GTP vs LT1 Camaro

**Smittro** · 11-24-2009, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

i thought your guy's internals were a weak point ..

Well for me I hear conflicting things about the 3800II internals. So I'll be going full forged when I do my blower...
More for reliability rather than for drag..

**EnjoiJoe** · 11-24-2009, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

i thought your guy's internals were a weak point ..

They are and I am very weary about doing those mods, but I want to go fast haha. I might end up selling the gtp though and upgrade to a G35, TA or a GTO. Hopefully the GTO or TA though but I am afraid that if I get one of those that It will impractical because it would be my DD.

**JRENIGAR** · 11-30-2009, 08:36 AM

my car had the exact same mods from 40k till I sold it at 165k and was still churnin out ass whoopins for the close to stock 99-03 gt's in the area. I dont think the stock internals are weak they just wont take alot of kr from a bad tune.

**EnjoiJoe** · 11-30-2009, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by JRENIGAR

my car had the exact same mods from 40k till I sold it at 165k and was still churnin out ass whoopins for the close to stock 99-03 gt's in the area. I dont think the stock internals are weak they just wont take alot of kr from a bad tune.

Exactly I you have a pulley with no supporting mods you engine will blow to pieces

**wooddaniel** · 11-30-2009, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by EnjoiJoe

They are and I am very weary about doing those mods, but I want to go fast haha. I might end up selling the gtp though and upgrade to a G35, TA or a GTO. Hopefully the GTO or TA though but I am afraid that if I get one of those that It will impractical because it would be my DD.

A T/A has been my daily driver for the past ten years. Not impractical at all and gets better mileage than lots of cars

**Zinergy** · 12-01-2009, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by wooddaniel

A T/A has been my daily driver for the past ten years. Not impractical at all and gets better mileage than lots of cars

some people have more needs than MPG, interior space, cargo space, towing cap, snow.

**wooddaniel** · 12-01-2009, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

some people have more needs than MPG, interior space, cargo space, towing cap, snow.

Yeah, true. Not so good in the snow. I have fit a lot of stuff in my TA though. my GTO actually had less cargo room than the WS6 because the trunk is so small

**mitchiels1** · 12-09-2009, 05:48 PM

[QUOTE=ls1camino;2148215]2000 2-Door...guesstimating about 300 to the wheels

Experienced w-body/ ex-gtp owner here. Sounds like a nice car. Your current mods (3.4, headers, downpipe, intake and thermostat) won't get ya 300 to the wheels. W-bodies really are known for their shitty dyno numbers. Those mods might get ya 240 to the wheels. When my GTP ran 13.71@101 it had intake, 3.5 pulley, powerlog, 3" downpipe, AL104s and HP tune. And ya, a tune will wake that car right up like nobody's business. Put the GTP on the dyno for baseline pull...made 189 @ the wheels. Custom HP tune brought me up to 227whp! just from the tune! It was friggin awesome!

Good luck with future modding...cam and intercooler sound like good next mods and you should probably get a cat-back on that thing too. A 2.5" catback on a GTP reeeealllly makes a difference up top.

**Wesman** · 12-09-2009, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

i thought your guy's internals were a weak point ..

Not sure where you heard that from

The L67 bottom end is damn near bulletproof. As far as its known, nobody has actually blown one up from power production alone. Theres guy on the GTP forums with a full bolt on whipple charged L67 making 570WHP on the stock bottom end reliably. Very impressive.

**shady milkman** · 12-10-2009, 04:59 AM

its my understanding from the GTP community that the pistons are the problem.

one guy making that power does not mean its the norm.....Ed is running over 666 through his 10 bolt ...

**Zinergy** · 12-10-2009, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by Wesman

Not sure where you heard that from

The L67 bottom end is damn near bulletproof. As far as its known, nobody has actually blown one up from power production alone. Theres guy on the GTP forums with a full bolt on whipple charged L67 making 570WHP on the stock bottom end reliably. Very impressive.

You sound like a ricer, My DSM is bullet proof cause my friend is making 500whp on his stock engine.

