Desktop didn't want to POST or boot up

**JayTA98** · 08-02-2013, 04:21 AM

Hey guys. I have been putting together my own PC's since windows 98 so I know how to get around. I'm not an expert so that's why I'm asking for input. Here is the issue. The PC is about 5 yrs old. The mobo, CPU, PS and RAM is the same one since I built it. A few days ago I upgraded to an SSD drive. The drive worked awesome and no issues were found. The next day I was watching a video and the screen froze up and the speakers made and awful noise. I hit the restart button and the screen turn off and the PC will not POST or boot up. I can hear the fans running.

I opened the case thinking it was related to my SSD. I also have two more HDs. I turned the power off and disconnected the SSD. I have the same results, nothing. At this point I know is not the SSD and I started the process of elimination. I pull every componenet one by one and same results. I only had left my mobo, CPU, RAM and PS. I have 2 sticks of RAM so I pulled one out. I did heard the PC POST, so I said to myself is must the RAM. I put the RAM stick back and it POST again. weird I said. I put every component back and the PC POST and boot back to normal.

The PC ran fine for at least 5-6 hrs then I got a BSOD. The PC restarted by itself and it ran fine so far.

Here is the setup I have:

MSI 785GTM-E45 mobo
AMD Phenom 9850 2.5Ghz
Corsair XM2 PC6400 DDR2 4Gb total (2x2gb)
Thermaltake blue orb cpu fan
Antec true 430w PS
Three case fans
BFG Geforce 9800GT 1Gb video card PCI-E
1 SSD drive 120Gb
1 SATA HD 150Gb
1 IDE HD 150Gb
DVD R/W drive
7-8 USB devices ( I play flight simulators)

So I'm thinking is either bad RAM, weak PS or CPU overheating perhaps? I checked my CPU temp and it is 39C at idle and up to 54C when playing games. I think the CPU is getting too hot. I believe the CPU fan is not rated for this CPU which is weird since I have been using that fan for 5 yrs. I believe I have way too much stuff for the PS or it's weak so I maybe to upgrade to a bigger PS.

I posted in Tomshardware site but I only got one response and was told to check the temps and check a PS calculator. I did the PS calculator with the new card I'm going to get and it says minimum should be 407w PS which I think that's too low for a EVGA Geforce GTX 650Ti SSC video card.

So I'm asking my PC builders and tech for advice. What do you guys think?

**theorangeguy** · 08-02-2013, 06:52 AM

I would pull the CPU and check the thermal paste between it and the heat sink for the CPU fan...if its old and crusty I would recommend cleaning it off and putting a new coat on it, reseat everything and boot it up to see if it over heats. If it BSOD's again, try to hit the pause button on your keyboard while the blue screen is up so you can get the error code and we can go from there...

**KahanaReef** · 08-02-2013, 08:37 AM

The last time I came across a similar issue, it was the video card.

**JayTA98** · 08-02-2013, 09:12 AM

hmm its fairly. but I pulled the card out and the mobo didnt boot up or post.

**theorangeguy** · 08-02-2013, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by JayTA98

hmm its fairly. but I pulled the card out and the mobo didnt boot up or post.

just for laughs, unplug the PC from the wall...pop the power button a couple of times to get the stored juice out of the powersupply. Pull the CMOS battery and let it sit for a few minutes, reboot it and go through the bios and set everything up again.

do you really think its over heating or do you think its something else?

**KahanaReef** · 08-02-2013, 10:26 AM

I would guess he's already popped the battery.

Is it possible that the other HD is on the way out?

**theorangeguy** · 08-02-2013, 10:28 AM

it could be a video driver failure too...boot it into safe mode with networking and let it run for a little while and see if it does the same thing. If it doesnt BSOD then its probably the video driver...

**JayTA98** · 08-02-2013, 11:00 AM

well is either overheating or a faulty ram stick. in the whole process it took about 15 mins before it started again.

**JayTA98** · 08-02-2013, 11:01 AM

no, the board didnt boot up with no drives attached. the pc is.working now. it has.not happened again.

**initechpeter** · 08-02-2013, 11:28 AM

I would say the Ram might be having an issue. Ram is cheap now days.

**NE-Firebird** · 08-02-2013, 12:58 PM

Next time, look for lights on the MB or the case to light up at all.
Even without a CPU, the lights should "flash on" for a very short time.

Power Supplies are the number one failures. If a power supply goes, it can take out everything - that includes the disk/SSD.
Hopefully, you have a disk backup.

Could be RAM, or power supply.

It's unlikely the CPU. Those don't typically work/don't-work/work/don't-work/etc.

Most top quailty video cards are pretty good. MSI MBs are also good - that's what I had when I had an AMD system (many years ago).

Still, even 5 years can be a lot for a PC that runs hot. Many home-built PCs don't have adequate cooling.
That's why I went with an all-in-one water cooling setup. I use the CORSAIR Hydro Series H80i Water Cooler. Dumping hot air from the processor inside the case is foolish. That's why Dell/etc usually vent the CPU fan directly outside the case.
The CORSAIR Hydro Series H80i. Imho, a very good investment.:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835181031

Good Luck!

