior COOL factor - Definitely

<sitting back with popcorn waiting for the flame war to begin>

[SMWS6TA]

Do you have access to E85?

[SMWS6TA]

Jon's running a supercharger. Wonder what his mpg is.

[farmer_ron_99]

Do you have access to E85?

Not in my area. Why?

[35th-ANV-SS]

Jon's running a supercharger. Wonder what his mpg is.

Never calculated it. Don't care either really lol. However, with a centrifugal supercharger like that of a Procharger, the car drives the same as stock when you're not making boost. If I had to guess, I get high 20's to low 30's on the highway. When I make a WOT pull from a dig through 3rd, I can physically see the gas gauge marker go down lol.

[35th-ANV-SS]

Do you have access to E85?

More and more people are straying away from E85 and just using a methanol injection kit from what I'm seeing. I still haven't used up a full drum of methanol since installing my setup.

[SMWS6TA]

Do you have access to E85?

Not in my area. Why?

Nevermind got my answer from Will.

E85 gives a boost to hp but hurts you on mpg.

[35th-ANV-SS]

Pretty much. E85 is superior in controlling knock and adding power. Methanol also has a decent BTU and will add power and lower AIT's. You'd likely be able to advance timing more for more power with E85 over methanol. Methanol is cheaper IMO and works just fine. It's all in the tuning. Ethanol might not be available everywhere and is expensive to buy/get shipped via drum. Pros and cons to each really.

[SMWS6TA]

Will methanol work for NA builds? I've only seen them on FI builds. From what I understand is that as the boost builds so does engine temps, the meth is used to bring cylinder temps down which allows more air/fuel/boost to build up = more power. Am I close?