Imports

[Street Lethal]

...there is no domestic competition for the STi/EVO. I do not count the Colbalt or SRT4 for that reason.

Although I am not 100% sure, I believe that the rally version of the SRT4 (which was never offered in the states), is AWD, and would take on any STI/EVO....

The Cobalt is still relatively new, and GM is still experimenting with it. If the demand is there, we'll soon see an AWD version of it soon.... but first on GM's list, as always, the Corvette.

[jacobyb]

Excluding the rain, that is....

How can you say that? The 930's (at the time) handled better than the 911's. The 911's (at the time) had the tendency of breaking loose in the twisties (at very high speeds) due to it's rear engine configuration.

I'm a Porsche enthusiast myself, and I'd like to see you're 87' 930. Any pics?

-Lethal

Edit: I hope you didn't mean the 944 (and got the two confused), which is a little more accessible.... as then I'd have to agree with you.

Here you go. The fact of the matter is that it is almost a 20 year old car. For its time it was a monster. Today it will still outperform most cars in the corners. That being said, it is not the be all end all of performance cars and up against slightly modded imports like an EVO, it needs work to keep up drivers being eaqual. I am a Porsche enthusiast too, but I'm realistic. I have owned this one, a 1983 SC, and an '02 C2. I pretty sure I know the difference between a front engine 4cyl water cooled vehicle and a flat-6 air cooled rear engine turbo car.

This one is having some boost work done. It has a T76 right now and it is just too much. It pushes almost 25psi but it takes 4300rpm's to get the turbo moving fast enough. Add to that a shifter that seems to move 3 feet between gears and synchro's that are not the best for quick shifting and I have to go with a smaller snail. I'll lose a bit up top but I m going to gain a lot down low. It should be done in June, early July.

[Street Lethal]

Here you go. The fact of the matter is that it is almost a 20 year old car. For its time it was a monster. Today it will still outperform most cars in the corners.

Jacobyb, please don't ever take what I say the wrong way... as we're only having a discussion. What you just stated was exactly my point, in which, twenty year old technology (rear wheel technology), is still good enough to compete with the best of them. My arguement was that AWD (although very trick) is not the be all, end all, in the twisties.

It is true, my buddies 930 has loads of work done to it, along with the infamous (but limited) "slanted" nose. I've driven plenty of EVO's, and they just can't compare with it in the twisties (IMO, of course).

That being said, it is not the be all end all of performance cars and up against slightly modded imports like an EVO....

Remember, I'm only referring to the twisties...

By the way, awesome rides!

[EE1983]

Although I am not 100% sure, I believe that the rally version of the SRT4 (which was never offered in the states), is AWD, and would take on any STI/EVO....

The Cobalt is still relatively new, and GM is still experimenting with it. If the demand is there, we'll soon see an AWD version of it soon.... but first on GM's list, as always, the Corvette.

Thats nice rhetoric but....I dont know what SRT AWD youre talking about since Ive never heard of it mentioned, nor did I find anything about it on Google. What is with you and the hearsay? "If this was here this would do this..." An AWD version of the SRT4 woudl make it the same weight as the EVO and make it put less power to the ground, and it wouldnt be "taking" anything. ANd sinec it doesnt exist here why are you bringing it up, just like "if there wa a 2006 F-body thatd be faster than.. blah blah. I think we're good on that. What I said still stands, that there is no direct competition for the STi/EVO. No comment on the Colbalt. LOL

[Street Lethal]

Thats nice rhetoric but....I dont know what SRT AWD youre talking about since Ive never heard of it mentioned, nor did I find anything about it on Google. What is with you and the hearsay? "If this was here this would do this...".

What is it with "me" and hearsay? What exactly are you referring to? I was not positive about the AWD version of the SRT4, as I remember reading about it in a magazine, hence the reasoning behind why I stated; "I'm not 100% sure"...

You asked about domestic competition for you're POS, I mean STI... so I thought I'd mention it in passing. BTW, where do you live, exactly, I'd love to meet you in person.

[EE1983]

What is it with "me" and hearsay? What exactly are you referring to? I was not positive about the AWD version of the SRT4, as I remember reading about it in a magazine, hence the reasoning behind why I stated; "I'm not 100% sure"...

You asked about domestic competition for you're POS, I mean STI... so I thought I'd mention it in passing. BTW, where do you live, exactly, I'd love to meet you in person.

