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LC-1 install

This is a discussion on LC-1 install within the Computer & Tuning forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; O.k. I got the lc-1 wiring finished, calibrated and so far so good. I have'nt gotten to the adjusting the ...

  1. #81
    Member luvmyz28's Avatar
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    O.k.
    I got the lc-1 wiring finished, calibrated and so far so good. I have'nt gotten to the adjusting the ofsets part yet. Just have 1 simple question. Is it normal for the guage display to bounce around a bit? Mine was reading from 13.8 up to 14.7 at times. Mostly hovering between 14.0- 14.4.

    I adjusted the sampling rate to 1/6 and it slowed it down some but still does it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmyz28 View Post
    O.k.
    I got the lc-1 wiring finished, calibrated and so far so good. I have'nt gotten to the adjusting the ofsets part yet. Just have 1 simple question. Is it normal for the guage display to bounce around a bit? Mine was reading from 13.8 up to 14.7 at times. Mostly hovering between 14.0- 14.4.

    I adjusted the sampling rate to 1/6 and it slowed it down some but still does it.
    That is normal.

  3. #83
    Member luvmyz28's Avatar
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    Cool,

    Thanks.

    Did you get your issue with your lc-1 figured out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmyz28 View Post
    Cool,

    Thanks.

    Did you get your issue with your lc-1 figured out?
    Not yet. Busy weekend and too hot to play out in the garage last night.

  5. #85
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    I think I have my gauge working correctly again. I was concerned as a free air calibration resulted in a gauge reading of 21.8 -- not what it should be. However, when I hooked up the laptop and opened up the Logworks program, a calibration yielded 20.8 in Logworks, although still 21.8 on the gauge. I then opened LM Programmer and re-set the calibrations and also selected the factory defaults.

    Back in Logworks, I still had a 1% difference between the gauge and the laptop. For fun, I fired the car up and after about 30 seconds, the gauge and laptop synced and my gauge began reading correctly. I have no idea what the problem was. I took the car for a ride and the AFR was right in the range it should be and the gauge and laptop stayed in sync. Maybe now, after weeks of fussing, I can finally try to set up my PID in HP Tuners.

  6. #86
    Member luvmyz28's Avatar
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    I dont know how you have yours set up but mine read 21.7 in free air when I first powered it up. If that makes you feel any better about it. I worked on mine a bit last night. I made the range on output 1 the same as 2 so I can wire output 1 to hp tuners. I left them both at 0v=7.4 and 5v=22.39. I opened up the logworks program and it seems to have a -.6 offset. Then I created the custom pid in hp tuners. I quit at that point. So hopefully this weekend I'll at least be ready to tune a bit.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmyz28 View Post
    I dont know how you have yours set up but mine read 21.7 in free air when I first powered it up. If that makes you feel any better about it. I worked on mine a bit last night. I made the range on output 1 the same as 2 so I can wire output 1 to hp tuners. I left them both at 0v=7.4 and 5v=22.39. I opened up the logworks program and it seems to have a -.6 offset. Then I created the custom pid in hp tuners. I quit at that point. So hopefully this weekend I'll at least be ready to tune a bit.

    It is recommended that the output for HP Tuners be reprogrammed for 0V = 10.0 and 5V = 18.0. In addition, the sampling rate should be slowed down to 1/6. Pretty sure 0rion gave the same info higher up in this thread.

  8. #88
    Member luvmyz28's Avatar
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    Well I got the lc-1 offset fixed and all seems well. With key on not running its around .03-.05 off. Running it seems to be .05 off. Hard to tell exactly because it moves around a bit. The air fuel ratio is between 14.0 and 15.0 Idling in the driveway. So I don't feel that Its running too bad as far as rich or lean. So far only mods are headers,ory, and catback.

    I left the lc-1 set up at 0v= 7.35 and 5v= 22.39. I adjusted it in hp tuners to 7.00 in the configuration. I know it will hopefully never read that rich or lean. I figure as long as the offset is minimal, I should be good for tuning.

