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MAF Delete??????

This is a discussion on MAF Delete?????? within the Computer & Tuning forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; good point. Moved to Tuning section...

  1. #21
    Moderator Cutlass's Avatar
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    good point. Moved to Tuning section

  2. #22
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Thanks Cutlass.

    I emailed Frost with questions and for more specifics since I've been thinking of going this route on my wifes car.

    Unfortunately his site says he's out of town for about the next week, so I'll have to wait in suspense

  3. #23
    Veteran Blackbird WS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Thanks Cutlass.

    I emailed Frost with questions and for more specifics since I've been thinking of going this route on my wifes car.

    Unfortunately his site says he's out of town for about the next week, so I'll have to wait in suspense
    good to know...i wanted to email him as well

    i showed cutlass proof of what i was talking about sooo i really want to see what Frost has to say

  4. #24
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird-WS6 View Post
    good to know...i wanted to email him as well

    i showed cutlass proof of what i was talking about sooo i really want to see what Frost has to say
    Well since Frost mentioned he is or has refined the SD tunes so they could be mail ordered on most bolt on cars, I figure the cost issues really wouldn't be an issue anymore, since mail order tunes are about ~$125-150 or so.

    I have HPtuner and tune both of our 4th gens, but haven't dabbled in the SD tuning part of things.
    A couple of reasons I'm looking into it on at least one 4th gen.

    For starters, my wifes car has had the MAF tinkered with from a previous owner, with ported ends installed (stockers are long gone). I had to play around with the MAF tables quite a bit on that car to get things decent.
    Another reason is the throttle response just isn't what I think it should be. Part of that reason is possibly due to the fact that I didn't spend that much time on the VE tables when I was logging it. Just didn't have the time.

    Rather than spend money on a new MAF, (which has changed design now) I figure why not eliminate it all together. Would be simple to do a mail order tune with Frost, since we can email tunes back and forth, and it gives me something to work with, that's if it even needs it.

  5. #25
    Moderator Cutlass's Avatar
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    Only guessing here, but if the car is stock, you should be able to disable the MAF, disable the SES light for the MAF codes, and copy the High Octane spark table values over to the Low Octane table and that's it. Speed Density.

  6. #26
    Veteran Blackbird WS6's Avatar
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    true true...im not bolt on lol

    i have a built 408 with the works

    i having problems with throttle response as well and im SD tuned not 100% done tho....lets say your in 1st gear (m6) and you just let the clutch out all the way and are just rolling, no gas, and then you go WOT, my car will have a delay (sec or so) and then catch itself and go BUT if i go WOT slowly about half way then slam it to the floor it will be fine

  7. #27
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Thanks Cutlass.

    I emailed Frost with questions and for more specifics since I've been thinking of going this route on my wifes car.

    Unfortunately his site says he's out of town for about the next week, so I'll have to wait in suspense
    wife and I sneaked off to the mountains in a cabin for a week. Summers are too busy for vacation.

  8. #28
    Junior Member 98SSLS1OWNER's Avatar
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    Sorry guys didnt mean to open up such a can of worms. But I really appreciate all the info that is being thrown out there. So what I'm getting out of this is if you have a "good tune" guy then everything should be ok? Now I have to go tackle the sticky clutch pedal......lol

  9. #29
    Moderator Cutlass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98SSLS1OWNER View Post
    Sorry guys didnt mean to open up such a can of worms.
    No problem at all. We love talking about this stuff.

  10. #30
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    I went SD in a stand alone for the fact that it elliminated a lot of un-nessasry (by opinion only) electronics.. The one I will run has an on board MAP, and is recommended for Multi-port platforms and a batch fire injection setup.. Which is what my OBD-I project car was originally.. I guess it depends on application/goals..?
    Last edited by Smittro; 12-06-2010 at 07:40 AM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    I went SD in a stand alone for the fact that it elliminated a lot of un-nessasry (by opinion only) electronics.. The one I will run has an on board MAP, and is recommended for Multi-port platforms and a batch fire injection setup.. Which is what my OBD-I project car was originally.. I guess it depends on application/goals..?
    I was waiting for you to chime in on this. Something told me you probably had som SD experience.