What am I referring to? Youre constantly referring to cars that dont exist or arent sold here to compete with the STi/EVO. BTW, I dont have a POS STi. I know you said you werent 100% sure about the SRT AWD however I found it quite comical you mentioned at the end of that statement "it would take an STi/EVO".... so if that vehicle existed it would definitely take out the EVO and STi even though you know nothing about it and have no perfomance figures on it... it would beat them...

I live in Pine Beach btw. I dont know why you want to meet me in person bc I have no real interest in meeting you but hey, when I get $30 in my pocket, Ill come to E-town

[Street Lethal]

What am I referring to? Youre constantly referring to cars that dont exist or arent sold here to compete with the STi/EVO. BTW, I dont have a POS STi.

STI, EVO... what's the freaking difference. I once referred to, (theoretically, as stated in that particular post, to make a point), a 2006 Camaro. So what? Get off of it already. Is this going to be thrown at me everytime we go at each other? LMFAO

I live in Pine Beach btw. I dont know why you want to meet me in person bc I have no real interest in meeting you but hey, when I get $30 in my pocket, Ill come to E-town.

Oh grow up already. What, did mommy buy you you're EVO? Does daddy pay for you're upgrades? Thirty freaking dollars is equivalent to the price of freaking gas for crying out loud. Start saving you're pennies, and maybe next year we'll get to run each other.... "yawn"

Incidently, I have no real interest in meeting you either. I just prefer a New Jersian ricer to be in front of me when they start talking smack...

[EE1983]

STI, EVO... what's the freaking difference. I once referred to, (theoretically, as stated in that particular post, to make a point), a 2006 Camaro. So what? Get off of it already. Is this going to be thrown at me everytime we go at each other? LMFAO



Oh grow up already. What, did mommy buy you you're EVO? Does daddy pay for you're upgrades? Thirty freaking dollars is equivalent to the price of freaking gas for crying out loud. Start saving you're pennies, and maybe next year we'll get to run each other.... "yawn"

Incidently, I have no real interest in meeting you either. I just prefer a New Jersian ricer to be in front of me when they start talking smack...

Those are pretty lame attempts at insults. I bought my EVO and paid for every single thing on it. I got laid off in January from work I have been incredibly strapped for cash lately as I have been commuting FT to school taking 6 classes. I just graduated so Im done and now I will have some more time & money to throw around. BTW I dont think I can beat your 454'd car.
The $30+gas is near $50 and lately, I jsut havent had that to throw around, so sorry. I like roll raving anyway hehe.

Also, I didnt know you consider being realistic "talking smack". As far as I recall, we arent debating anything other than domestic/import factory competition. I didnt come on here and say LS1s suck or something of that nature.

[Street Lethal]

Those are pretty lame attempts at insults. I bought my EVO and paid for every single thing on it. I got laid off in January from work I have been incredibly strapped for cash lately as I have been commuting FT to school taking 6 classes. I just graduated so Im done and now I will have some more time & money to throw around. BTW I dont think I can beat your 454'd car.

Not trying to insult you, just being realistic. That sucks that you got laid off, and I definitely know the feeling of being strapped for cash. Congrats on graduating, and maybe now that you'll have more time and money.... you can bring that car of your's over here and have a good time.

The Iroc has since manifested into a street "unfriendly" vehicle (shooting for 8's with it), so I'll be running you in my LS1. Last, best, run to date was a 12.75 with the mods listed in my sig (stock cam, heads and intake), but have since purchased some new items which will be thrown on soon (if time allows)....

Im a ricer then you must be a hick of some sort.

Good one.

[EE1983]

I was kidding about the hick comment lol.

I went nose to nose with my friend Drew's cammed TA (off the juice) from a 50mph roll-on. He spanked me from a stop since I cant launch. Thats the only thing I have for comparisons sake.

[jacobyb]

Jacobyb, please don't ever take what I say the wrong way... as we're only having a discussion. What you just stated was exactly my point, in which, twenty year old technology (rear wheel technology), is still good enough to compete with the best of them. My arguement was that AWD (although very trick) is not the be all, end all, in the twisties.

It is true, my buddies 930 has loads of work done to it, along with the infamous (but limited) "slanted" nose. I've driven plenty of EVO's, and they just can't compare with it in the twisties (IMO, of course).



Remember, I'm only referring to the twisties...