That is obviously not the norm

**Smittro** · 12-10-2009, 05:55 AM

The 3800 has shity stock internals. Some may pull off high HP numbers here and there but the 3800 is far from bullet proof and is being replaced with the far superior 60*v6. The 660 is a far better balanced internally as opposed to the bullshit 3800 counter shaft balanced engine. I don't hate the 3800 tho for obvious reasons. If they are built properly with forged internals they can be built to pull wheel stands. However 60* is a near perfect distance center to center in a Vee engine cylinder spread.

The Doc is out..

**Wesman** · 12-10-2009, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

its my understanding from the GTP community that the pistons are the problem.

one guy making that power does not mean its the norm.....Ed is running over 666 through his 10 bolt ...

Didn't say it was the norm. I merely said it was possible. Plenty of guys are still pushing over 400WHP on stock engines though, all it takes it a turbo kit.

Originally Posted by Zinergy

You sound like a ricer, My DSM is bullet proof cause my friend is making 500whp on his stock engine.

That is obviously not the norm

The difference is DSM's are built like complete pieces of shit and blow up every day. The 3800 Series is the same legendary engine that was in the Grand National. DSM's are legendary for being white trash ricer cars.

**FreakV6** · 12-11-2009, 07:32 AM

my friend is acutally thinking about selling his gtp right now, and i may pick it up.

3.2 pulley, ssic, ported sc and lim, zzp tb,headers, all the other supporting bs. Here is a dyno video, gotta love that whine.

http://s515.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=MVI_1195.flv

http://s515.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=MVI_1196.flv

**mitchiels1** · 12-11-2009, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Smittro

The 3800 has shity stock internals. Some may pull off high HP numbers here and there but the 3800 is far from bullet proof and is being replaced with the far superior 60*v6. The 660 is a far better balanced internally as opposed to the bullshit 3800 counter shaft balanced engine. I don't hate the 3800 tho for obvious reasons. If they are built properly with forged internals they can be built to pull wheel stands. However 60* is a near perfect distance center to center in a Vee engine cylinder spread.

The Doc is out..

IDK where you're getting your info from. The 3.8L has shitty stock internals? What do you mean by this? Which parts are shitty? I know of an 11 sec regal GS with BOLT ONS and there are many more out there, and daily driven, reliable 12 second 3.8Ls. 5 of my buddies have regal GS's and all are pushing the 150k mile mark and all are running smaller pullies. The reliability is there and so is the aftermarket support! Which 60 degree engine do you speak of that is "far superior" to this reliable, cheap, pushrod engine? The only REAL issues with the 3.8Ls is the intake manifold gasket... and the shitty transmission that GM paired this awesome motor with. Other than that, there are countless ones that have gone half a million miles. Go on regal GS forums and grand prix forums and do some reading. Tonnes of cars over 150,000 miles with mods and still being raced

**Smittro** · 12-11-2009, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by mitchiels1

IDK where you're getting your info from. The 3.8L has shitty stock internals? What do you mean by this? Which parts are shitty? I know of an 11 sec regal GS with BOLT ONS and there are many more out there, and daily driven, reliable 12 second 3.8Ls. 5 of my buddies have regal GS's and all are pushing the 150k mile mark and all are running smaller pullies. The reliability is there and so is the aftermarket support! Which 60 degree engine do you speak of that is "far superior" to this reliable, cheap, pushrod engine? The only REAL issues with the 3.8Ls is the intake manifold gasket... and the shitty transmission that GM paired this awesome motor with. Other than that, there are countless ones that have gone half a million miles. Go on regal GS forums and grand prix forums and do some reading. Tonnes of cars over 150,000 miles with mods and still being raced

I get my info from nearly 20 years pissing exclusively with 60* and 90* v6's. Like I've said in many forums you'll come across some that go over life expectancy as well as some that hold up to power with stock internals but it's far from the norm. Also like I said, I don't hate the motors that's why I own one. There are also plenty of 60* v6 's that have gone over the mileage you've stated too. Go to 60degreev6.com and like wise do some reading...