    So I guess the next thing is to play with the maf tables and see if that gives the car a little more pep. Other than that, I guess just wait for a ls6 mainifold and maybe a new cam. I just hope this lc-1 stays good the way it is and don't give me any fits. Although I think when I get the maf table and other little tuning things set, I'll disconnect the power, tuck up the wires, and remove the sensor so it doesn't get damaged.

    Thanks again for all the help. I'm sure I'll have more questions about this as I go along. Lol.

  9. #89
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    Finally received a reply from Innovate as to why they think my LC-1 wigs out anytime I open my cutout. Here is what they said:


    Having the sensor that close to the cut out might be cooling the sensor too much to where the heater can not keep up , therefore giving you an error 08. I suggest that you first pull the sensor further away from the exhaust stream by installing a 1" tall bung. You can also weld two 1/2" bungs together. Lastly, run through a heater calibration:

    1. With the LC-1 off, remove the sensor from the exhaust and disconnect it from the unit.
    2. Turn the unit on. You should get an Error 02 (Heater Circuit Open)
    3. After 30 seconds turn the unit off. Connect the sensor to the LC-1. Turn the unit back on.
    4. The LC-1 will run through the warm up and from there it will go into a 9-0 count down (heater calibration.)
    5. After this is done do a free air calibration.

    Make sure to perform all these steps with the sensor in free air.



    I don't know if I buy this or not. My cutout is 7' downstream from the sender and I have cats on the car. The cutout is not causing the other senders to throw codes. What do you guys think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    Finally received a reply from Innovate as to why they think my LC-1 wigs out anytime I open my cutout. Here is what they said:


    Having the sensor that close to the cut out might be cooling the sensor too much to where the heater can not keep up , therefore giving you an error 08. I suggest that you first pull the sensor further away from the exhaust stream by installing a 1" tall bung. You can also weld two 1/2" bungs together. Lastly, run through a heater calibration:

    1. With the LC-1 off, remove the sensor from the exhaust and disconnect it from the unit.
    2. Turn the unit on. You should get an Error 02 (Heater Circuit Open)
    3. After 30 seconds turn the unit off. Connect the sensor to the LC-1. Turn the unit back on.
    4. The LC-1 will run through the warm up and from there it will go into a 9-0 count down (heater calibration.)
    5. After this is done do a free air calibration.

    Make sure to perform all these steps with the sensor in free air.



    I don't know if I buy this or not. My cutout is 7' downstream from the sender and I have cats on the car. The cutout is not causing the other senders to throw codes. What do you guys think?
    My bet is still the ground.....did you tell them how you have it wired and grounded? I just know the grounds on the LC's are pretty picky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    My bet is still the ground.....did you tell them how you have it wired and grounded? I just know the grounds on the LC's are pretty picky.

    Per their instructions, the grounds are all tied in to the same point. I also separated my cutout's ground and power supply from that of the LC-1. Interestingly, I blasted up the hill the other day and opened the cutout while under acceleration and the gauge kept right on working even after I slowed down upon topping the hill. Usually, within a few seconds of the cutout opening it fails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    Per their instructions, the grounds are all tied in to the same point. I also separated my cutout's ground and power supply from that of the LC-1. Interestingly, I blasted up the hill the other day and opened the cutout while under acceleration and the gauge kept right on working even after I slowed down upon topping the hill. Usually, within a few seconds of the cutout opening it fails.
    have you checked the output of your alternator? Wonder if you're alt. is borderline or something and opening the cutout under non-load is drawing too many amps and causing your fault? That's a total stab in the dark but it would kinda make sense as to why it didn't fault when the car was under load? Heck I don't know.....that's about the best I can come up with.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    have you checked the output of your alternator? Wonder if you're alt. is borderline or something and opening the cutout under non-load is drawing too many amps and causing your fault? That's a total stab in the dark but it would kinda make sense as to why it didn't fault when the car was under load? Heck I don't know.....that's about the best I can come up with.