By the way, awesome rides!

Sorry if I came across as a dick, that was not my intention.

I do agree with the fact that the technology of the 930 is great and one thing that has kept Porsche at the front of the pack for so long is that they have always designed cars like this correctly the first time.

[cj8718]

They're not even meant to though. More performance options from the factory, means a much higher price at the dealership...

Also, if I personally wanted to tear it up in the twisties against the STI/EVO crowd, I'd borrow my friends 930 (rear wheel drive Porsche), and rape everybody!

I had a '78 930 - that car would have no chance against my current Evo. Not in power, braking or handling.

The girlies sure loved it, though.

[Street Lethal]

I had a '78 930 - that car would have no chance against my current Evo. Not in power, braking or handling.

Come on now, you're putting a 78' 930, up against a much more modern EVO. My buddies 930 is an 89', slant-nosed Turbo.

[cj8718]

Come on now, you're putting a 78' 930, up against a much more modern EVO. My buddies 930 is an 89', slant-nosed Turbo.

If your buddy's car is anywhere near stock it's still a wipeout. My car had 250 hp stock, your buddy's has 280. His car is heavier than mine (930 to 930). My Evo makes around 380 at the crank and does the quarter in the low 12's. The 930 can't ever handle well due to it's rear weight bias. The one thing his car has over the one I had is his has a 5-speed (new in '89).

If you do your homework you'll realize it wouldn't be much of a race.

Beyond that, you're the one who made the original statement. I'm the one bringing the facts.

No disrespect... I loved my 930 and I'd love your friend's, too. As you say, it's just way too old to compete.

If he's interested in signing up for Pinks however, count me in.

[cj8718]

Come on now, you're putting a 78' 930, up against a much more modern EVO. My buddies 930 is an 89', slant-nosed Turbo.

I did some research for you. This is from //vista.pca.org/stl/turbo.htm (I can't post a url since I'm a newb):

After a 7 year absence, the Turbo finally returned in 1986. It was virtually the same model, sporting the 4 speed gearbox and a very nervous rear end. Yet by 1989, the car had a 5 speed box, 285 horsepower, a better suspension, better brakes, and wider tires. Performance was down from the Euro version due to strict emissions laws. It was unfortunately slower than the 1978-79 model. In 1990, no 911 Turbo showed up in the brochures. Sales were down, prices were up, and the 930 was, I guess, impractical.

[Jason05GTO]

www.ricehatersclub.com
Some funny stuff in here, they enjoy bashing the ricer crowd. And by rice they mean anything, domestic or import that has crap hanging all over it to make it look fast even tho it is not. There are even mustangs, vipers and other domestic muscle cars in there that people have ruined with crap and stickers.

[Street Lethal]

If your buddy's car is anywhere near stock it's still a wipeout.

You are very wrong. Unless, maybe, you're behind the wheel.

My car had 250 hp stock, your buddy's has 280. His car is heavier than mine (930 to 930).

That's completely irrelevant! How heavy is you're excellent handlng EVO in comparison to the Porsche?

My Evo makes around 380 at the crank and does the quarter in the low 12's.

Irrelavant again! How much power did you're EVO make stock, in comparison to the 930's "stock" for 89' 280HP?

... incidently, his 930 is in the 11's!

The 930 can't ever handle well due to it's rear weight bias.

LMMFAO!

The 930 slant-nose is one of the most highly sought after Porsche's of all time. Considered to be the most desired exotic even to date, by most. You have no idea what you're talking about!

If you do your homework you'll realize it wouldn't be much of a race.

If you re-read my initial post, I spoke nothing of running in the quarter mile (despite his 930 still being able to wipe the floor with you're twelve second EVO in the 1/4 mile)....

Beyond that, you're the one who made the original statement. I'm the one bringing the facts.

What facts? That you're "modified" EVO can take on a stock 930 slant-nosed Turbo? That you're weaker 930 can actually compare with a 89' 930 slant-nosed Turbo? I think you need to get you're "facts" straight....

... no disrespect.