**JayTA98** · 08-02-2013, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by NE-Firebird

Next time, look for lights on the MB or the case to light up at all.
Even without a CPU, the lights should "flash on" for a very short time.

Power Supplies are the number one failures. If a power supply goes, it can take out everything - that includes the disk/SSD.
Hopefully, you have a disk backup.

Could be RAM, or power supply.

It's unlikely the CPU. Those don't typically work/don't-work/work/don't-work/etc.

Most top quailty video cards are pretty good. MSI MBs are also good - that's what I had when I had an AMD system (many years ago).

Still, even 5 years can be a lot for a PC that runs hot. Many home-built PCs don't have adequate cooling.
That's why I went with an all-in-one water cooling setup. I use the CORSAIR Hydro Series H80i Water Cooler. Dumping hot air from the processor inside the case is foolish. That's why Dell/etc usually vent the CPU fan directly outside the case.
The CORSAIR Hydro Series H80i. Imho, a very good investment.:
CORSAIR H80i Water Cooler - Newegg.com

Good Luck!

That sounds and looks good. I saw them at my local store but my case won't work with that set up. I don't have a hole to attach the unit to vent out. I have to get a new case in the future for my new build and I will give this set up a try. I upgraded the CPU fan to a better one and I'm testing to see if it makes a difference with the temps. If it doesn't I will return it. I got a Thermaltake 600w PS but I haven't install it yet. I'm doing some more testing.

**JayTA98** · 08-02-2013, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by initechpeter

I would say the Ram might be having an issue. Ram is cheap now days.

Yes it could be RAM related. I'm hoping it does it again so I can pull the RAM stick one at a time and find out.

**JayTA98** · 08-02-2013, 08:32 PM

I ran 3d mark constantly, starcraft 2 and a youtube video and the highest the temp got with the new CPU cooler was 48C. The lowest was 38C. I better that before but not by much. I was reading about the normal operating temp of the 1st gen of Phenoms and it should not be pass 62C but they are supposed to run hot. I think I might return the new CPU cooler since I never passed 54C with the old one.

The only other 2 things are the PS or the RAM. The PS I can use in my future build, the RAM not so much. The issue has not happen again so I can try removing the RAM only again. It could have been a coincidence or by the time I reached the RAM, the CPU or PS had cool down. I just don't see the CPU getting that hot unless the fan stopped working, and it hasn't.

**NE-Firebird** · 08-04-2013, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by JayTA98

That sounds and looks good. I saw them at my local store but my case won't work with that set up. I don't have a hole to attach the unit to vent out. I have to get a new case in the future for my new build and I will give this set up a try. I upgraded the CPU fan to a better one and I'm testing to see if it makes a difference with the temps. If it doesn't I will return it. I got a Thermaltake 600w PS but I haven't install it yet. I'm doing some more testing.

The cooler attaches to where the case exhaust fan is.
Imho, I like using the back exhaust better.

Regardless, I do not think the problem is with the CPU or the cooler (as long as the fan is working

).
It's more likely the PS or the RAM.
If you do get a new PS, make sure that it's Intel Haswell compatible! The new Haswell takes very little power when in deep idle mode. ALL Power Supplies have some "min" current needed to keep them regulated. Some may have internal load resistors, so that no external load is needed. But, that makes heat, takes space, reduces efficiently, etc. Also, I like COSAIR for a PS because I don't want my PS to be nuking my system and disks. Imho, the extra cost is well worth it.

Good Luck!

**JayTA98** · 08-05-2013, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by NE-Firebird

The cooler attaches to where the case exhaust fan is.
Imho, I like using the back exhaust better.

Regardless, I do not think the problem is with the CPU or the cooler (as long as the fan is working

).
It's more likely the PS or the RAM.
If you do get a new PS, make sure that it's Intel Haswell compatible! The new Haswell takes very little power when in deep idle mode. ALL Power Supplies have some "min" current needed to keep them regulated. Some may have internal load resistors, so that no external load is needed. But, that makes heat, takes space, reduces efficiently, etc. Also, I like COSAIR for a PS because I don't want my PS to be nuking my system and disks. Imho, the extra cost is well worth it.

Good Luck!

That's a nice looking case and setup you got there. I cant use a liquid cooling system because my case is old tower type and doesn't have the big grills like yours so I can't install it. I have to get a new case in the future. I'm also thinking the CPU fan is not the issue. My blue ord 2 is very old and it supposedly doesn't support amd phenomx4 processors. I kinda like the new CPU cooler because I points the airflow to the rear case fans so I can see improving airflow, but you are right I don't think is the issue. I'm debating if I keep it or not. I pay 38 bucks and it says it supports AM3, AM3+, FM1, Corei3, i5 and i7 so I can always use in future builds. It a cooler master Hyper n520. Got real good reviews.

