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Sputtering...

This is a discussion on Sputtering... within the Computer & Tuning forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Well it could but not always. Say a wire is partialy Broken. Its making a connection but resistance is higher ...

  1. #21
    LoudMouth SStriker's Avatar
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    Well it could but not always. Say a wire is partialy Broken. Its making a connection but resistance is higher causeing the computer to recieve incorrect info. this could cause it to run like shit without throwing a code.

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    Pontiac Addict 01RaptorTA's Avatar
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    Hmm wires are all brand new, they were replaced along with plugs. I went around and checked them all days ago when it started acting up, so i know they're all on there. It has to be something to do with low end. I drove it around a little bit ago, and it seems like no matter what situation, in the very worst case scenario of almost crank-stopping sputtering and misfiring, at WOT it seems to run better. If its just barely sputtering, WOT runs perfect. And if i accel past 2k RPM it runs better, but not perfect. So something has to be up with 1900 or less...

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    LoudMouth SStriker's Avatar
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    I wasn't refering to Spark plug wires, but wires from your harness. O2 wires for example, If they got pinched during the install they could be causing an issue.

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    Oh, my bad. Well if thats the case there are only so many wires i can see/reach... And even then, there would be a code for sure if any specific wire was pinched. I do know it's not an 02 problem because my rear 02 codes were cleared and aren't showing up any more. A friend suggested that maybe having open headers is the cause, because of the backpressure? Would having a y-pipe really effect it that much? I didnt think it would because the car ran fine for several weeks after i installed the headers.

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    LoudMouth SStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01RaptorTA View Post
    And even then, there would be a code for sure if any specific wire was pinched.
    Not if the wires still make some contact. It could just give a false signal. What about your front O2's? They control your A/F.

    A lack of Back Pressure could be causing an Issue.

  6. #26
    Pontiac Addict 01RaptorTA's Avatar
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    Front 02s are in and functioning. They were giving a code immediately after the install but i had them replaced and no more code. I'll mess with it some more and check out some of the wires, money is a little too tight for a y-pipe right now.

  7. #27
    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    First off, explain your exhaust set up to me. I'm reading that you're running open headers. Does that mean you have the headers and nothing else after them?
    Secondly, what's your idle like both cold and hot? Is there a chance you have a leak either in the intake tract after the MAF or the PCV hose is off the side of the intake or something, also check the elbow in the pcv line on the drivers side cover? Those things will set the 102 code. Have you had the MAF recently, such as before this started happening?
    It sounds like you could have a couple things possibly going on. If you're running headers only you may be getting some reversion that's reaching the front O2's and making them see a lean condition and fattening your mixture up. It could also be due to a vacuum or post MAF leak letting in some extra air although this *should* effect your idle.
    It could also be a burned O2 wire like was previously mentioned. Make sure there are no wires on or near your headers. They get hot as hell and will make small work of toasting a wire, including spark plug wires. Make sure your plug wires aren't resting on the primaries also.

  8. #28
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    Thanks for jumping on Orion, glad to have your insight.
    Exhaust setup is as you mentioned, headers and nothing else due wanting to wait on a y-pipe/dumps.
    Idle is bad when its cold, horrible when its hot. Cold: I start it up and it will idle alright, but it pops and sputters every now and then. I can rev it up to about 2k with popping and sputtering every now and then, nothing extreme. When its hot, and im in drive, the entire car will shake madly, but it idles at a steady 521-670rpm, via the diablosport. While im idling in N, it will shake a little more than normal, with violent sputtering and popping.
    It backfires a lot, and smokes a lot. White smoke at idle, black smoke at WOT. When im driving, if i mash it, it doesnt sputter as much, but when i keep it between 1k and 2k, it sputters like mad.
    I have all the clamps tight on the intake assembly pieces, and the PCV coming off to the right is just pressure-fit, no clamp. Not sure if thats normal or not.
    One thing i do want to mention, i waited until it threw a P0300 then shut it off, cleared the DTC with the diablosport, unplugged the MAF harness, and started it back up. I dont know if its related, but the P0300 went away and i was just left with a MAF circuit code.
    Also, after driving under normal conditions (everything plugged in, factory tune minus P0140 o2 sensor code) the SES light with start flashing, sometimes go away, and come back. And of course, will flash during every other condition ive came across.
    I took the starter off and checked the CPS, its damn near perfect. Checked just about every other wire and connector, everything looked good.
    Do you think getting a couple turndowns and clamping them to my collectors would solve anything? Thats an easy fix i can try. Oh and there arent any wires touching, i made sure to tie them all up with cut-up pieces of coathangers. One more thing to mention, i had tied the back 02 sensors up after install, and one of them fell and was drug for several days, obviously toasting it. Would that have affected anything permanentally?
    Thanks to anyone that reads all of that lol, sorry to make it so long but i wanted to be concise.