Edit: For those who are interested, here's a good read on some of it's history;

When the now famous Porsche 935 'Moby Dick' came out in 1978, it sported a new front design which eliminated the 911's round headlights, forming a totally flat hood 'slant nose' or slope nose. In 1981 Porsche offered a Slant Nose conversion in Europe under the Exclusive label in Werks I. It wasn't until 1987 for the US market that the Porsche factory began offering the Slant Nose body option to the 930 Turbo. Porsche factory began offering the Slant Nose body option to the 930 Turbo. The Porsche 930S is the 930 Turbo Slant Nose, with the option codes M505-Slant Nose (USA) or M506-Slant Nose (RoW) 'Rest of the World'. Generally, the factory built Slant Nose configurations were built at twice the price of the car. These cars now are worth much more than the normal body style, while the aftermarket Slant Nose cars are worth a little less than the factory Slant Nose price.

Flachbau is a very rare edition of the exotic Porsche 930S Turbo 3.3 from the actual Porsche factory Werks I. The Porsche 930S, Turbo 930 Slant Nose is the worlds greatest exotic sports car. These are very rare exotic sports cars; with less than 300 produced for the US market over its lifetime. There is very little published technical data on them, and what I have been able to find has been assimilated here on this website.

930S.com Porsche Slant Nose -- During the the 80's Porsche produced the 930S Turbo 3.3 as a limited and exclusive model based on 935 Moby Dick racer. The cars were modified by a special department of the factory to remind the public of the look and the success of the 935 'Moby Dick' race car. With its striking looks and its improved engine, the 930S turbo 3.3 Flachbau is really exciting to drive and the accelerations of the turbocharged engine will plant you firmly into the seat.

The 930S is a very rare car since less than 500 of these models were ever manufactured in the world. Between 1987 to 1989 a total of 300 cars were sent to the US. 930 / 911 Turbo Body w/factory slant nose production numbers from Porsche. From 1981 through 1986 under the Exclusive label in Werks I a total of 262 cars were built. Between 40 and 60 930S slant nose cars per year.

In 1987 through 1989 Porsche made both the Targa and a Cabriolet available as a Turbo model as well as the traditional 911 Turbo coupes, in addition to the standard production cars. Porsche has been doing custom work for their customers in Europe at their customer service department in Werks I for several years now. A few years ago they started a program that they call the "Sonderwunsche-Programm" (Special Wishes Program) where they offered their customers a catalog of conversions, modifications and customizing work. Starting with the slant nose body option PCNA is starting to offer a version of this program to their US customers as the "Porsche Exclusive Program".

All of the original Slant Nose Conversions built before 1987 were built by Werks I by their Special Wishes program. You cannot tell these cars by their VIN number. You can ask Porsche and it is possible that they can tell you. After 1987 the Slant Nose version was manufactured in production under option number A 505. The M505 is a USA/Canada version of the 930 Turbo based on the body types coupe, Targa and Convertible and M506-Slant Nose is the (RoW) or 'Rest of the World' version.

M505 and M506 -- cars have the following conversions: Slant nose with concealed headlights Wheel house vents (Louvers) in front fenders Entrance trim panels (boxed rockers) left and right Air inlet ducts (brake ducts) with connectors in rear fenders Oil cooler with blower in right rear air inlet duct.

Because these cars are built and modified by Porsche they are able to keep their complete new cars warranty. This series of cars marked the first time that the factory-modified cars have been made available to US customers through the factory organization and PCNA. Prior to this first series built in 1987 all slope nose conversions in the US were either grey market cars or cars that were converted by an independent body shop or tuning firm as the specialty shops are called in Europe. In either case these cars were not covered by the factory warranties in the United States.

930S Turbo Slant Nose US Version (M505)

In 1981 through 1986 you cannot tell from the VIN number if car came from the factory as a slant nose or was converted. You can actually get the build codes or order a certificate of authenticity from Porsche. Several things can identify most conversions. The easiest is, none of the Porsche slant nose setups ran square headlights or separate motors in each bucket. The original headlights were more or less from a 944, along with the shrouds, and the motor. A single motor inside the trunk drove both motors via a large rod. Much like the 944-headlight setup. Most of the aftermarket versions are not this way and even if they have the round headlights the buckets are sealed with separate motors in each bucket. None of the conversions are known to have a replica of the single factory motor headlights. Most of the "good" builders of these aftermarket parts are long gone. The major players in the game were DP, Goldencoach works, VIP to name a few. The option codes will tell you if it was an slant option, unless it was a Special Werks car with the version I fenders.