    Got an opinion on the gas mileage thing? Fact or Fiction?

  12. #32
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlass View Post
    Only guessing here, but if the car is stock, you should be able to disable the MAF, disable the SES light for the MAF codes, and copy the High Octane spark table values over to the Low Octane table and that's it. Speed Density.
    Yep that's it, but from what I understand, the VE tables need to be worked on and smoothed over with a wideband for things to work efficiently.

    Rough VE tables equal lazy throttle response etc...which sounds like the problems Blackbird is having.

    Edit: To give a little more info on this,,,,,What Cutlass describes is exactly how you would tune any 4th gen, even with an MAF. With the addition of disabling the PE mode, You simply log the VE tables hitting as many cells as possible and make all your necessary changes. Only then will you re-enable the MAF and tune the MAF as necessary. Or leave it off for the speed density tune.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 12-06-2010 at 08:52 AM.

  13. #33
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    wife and I sneaked off to the mountains in a cabin for a week. Summers are too busy for vacation.
    Sounds nice. No hurry here. Just have some questions on switching my car over. Enjoy your vacation

  14. #34
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnomee View Post
    I was waiting for you to chime in on this. Something told me you probably had som SD experience.

    Got an opinion on the gas mileage thing? Fact or Fiction?
    I was'nt in on that debate??.. But I can say with some experiance that sequential is'nt really nessesary. Batch fire also seem to have less issue with idle and tend to be very smooth. The tables on the stand alone I'm with are much smaller and less complex than the OBD-II cars.. On the OBD-I side many (60*v6 world) go piggy-back on their exsisting ECM to manage fueling.. Our batch fire fires 3 then 3 @ a time and we tend to run pig rich on factory chips.. Almost all the after market chips for us are to lean out the system some. I suppose it could be seen as a waste of fuel to fire a shot of fuel @ a closed valve/s.. I believe it actually controls knock/ping and can't remember the last time I heard an OBD-I 60* v6 that suffered from it.. In the (LQ1) TDC engines knock is nonexsistant with the computer cut/designed hemisphereical heads.. The sequential LQ1 have only a ~5-25hp crank increase. But I can show you actual specs that prove it's more likely due to the head/cam change and a slight boost in CR.. Almost any early OBD-I high feature runs better on the rich multi port batch fire setup than on later sequential.. With the advent of DI, the ball field changes again an you see N/A high feature 60* v6's with more stock power on 1/2-3/4 the cubes than some lsx engines..

    One of the first mods alot of us 660 guys do is take the MAF and the obd-II and toss it over the hill for the older SD 1.0/1.5 setup.. We tend to roll SD and/or piggy backs for FI too..
    Last edited by Smittro; 12-06-2010 at 01:31 PM.
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  15. #35
    Veteran Blackbird WS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird-WS6 View Post

    i have a built 408 with the works

    i having problems with throttle response as well and im SD tuned not 100% done tho....lets say your in 1st gear (m6) and you just let the clutch out all the way and are just rolling, no gas, and then you go WOT, my car will have a delay (sec or so) and then catch itself and go BUT if i go WOT slowly about half way then slam it to the floor it will be fine


    anyone want to take a stab at this??

  16. #36
    Moderator Cutlass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird-WS6 View Post
    anyone want to take a stab at this??
    Probably a lean spike when stabbing the throttle. You (or your tuner) need to adjust the transient fuel tables in HPtuners.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird-WS6 View Post
    anyone want to take a stab at this??
    Are you tuning the VE table using wideband feedback?

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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSXZ28 View Post
    Are you tuning the VE table using wideband feedback?
    (i have no wideband on my car)....i cant say if it was as i wasnt there when it was done b/c it wasnt a final tune but i can ask and fine out

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