  9. #29
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    First off, I wouldn't be driving the car even remotely hard until you get this figured out. I wouldn't drive it at all personally. With the MAF unplugged did it run any better? That would've put you in speed density and took the MAF out of the equation. I'm assuming it didn't because you probably wouldn't have plugged it back in. Bunch more questions.
    Have you used the diablo and looked at your fuel trims? What are your LTFT's reading?
    Will the diablo let you look at misfires per cylinder?
    What's your temp gauge reading and can you look at your temp with the diablo?
    Couple of simple things you might check. The drivers side front O2 harness drops right down off the K-member, make sure you don't have it or the passenger hooked up to the rear harness by mistake. Probably not it but will only take 10 seconds to check.
    I don't think turndowns will make much difference right off the headers. It would be nice to have full exhaust on it.
    Pull a couple of plugs and see if they're gas soaked or fouled out. I'm kinda wondering if you're super rich due to open headers and it's fouled a couple of plugs. I just re-read your posts and saw where you put new ones in but pull a couple of easy plugs and see if they're gas soaked, preferrably on the drivers side. I also saw where you're throwing p0171 which is a bank 1 ( drivers side) lean condition. Kind of makes me think the car is seeing a lean condition and dumping a bunch of extra fuel.
    Did the car run like this immediately after the install or did it run fine at first then start doing this? I really think the root problem is probably the open headers but without being there to scan it and see what's going on with the engine I'm taking guesses.

  10. #30
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    With the MAF unplugged it ran like it would if it were cold, for longer, but eventually went to hell.
    I haven't looked at the fuel trims, i dont think the diablo will display them... But i'd have to look again to be sure on that.
    No it wont let me look at misfires per cylinder unfortunately. That would be conventient...
    Temp gauge has never read more than 170-180, i used the diablo to check that incase my cluster gauge was fucked.
    Ill have to check the harnesses, im not sure. Yea lol it would be nice to have full exhaust but sound isnt an issue around here and i love loud cars. I ran my old mustang without an h-pipe for 4 months, never had any problem with it.
    It has to be running rich, mainly due to my mpg dropping to like 10 and the immense smell of gas during all driving conditions. Ill pull some plugs and see, but yes they are all new.
    Aaaand no, it didnt run like this immediately after install. It ran perfect after the headers were installed for atleast a month. Then at the track one day, I ran a 14.6 and knew something was up. So i ran it again, and on the way back down the strip it started to sputter and misfire widly. Thats when i changed plugs and everything, and thus beginning all this. It had been held WOT before the strip, several times. Long country roads in michigan... Thanks again orion.

  11. #31
    Pontiac Addict 01RaptorTA's Avatar
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    Also, would the gap on the plugs cause this? I didnt change the gap when i bought them, the napa guy said the gap should be set already. Probably stupid to just take his word on it...but i was in a hurry to get them in. I think they are .060 gap

  12. #32
    Old LS1.com member bluethunder2's Avatar
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    Sounds like you have several different things going on. My experience is, when my car sputters (when cold), at part throttle, it is usually my O2's. I don't run back O2's and they are deleted. My front ones cause this problem. If my car doesn't stay running at idle, it is usually my maf (fuse). When either of the two act up, the car will still drive just fine under 3/4 to full throttle.

    Hope this helps.

  13. #33
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    Do you still have your rear O2's laying around? You could try switching them out with the fronts. You say the car idles bad though right from the turn of the key or does it idle ok for the first 30 seconds or 1 minute then go downhill?

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    You o2s readings are not thrown into the mix until your car is warmed up. Because when a car is cold it should run in a open loop. once it warms up it should start reading all sensors and run in a closed loop.

    I think you damaged your o2s by running rich. from running open headers the o2s got a false lean reading making the car run rich to the point were you had raw gas in the exhuast. Raw gas could possibly have damaged your o2s. now the reason it runs alright when cold is becuase your car is running in a open loop, the computer is running the car at a set air/fuel mixture. once it warms up its reading your O2s. Now in my past experinces when a 02 goes bad, it dumps fuel.

    Now another thing that can cause a RIch condition is a bad coolant tempature sensor, have you checked this? it should be located on one of the heads.

  15. #35
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    I took out the 2 middle spark plugs, drivers side, and heres what i got. Black powdery substance completely covering the tip, but no fluid down the threads.
    Heres one of the plugs on the pass. side. Covered in some substance, smells like gas. 1/4 of an inch from the top is gray, from there down is black.
    I checked the O2s, they are in the right place. I cant swap out the rears to the front because one of the rear 02s is fried... Before i had the MAF problem it would take a while for the idle to fuck up, but now that i replaced the fuse and dont get a MAF code, it idles bad from the turn of the key. I just turned it over and ran the DTC, its just giving a misfire code now. If i were to take it down the road it would throw the other code as well.
    Checked the CTS and it seemed to be fine, cosmetically. Wouldn't that throw a code if the sensor was bad?

  16. #36
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    those plugs are toast. Replace the plugs and swap out your one good rear O2 with the drivers side front. Get full exhaust on that thing. Do those 3 things and I'm pretty confident your problems will be solved.

  17. #37
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    Damn man. How did they get that bad? Just from open headers? Thats ridiculous. Like i said before i ran open headers on my mustang with spark plugs that had 40k+ miles on them, it never had any problems whatsoever... Hmm ah well. Thanks Orion and everyone else that replied. Ill post again when i get it all done.

  18. #38
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    Ok i found a problem. May not be THE problem, but a problem none the less. I didnt realize it until i took the front drivers side 02 completely off, but it looks like somehow the wires were pinched. They still look connected, but maybe metal touched it, and shorted it, or its just not making a full connection? I tried putting the rear 02 in its place, but its about 6 inches too short. And besides that, the tip is smaller than the tip on the front sensor...will that matter?

  19. #39
    Old LS1.com member bluethunder2's Avatar
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    Won't matter. Extend the wires and install it.

  20. #40
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    Sweet im on it, thanks.

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