930S changes included the air inlet ducts (brake ducts) with connectors in rear fenders for a oil cooler with blower in right rear air inlet duct. The original setup kept the same bumper assembly and accordion trim, however, on 930S production cars, the lower front valance on a factory built slope nose was made from fiberglass. The factory panel on a slope nose had opening on both sides for flush mounted driving/fog lights as well as an opening for a front mounted oil cooler as well. It was painted the same color as the rest of the body and had a smooth finish to it. This differed from other 911s and 930s that had a rough texture on them due to the stone guard that was applied to them, and then painted to match the body.

The slope nose "option" (which does not show in the VIN) was not offered by Porsche in the US until 1987, so the earlier slope nose cars would have been aftermarket conversions of production cars or European slope nose cars imported into the US. You can detect a RoW (Rest of the World) car from a US conversion car by the VIN.....

By the way, for those who are bent on the concept that AWD is simply better in reference to handling... has anyone ever wondered why the worlds greatest handling cars in the world, Formula One, don't even bother with such a concept?

[cj8718]

Lethal,

Rather than respond to your bleating piece by piece I'll just give it to you all in one shot.

If your friend has run is 930 at a drag strip he's the only one I've ever heard of doing that. I, personally, think your full of shit. You can certainly prove me wrong. Provide a list of his mods or, better yet, how about a time slip. I'm betting you won't do either but will instead come up w/ excuses and mis-directions that don't accomplish this.

And another thing, quit mentioning the fact that his car is a slant as though that means something here. Most true Porschefiles consider that blasphemy - why make a work of art look like a first-gen RX-7? It certainly doesn't help w/ performance which, by the way, is the ENTIRE POINT of this argument. Let it go, Sparky.

BTW, re: AWD and handling, why do you think it is that Audi race cars MURDER everything they race against. EVERYTHING. Hint: AWD.

Lastly, I love 930's. I'll have another someday - soon I hope. I said it before and I'll say it again: an '03 or newer Evo will smoke a 930 in any test of speed or handling, stock for stock (pre-91). I get my info from experience and numbers generated by reputable testers. You get yours from someplace south and to the rear of your belt buckle.

There's nothing magical about Porsches or 930's no matter what you'd like to believe. Maybe your buddy has brainwashed you. Whatever, I'm done w/ you.

[Street Lethal]

I don't know your real name or location, so I can't address you in a more personal manner. You're information in pertinence to Porsche's history is of an empty nature, not necessarily truthful facts. You're facts and knowledge are as false as the lies you purposely directed through your outlines and argument.

I honestly now question you're overall knowledge of Porsche, since I would strictly view your accessible information in terms of both denotative, and connotative information as stagnant material in the perimeter, and not the area of the truth. I suggest that you rethink the integrity of a fact, and understand the integrity of an unproven word maybe superficial....

Providing a list of mods is meaningless, except to PC racers such as yourself. If those residing in New Jersey are interested, we're at Raceway Park every Wednesday and Friday night. I myself could care less "what" you know and believe, but perhaps hearing it from other members would ultimately satisfy such a humble request.

I'm honestly done with you as well, but I on the other hand will be the grown up here... and state that it's been pretty interesting speaking with you. I would never lower myself to such a level, and state that I think you're full of crap. On the contrary, I wouldn't really need to. You're opinionated "facts" do a very good job all by themselves....

[LS666]

Leave it to a Porche snob "the world's greatest exotic sportscar" The 911 and any of it's contrived, bloated, back-engineered bastard children is and are, in my opinion, the biggest design mistake ever undertaken by any major vehicle manufacturer (with the possible exception of the the Yugo and Vega). Why Porche stuck with this bizzare arrangement after the original design of the beatle is beyond me. Years of "refinement" and development to get it to the place where it is today is a joke. I wouldn't own a rear engined, air cooled anything, much less a 911 (et al.) And how much does a 930 or 911 turbo cost?? They actually seem proud of 280 HP. I'd much rather have a 928. Everyone knows that Ferraris are the most sought after exotic. Now those were designed right from the beginning. I'm sorry, but Porche snobbery is lost on me, an objective, rational, thinking individual not enslaved by brand indoctrination and brainwashing. Is this off topic? We were ranting about "imports". And to answer the above question, why F1 doesn't use AWD, well, they don't need it. An F1 car weighs all of what, 1200 pounds? AWD on an F1 car would be a HUGE weight penalty, one that would be useless in the type of racing being done. On the same note, why does F1 use mid engine and not rear engine like Porche?