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Opinions on custom tuning

This is a discussion on Opinions on custom tuning within the Computer & Tuning forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I need some opinions please - A friend works at a custom tuning shop and is dying to do a ...

  1. #1
    Member jagfan93's Avatar
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    Opinions on custom tuning

    I need some opinions please -
    A friend works at a custom tuning shop and is dying to do a custom tune on my car (automatic with no mods), he says while the tune will add 10 or 15 hp the primary benefit will be elimination of torque management and adding harder shifts.
    I'm concerned about the additional stress on tranmission & driveline.
    What's your opinion/experience, Would it really be worthwhile and can it lead to premature failures?

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    been running without torque management for years and heads/cam the last couple years. The more important question is if he has experience tuning LSx cars.

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    Just me Y2KPewterSS's Avatar
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    Turning off torque management can potentially lead to your tranny blowing. I have seen it happen and had it happen to me. Now, that doesn't mean it WILL happen, just that it could. The 4l60E is rated at 350 foot pounds if I am not mistaken. In stock form its pushing it. If you remove torque mgmt, you are increasing the risk. If this is your only transportation, I would probably leave the torque mgmt turned on and not run the risk. If you have other means of transportation and are planning to have your tranny rebuilt/upgraded at some point anyways, go for it.

    Best advice though, get a 3500 stall convertor, it wakes up the auto trannies and will enhance your performance much more so than turning off torque mgmt.

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    "Car Builder" Musclecargt71's Avatar
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    Can someone elaborate on the torque management system of our auto cars? Subscribed.

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    torque management pulls timing for the shifts to make shifts easier on the tranny/drivetrain.

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    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y2KPewterSS View Post
    Turning off torque management can potentially lead to your tranny blowing. I have seen it happen and had it happen to me. Now, that doesn't mean it WILL happen, just that it could. The 4l60E is rated at 350 foot pounds if I am not mistaken. In stock form its pushing it. If you remove torque mgmt, you are increasing the risk. If this is your only transportation, I would probably leave the torque mgmt turned on and not run the risk. If you have other means of transportation and are planning to have your tranny rebuilt/upgraded at some point anyways, go for it.

    Best advice though, get a 3500 stall convertor, it wakes up the auto trannies and will enhance your performance much more so than turning off torque mgmt.


    I have removed it from hundreds of cars, and I have likewise seen tons of cars that only runs 12s with NO TUNING that still lost thier tranny; how can you tell someone for a fact that tq mngmnt removal was THE reason for failure? Exactly which parts failed that you can pin it on that? I have never seen any type of meaningful correlation.

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    Just me Y2KPewterSS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    I have removed it from hundreds of cars, and I have likewise seen tons of cars that only runs 12s with NO TUNING that still lost thier tranny; how can you tell someone for a fact that tq mngmnt removal was THE reason for failure? Exactly which parts failed that you can pin it on that? I have never seen any type of meaningful correlation.
    I don't have any factual data to give you or the OP. It happened about 5-6 years ago when I was breaking into LS1's and didn't know shit myself. I wasn't smart enough back then to dig deeper into it either. I just got my tranny fixed/upgraded and moved forward. There was about 5-6 of us here in Tulsa within a 2-3 month time period that all had some minor tuning shit done which included having torque management turned off. All of us experienced the same result, blown trannies. Like I said, no factual data to provide, but I am smart enough to know that was most likely not a coincidence of all our trannies just deciding to take a shit all at the same time. I am not going to name the tuner that did it either, so no point in asking.

    If you re-read my first post, I said it could potentially lead it, and also stated that having it turned off WILL not necessarily lead to tranny failure. I also asked a few other questions and suggested he go for it under certain circumstances. I don't think my original post shouted don't do it, turning it off will absolutely grenade your tranny. I just stated my experience.

    I don't suppose you have any factual data that would support your argument of having torque management turned off will not harm your 4l60E in any way shape or form do you?

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    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y2KPewterSS View Post
    I don't have any factual data to give you or the OP. It happened about 5-6 years ago when I was breaking into LS1's and didn't know shit myself. I wasn't smart enough back then to dig deeper into it either. I just got my tranny fixed/upgraded and moved forward. There was about 5-6 of us here in Tulsa within a 2-3 month time period that all had some minor tuning shit done which included having torque management turned off. All of us experienced the same result, blown trannies. Like I said, no factual data to provide, but I am smart enough to know that was most likely not a coincidence of all our trannies just deciding to take a shit all at the same time. I am not going to name the tuner that did it either, so no point in asking.

    If you re-read my first post, I said it could potentially lead it, and also stated that having it turned off WILL not necessarily lead to tranny failure. I also asked a few other questions and suggested he go for it under certain circumstances. I don't think my original post shouted don't do it, turning it off will absolutely grenade your tranny. I just stated my experience.

    I don't suppose you have any factual data that would support your argument of having torque management turned off will not harm your 4l60E in any way shape or form do you?

    There are a TON of tuneable trans parameters. Within those, there are many many ways to improperly setup a trans that will result in early failure. They would range from the (questionable) ability to raise the max allowed line pressure, change the pressure curves allowing overly hard shifting down low, the change of the same through overly aggressive force motor current table settings, improperly setup shift timing (not shift scheduling), and improperly setup TCC lockup and useage. Your tuner could have setup you or your friends trans in any of these methods listed, even if in his mind and to the seat of your pants, the changes 'seem mild'.

    With that in mind, I have literally hundreds of cars at the boltons level running for the last 4+ years with no torque management and still on the OEM trans. The majority of the users with failures race or have raced on the track or quite a bit on the street, but not all. Also consider my 02 extended cab 1500 Z71 with a 5.3l and 4l60. I BABY that truck, and it's tune is stock except for fixing the speedo for tires (really!). At 55K miles while driving on the interstate with cruise set, the trans totally ate itself. Park did not even work. That's the thing with 60s...

    I just think it's odd (or maybe internet myth like SD tuning doesn't adjust for changes in weather) that of all of the items that can hurt transmissions in the calibrations, that the allowance of timing through a shift (which really isn't even a trans parameter; it's an engine parameter) would get the blame for failed transmissions over the myriad of other variables that directly control the transmission and it's shifting.
    Last edited by Frost; 11-11-2009 at 07:40 PM. Reason: typo

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    Just me Y2KPewterSS's Avatar
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    My tranny that blew was in my previous SS vert. I am not 100% positive, but I don't believe I had an aftermarket converter in it at the time. That car was a dyno queen, never went to the track, but saw more dyno time than any effing car in Tulsa. Like I mentioned before, I didn't know what the hell I was doing back then. I believe the only mods at the time were full exhaust, LS6 intake and the minor tuning it had. It was putting 340s down. Wasn't much of a street racer either, it just took a shit on me. I remember the line pressure was turned up 75% or 100% as well, which always made me wonder if that didn't play into the trannies demise as well. It may or may not have been the lack of torque mgmt, or the combination of the increased line pressure that caused my tranny to blow and a handful of others, but I will stick to my notion that it was not coincidence that all of us blew in the same time frame after all having the same work performed. Maybe it was a tuner error, but the experience this particular tuner has doesn't lead me to believe that notion either

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