    I thought about the amp draw from the cutout, which is why I moved the power feed out under the hood. I monitor all my engine functions with the Hypertech and don't see any fluctuations in the alternator's output voltage. Amps, I have not ever checked. I'll play with it some more and see what other oddities arise... I'm just not sold on the extended bung theory with the cat being about a foot or so downstream from the sender.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    I thought about the amp draw from the cutout, which is why I moved the power feed out under the hood. I monitor all my engine functions with the Hypertech and don't see any fluctuations in the alternator's output voltage. Amps, I have not ever checked. I'll play with it some more and see what other oddities arise... I'm just not sold on the extended bung theory with the cat being about a foot or so downstream from the sender.
    is you're sender before or after the cat?

    I belive it must be before the cat.

    the other day my spare O2 (only used to block the hole in bung came loose I did'nt have a wrench so I just removed it having a small open hole near the LT collector made the car run real crappie.

    maybe if you'r sender is to close to CO you'r having a simiarl situation.

    I'm sure you'll get it sorted out. GL

    I'm planning on powering up my WB to the air pump circuit Monday, I'm saving the cig. lighter circuit for my CO next spring.

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    Went to a car show tonight and confirmed that if I open the cutout under acceleration the wideband keeps working even after I back out of it. I ran it for at least 15 miles with the cutout open and didn't have any problem with the LC-1. Did the same thing coming home and it was fine for 3-4 miles. Then, when I closed the cutout, it wigged out and defaulted to flashing lights and locked the display 7.4.

  16. #96
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    I replaced the LC1 in my old T/A 4 times. It's kind of ironic that it's brother, the LM1 tuned hundreds of cars and lasted years. It's still going actually, but I tend to favor the AFX these days. It's definitely more accurate down in the rich range that FI cars run at. I used to think that the inaccuracy yielded by many calibration updates was from other places. For instance if I am targeting 11.2:1 AFR and I get 10.7:1, that's about a 4.5% error. I apply 4.5% to the cell in question and on the next log I see 10.8-10.9:1 instead of the 11.2:1 target. After a few passes it comes close, but wanders a tenth or two. You can see that the AFX works better down there because it takes fewer revisions to hit target.

    There seems to be less latency from the AFX as well. This is a big deal for people who are following some guide to tune their car since the guides have you copy a huge block of error from a histogram and apply it right to the VE/MAF but never bother to explain what transitional error is or how to avoid getting it into the mix. As a side note, even worse, many guides encourage trim tuning. Here's an example of latency error and how to spot it... You are cruising along and then you floor it to get some WOT data. When you first floor it, you will see commanded AFR drop from stoich (14.6-ish in closed loop) to whatever is in PE (or OLFA if richer). For a few frames, commanded fueling drops to the 12s but the wideband is still showing 14.6. In the histogram, you get a cell or two that shows red 16-20% error at the beginning of the pull. This error is not real, it's wideband lag. If you copy and paste, you will cram a giant error into your VE/MAF. Wideband latency can be so bad that it can be a cell or two behind on the MAF, and copy=paste will fail you. You have to look at the wideband data, the narrowband data, and more importantly, the injector open time. It will have spikes and sags. Those spikes and sags will have corresponding wideband spikes/sage that will trail the injector in the log. This is easily visible latency error. The AFX is much lower than the LM1 and drastically lower than many other units. That's why it's best to to a lot of the work one cell at a time by hand versus trying to grab a block of error made by driving around for a half hour. That half hour will be full of garbage that is increasing hard to filter out without making super long logs.

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    I've notived the wideband lag on mine ever since I started tuning. I just ignore those first few frames and then blend it by hand when tuning the VE. Probably not the correct thing to do but I've seen the error and know it's not accurate so I figured my hand blending was better than using the false error.

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    I tell you something that's bothered me for a long time that I just don't know how to fix is the cam surge during low speed cruise. I used to blame it on an incorrect MAF table but it still does it in CLSD. If I'm right in the area my stall locks up in and hold cruise (before or after lock) you can hear the car surging and see it on the wideband. It's really the only time I notice it but it drives me crazy and I have no idea what table is off to cause it. I'm guessing since it's not in the MAF it's a running airflow table or something.

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    link the file into the thread

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