**Smittro** · 12-11-2009, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by mitchiels1

IDK where you're getting your info from. The 3.8L has shitty stock internals? What do you mean by this? Which parts are shitty? I know of an 11 sec regal GS with BOLT ONS and there are many more out there, and daily driven, reliable 12 second 3.8Ls. 5 of my buddies have regal GS's and all are pushing the 150k mile mark and all are running smaller pullies. The reliability is there and so is the aftermarket support! Which 60 degree engine do you speak of that is "far superior" to this reliable, cheap, pushrod engine? The only REAL issues with the 3.8Ls is the intake manifold gasket... and the shitty transmission that GM paired this awesome motor with. Other than that, there are countless ones that have gone half a million miles. Go on regal GS forums and grand prix forums and do some reading. Tonnes of cars over 150,000 miles with mods and still being raced

Oh and internally speaking ALL 60* v6 engines are superior in @ least one way by comming from the factory with forged connecting rods. Then we get into the angle between the "Vee", 60* center to center is the optimum angle and does'nt require a counter balance shaft to keep it from self destructing, and the oil pump is in the same config as many, many engines including v8's. One does'nt have to nearly tear the entire engine down to get to it either.. The 3800 is being replaced in passenger cars and Camaro by the 60*v6's...

And the "Northststar v8* can be traced back to the 60* TDC.. Which if I may add has been making over 200hp N/A stock long before any 90* 3800 N/A stock was.. The Doc is out........

**Smittro** · 12-12-2009, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by Smittro

I get my info from nearly 20 years pissing exclusively with 60* and 90* v6's. Like I've said in many forums you'll come across some that go over life expectancy as well as some that hold up to power with stock internals but it's far from the norm. Also like I said, I don't hate the motors that's why I own one. There are also plenty of 60* v6 's that have gone over the mileage you've stated too. Go to 60degreev6.com and like wise do some reading...

Originally Posted by Smittro

Oh and internally speaking ALL 60* v6 engines are superior in @ least one way by comming from the factory with forged connecting rods. Then we get into the angle between the "Vee", 60* center to center is the optimum angle and does'nt require a counter balance shaft to keep it from self destructing, and the oil pump is in the same config as many, many engines including v8's. One does'nt have to nearly tear the entire engine down to get to it either.. The 3800 is being replaced in passenger cars and Camaro by the 60*v6's...

And the "Northststar v8* can be traced back to the 60* TDC.. Which if I may add has been making over 200hp N/A stock long before any 90* 3800 N/A stock was.. The Doc is out........

Now with all that said. I'm planning to go blown on my 3800II. There's no way in hell I'd slap a blower on my 3800 without forged internals and I don't even drag race. Quite frankly I don't trust it to hold up. I've heard plenty of horror stories and like wise plenty of cool/good stories. But as an owner of many 60* v6's from 2.8L to 3.4L TDC I can tell you from my personal experiance the 60* v6 is a far better motor. Like I've said I don't hate the 3800II for obvious reasons. Hell I've posted a thread of some impressive 3.8L motors pulling serious wheel stands. I say build what you like. I'm continueally learning here @ this site. But the fact is the all iron v6 motors are dinosaurs that GM is replacing them with the 60*v6 motors. Though I know some sh*t about v8's and built a few too, I'm a v6er @ heart and plan to stay that way. What someone else says it will do on stock internals does'nt impress me. The fact is they all have their problems. IMHO it would be stupid on any v6 to just stuff it full of boost and not do anything to the bottom end. But hell if that's what folks are doing more power to them.. You wont be seeing me doing half assed sh*t to any motor...

**AKA Speedy** · 12-13-2009, 09:10 AM

lol I have a 3800II v6 2002 Firebird (DD) and a 2002 WS6 trans am with H/C/LT's/3"exhaust/Tune/3.73gears.

I had had dreams of building up my V6, but when I started looking at stuff I soon came to the basis that buying a t/a and investing some money in it would ultimately give me more power and kinda be cheaper. I think I would cry if a V6 monte carlo/Grand Prix/camaro/firebird,etc. rolled out on me on the street.

**Smittro** · 12-13-2009, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by BrianH.WS6

lol I have a 3800II v6 2002 Firebird (DD) and a 2002 WS6 trans am with H/C/LT's/3"exhaust/Tune/3.73gears.

I had had dreams of building up my V6, but when I started looking at stuff I soon came to the basis that buying a t/a and investing some money in it would ultimately give me more power and kinda be cheaper. I think I would cry if a V6 monte carlo/Grand Prix/camaro/firebird,etc. rolled out on me on the street.

Haha, well get out your hanky cause there are 6ers out there that can walk you. (Smittro making big grin) But to each their own..