Torque Management

**pajeff02** · 01-29-2010, 10:30 AM

With the ongoing upgrades, it is time to send the PCM to Frost to work his magic. I recently read in another thread that modification of the "torque managment settings" can also improve the overall benefits of a tune. Can someone please explain this a bit as I am not sure I fully understand what exactly t/m is and the changes that are made. BTW - the car is equipped with an automatic transmission.

**redbird555** · 01-29-2010, 11:03 AM

Torque management is mainly there to help your tranny out. Every time the car shifts in high rpms or is stabbed off the line the computer retards the engine timing to reduce power and wear on the tranny. Removing torque management will solve this issue I noticed a significant improvement off the line kick and a slight better up top shift.

**pajeff02** · 01-29-2010, 11:59 AM

Ok -- that makes sense. I know I had read something in my tuning books about it a few months ago, but for the life of me could not remember what it was.

**35th-ANV-SS** · 01-29-2010, 12:55 PM

You may be able to ask Frost what he can do in the area of just modifying some of the TM areas as opposed to fully removing it....that is if you are worried about removing it. Something of this nature may take more than one go around though, so if you're looking to do a one-time tune, it may be best to just fully remove it out.

In most cases that I have seen and people I know, they fully remove it and said it made a noticeable difference off the line and in shifting, like above mentioned.

**pajeff02** · 01-29-2010, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS

You may be able to ask Frost what he can do in the area of just modifying some of the TM areas as opposed to fully removing it....that is if you are worried about removing it. Something of this nature may take more than one go around though, so if you're looking to do a one-time tune, it may be best to just fully remove it out.

In most cases that I have seen and people I know, they fully remove it and said it made a noticeable difference off the line and in shifting, like above mentioned.

I have a stock trans. So long as it does not significantly increase the risk of tearing things up I will go with whatever Frost recommends as part of his mail order package. Unfortunately, I am just too far away to sneak in a dyno tune. Drawback of living in the sticks.

**mrr23** · 01-29-2010, 06:54 PM

a webpage i made explaining the torque management and what it looks like in the PCM tables.

**pajeff02** · 01-30-2010, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by mrr23

a webpage i made explaining the torque management and what it looks like in the PCM tables.

^^ Missing a link?

**0rion** · 01-30-2010, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by pajeff02

^^ Missing a link?

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/hptuners.htm

just have frost remove it altogether. You can't mod a car hoping it never breaks.

I've been running with TM zero'd for a few years.

**pajeff02** · 01-30-2010, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by 0rion

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/hptuners.htm

just have frost remove it altogether. You can't mod a car hoping it never breaks.

I've been running with TM zero'd for a few years.

Thank you!

**pajeff02** · 03-03-2010, 06:36 PM

Now I am reading in a recent thread that deleting T/M can have adverse consequences on 2nd gear. Is it better to modify it than delete it totally? Tim likes to live on the edge... I do not. I just received my PCM back from Frost a few weeks ago, but not sure if he alters the T/M settings or not.

**35th-ANV-SS** · 03-03-2010, 06:45 PM

Well, IMO, TM is there for a reason. To help with wear and tear on the stock trans. GM obviously put it there for a reason. The A4 has been known to fail with stock power and now you are removing TM which will add more stress on it....

Flip side of the coin is...why mod a car only to allow TM to reduce the torque seen? Kind of ironic.

Remove it all together!!! If it breaks, just start another "building my trans thread" Jeff!

**67CamaroRSSS** · 03-03-2010, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by 0rion

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/hptuners.htm

just have frost remove it altogether. You can't mod a car hoping it never breaks.

I've been running with TM zero'd for a few years.

I agree. I deleted TM in favor of a shift improver kit (and a few other internal mods) when I installed the 3400 stall. Shifts much better than before.

**Z28Thunder** · 03-03-2010, 07:31 PM

I will say this from personal experience. While trying to run 11's I had TM turned off on my 4l60E. I would say in a week or less it started hitting the rev limiter in 2nd. And not much longer after that it was hitting the limiter in 4th. I know of many local 4th Gen LS1 4l60E fbodies that ran into this same issue. This could be due to bad tune or a 4l60E's that were already starting to fail. I now run a Stage 3 4l60E with a shift kit,manual valvebody,deeper pan and yes the TM is turned off. I have had no issues IMO since going manual valvebody.

**jetaws6** · 03-03-2010, 07:40 PM

I am guessing it would be a lot less of an issue on a manual trans because they are rated higher?

**67CamaroRSSS** · 03-03-2010, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by jetaws6

I am guessing it would be a lot less of an issue on a manual trans because they are rated higher?

Only A4's have TM. M6 you shift on your own.

**Z28Thunder** · 03-03-2010, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

Only A4's have TM. M6 you shift on your own.

Thanks I didnt have the heart to post that...

**pajeff02** · 03-04-2010, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS

Remove it all together!!! If it breaks, just start another "building my trans thread" Jeff!

Thanks for the replies... and the taunt.

Unfortunately, I have to rely upon others if my A4 blows. That is the one thing that I do not believe I would dare tackle on my own.

**jetaws6** · 03-04-2010, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

Only A4's have TM. M6 you shift on your own.

You guys said it was for off the line as well thats why I wasnt sure. I thought it was just something like traction control only different.

**408WS6** · 03-04-2010, 07:51 AM

Torque management was created by GM to (in my opinion) make the weak 4L60E last longer. Instead of admitting that the 4L60E is basically a POS, they put in TM so they wouldn't have to redesign the 4L60E. It it were my daily driver, and wanted my stock 4L60E to last, I'd leave it in (or maybe just multiply the tables by 50% or so). But if you can come to terms with the fact that you might need a stronger trans down the road and want maximum performance, I'd just zero the TM out.