I bought a corsair CX600M PS but haven't install it yet. I'm waiting for the video card to arrive. Do you think the temperatures I was getting with the blue orb are with in normal range? It just sucks the problem is happening again so I can't really pinpoint it.

**initechpeter** · 08-05-2013, 09:49 AM

Back in the hay days of my computer building. I remember running a program that would test your computers hardware. Push it to the limits and give you a detailed text file of the results. I would say find something on line and run it. You might have several small issues that are making very hard to diag.

Something like this:

PassMark BurnInTest software - PC Reliability and Load Testing

**NE-Firebird** · 08-05-2013, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by JayTA98

I'm also thinking the CPU fan is not the issue. My blue ord 2 is very old and it supposedly doesn't support amd phenomx4 processors.

I bought a corsair CX600M PS but haven't install it yet. I'm waiting for the video card to arrive. Do you think the temperatures I was getting with the blue orb are with in normal range? It just sucks the problem is happening again so I can't really pinpoint it.

That's not my setup.

Those pics are from Corsair's website. I have a full-size server-class NZXT case.

No longer offered.

No problem, I thought ahead and bought a spare.

http://www.amazon.com/Whisper-Black-...dp/B001H9ALF2/

In general, you want temps below 110F. Over that, is hot for anything. You need remote temperature sensors to really know the temps. Most CPUs have a temperature sensor inside. Intel has been doing that for a while. Many motherboards also have temp sensors on the board.

But, none of that tells a person how hot the video card is (many will have temp sensors on them), how hot the memory is, or how hot the disks are, etc. That's why I use scythe "fan controller", with remote temperature sensors, in order to monitor my ram, disk, video card, and CPU temperatures. I don't use the fan control part of it at all.

And, with any RPM input, the rpm display turns off - nice!

With the scythe "fan controller", I can quickly look and see what the temps are - no need to run multiple programs.

From the work/no-work/work/no-work symptoms, it's "more likely" the ram or video card. CPUs rarely do that. They will shut down if they get too hot. When power supplies go bad, they often fail and then that is the end of that power supply.

My best guess is that ram. But, that's a guess, based on probability.

If you have 4 sticks of RAM, you can try running with just 2. See if that makes a difference. Of course, you have 4 sticks, and you'll use two. So, you have 4 choose 2 combinations. So, you have 6 combinations of using 2 ram sticks. And, if three or four sticks are bad, then no combination will work.

Again, check to see if on the motherboard if any lights come on, for any period of time when the PC does not work. Also, see if the disks spin up.

Since you're getting another power supply, try the new power supply. From the sounds of the problem, I don't think that the problem would stress the new power supply.

Then, try the new video card. But, if it was the video card, then it's "likely" that the PC would boot up (at least do a POST) and the disks would be running.

Check ebay for cheap memory. In general, the older memory isn't as cheap as people would think. But, you may be able to pick up 2 sticks for a decent price. Heck, even check used CPUs. Depending on the CPU, you can get some used CPUs pretty cheap - especially the slower versions.

At least the above will keep you going until yo have a chance to fully spec out a new PC, to build it, to load software on it, to put win8 with classic shell on it, etc.
Making Windows 8 Usable: Classic Shell

http://www.classicshell.net/

BTW, an ebay seller was selling Win8 upgrade for ~$50 - a steal! That's what the upgrade cost before it was released (pre sale by Microsoft). Heck, imho, even $99 is a steal. Also, use Microsoft's anti-virus, don't pay for one.

Good Luck!

**wileyCoyote** · 08-06-2013, 03:18 PM

a couple other things, ...

- try upgrading to latest nvidia driver... could be a bug that gets fixed w/ the newer ver..

- i use speedfan and GPU-Z to monitor temps, ...both freeware...

**JayTA98** · 08-06-2013, 03:35 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys. So far the issue has not re-occurred. I received my new graphics card today. I installed a new Corsair CX600M PS and a EVGA Geforce GTX 650Ti SC Boost. I had to return the new cpu cooler because it started to make excessive noise even at power up. I installed my old Blue Orb 2 back. I did noticed that all my case fans had bearing noise so I went ahead and replaced those(they are 5 yrs old). I installed 3 silentX's fans. The loudest is 15dba so they are extremely quiet. The PS is whisper quiet.

I ran 3dmark tests and it was normal. The system is kinda old to run really good on the high graphics tests but it runs it. If the problem happens again I will get me some memory from ebay. I'm not trying to buy anything extra since I want to built my new system soon. I'm going to get a new case, motherboard, cpu, memory, bluray drive and cpu cooler(I might look into liquid cooling). I will then put together my old system to sell it or sell the parts on ebay. I'm going to try to get some money back for my old BFG Geforce 9800 GT but I'm expecting like $20-$30. The new PS was $60 after rebate and the video card was $150 after rebate.

As you can see my case is very old. It is about 7 yrs old and it's heavy. Not too many options to install liquid cooling without cutting metal. I just want to get the bluray player so I can remove the IDE drive and ugly ass IDE round cable.