Just got tuned today

**Intrepidman** · 06-08-2009, 10:19 AM

Hey guys, I'm just wondering if my experience matchs up with any of what you guys have experienced. I just bolted on pacesetter headers, catted Y, and cat back, did the usual plugs and wires thing, and bump stop mod on the tb with slp lid, filter bellows, and debaffled hood. (2002 ws6)

Anyway the best numbers I pulled on his dyno were actually the FIRST pull before he started tuning (peak number wise). He did half a dozen passes and said he was playing with the timing, air/fuel, etc but in the end I had peak #'s that were just a hair shy of the pretuned numbers.. though mid graph May have been a hair higher....Actually if I recall correctly, non of the runs varried more than 4hp or 4ftlbs no matter what he did, I'm surprised there was so little reaction to any of changes.

It is really hard to tell what the bottom end of my graph looks like though, he did the runs in 3rd but it always wanted to downshift to 2nd (he said he could have locked it out, but there was no need) so really he didn't get it wide open until 4500rpm+ I think and when I asked about the low end of my graph looking very low (compared to stock) he said that was just because he rolled into the throttle slower.
He also raised my rev limiter...I'm curious, how high can an LS1 safely spin before it starts to approach trouble.

Is this all fairly standard sounding to you guys that have had it done before?

Oh and one other thing, I didn't have him mess with the shift firmness but he said if I wanted to increase it I could come back. How much firmer can I safely get, I've heard a little is actually good for the tranny, but if I really firm it up, can I get it to chirp the 1-2 shift...and if I do that, is it hard on the tranny?

**clg82** · 06-08-2009, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Intrepidman

Oh and one other thing, I didn't have him mess with the shift firmness but he said if I wanted to increase it I could come back. How much firmer can I safely get, I've heard a little is actually good for the tranny, but if I really firm it up, can I get it to chirp the 1-2 shift...and if I do that, is it hard on the tranny?

People will tell you on here including myself that removing the torque management will help you to chirp first and second like crazy, mine did it without the tune. It shouldn't hurt the tranny at all unless you beat the shit out of it daily!

**karpetcm** · 06-08-2009, 12:29 PM

what numbers did you put down?

**jambofla** · 06-08-2009, 12:32 PM

The rear end on mine wants to kick out to the right from tire spin on 1st to 2nd shifts so a chirp is not out of the question.

**Firebirdjones** · 06-08-2009, 12:51 PM

I think what bothers me most here is the fact that your tuner didn't lock the tranny in 3rd gear for a nice long pull. Easy to do with tuning software.
Waiting until the engine was above 4,500 rpms really misses alot of the lower VE tables and other things that are necessary in my opinion like what is the WOT AFR in the lower rpm ranges where load on the engine is heaviest???

I know when we dynoed my 70 formula, I unplugged the kickdown switch on the gas pedal so low rpm 3rd gear pulls could be done.

Now if all you want to do is see what peak HP you are making, thats one thing,,,,but to actually tune the car properly, thats another. Just my thoughts on it.
Maybe Frost will chime in, he has alot of experience with chassis dyno tuning.

**Intrepidman** · 06-08-2009, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

I think what bothers me most here is the fact that your tuner didn't lock the tranny in 3rd gear for a nice long pull. Easy to do with tuning software.
Waiting until the engine was above 4,500 rpms really misses alot of the lower VE tables and other things that are necessary in my opinion like what is the WOT AFR in the lower rpm ranges where load on the engine is heaviest???

Yeah, I would have preferred he had done that, but...he's the expert and he said he had no problem working with it.

**Intrepidman** · 06-08-2009, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by jambofla

The rear end on mine wants to kick out to the right from tire spin on 1st to 2nd shifts so a chirp is not out of the question.

On my shitty old tires the 3-2 kick down would send the rear out when passing hard on the highway, but with the new 315s its hooked solid even on the 1-2

**Intrepidman** · 06-08-2009, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by karpetcm

what numbers did you put down?

It ended up putting down 329hp and 345ftlb on the final pass.

**Intrepidman** · 06-08-2009, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by clg82

People will tell you on here including myself that removing the torque management will help you to chirp first and second like crazy, mine did it without the tune. It shouldn't hurt the tranny at all unless you beat the shit out of it daily!

Torque Management? I'm guessing this is a feature that cuts engine output for a fraction of a second during a shift...correct?
How did you disable it, if you didn't do it with a tune?

**Firebirdjones** · 06-08-2009, 05:32 PM

It pulls timing at shift points and such to save the tranny and rearend. It has to be dealt with in the tune.

**Z28Thunder** · 06-08-2009, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

It pulls timing at shift points and such to save the tranny and rearend. It has to be dealt with in the tune.

I know alot of people that once they pulled torque management their tranny's went. Now this did not happen right away but over time (months). But I do know a few that their tranny's went just days later.

**Firebirdjones** · 06-08-2009, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Z28Thunder

I know alot of people that once they pulled torque management their tranny's went. Now this did not happen right away but over time (months). But I do know a few that their tranny's went just days later.

That could be. I can tell you I removed my torque management right after I bought mine. It's been 2-3 years now??? I upped the line pressure for shift points as well. Then installed a 3400 converter last year too.
It's still kicking,,,,,,knock on wood.

I actually did this with the thought in mind that one day I'd pull the tranny for a full tilt rebuild anyway so I didn't care what happened. But the darn thing keeps on going

**Z28Thunder** · 06-08-2009, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

That could be. I can tell you I removed my torque management right after I bought mine. It's been 2-3 years now??? I upped the line pressure for shift points as well. Then installed a 3400 converter last year too.
It's still kicking,,,,,,knock on wood.

I actually did this with the thought in mind that one day I'd pull the tranny for a full tilt rebuild anyway so I didn't care what happened. But the darn thing keeps on going

Mine was going on 2 years and like you had the line pressure adjusted. Mine blew when I blew my 10 bolt. Which was right after a BMR torque arm. The factory torque arm has lots of give in it. The BMR does not and the reason IMO that the 10 bolt went. When it went it alos took out the tranny. If I was still running stock supension,headers and a 3500 stall I bet I would be on year 5 or 6 with no issues.

**Firebirdjones** · 06-08-2009, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Z28Thunder

Mine was going on 2 years and like you had the line pressure adjusted. Mine blew when I blew my 10 bolt. Which was right after a BMR torque arm. The factory torque arm has lots of give in it. The BMR does not and the reason IMO that the 10 bolt went. When it went it alos took out the tranny. If I was still running stock supension,headers and a 3500 stall I bet I would be on year 5 or 6 with no issues.

I have no plans for aftermarket suspension parts for either 4th gen. I like the soft quiet ride with the stock stuff. The only thing I have done is I box in the factory lower control arms and panhard bar myself to firm things up but still retain stock rubber bushings for a quiet ride.

**Z28Thunder** · 06-08-2009, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

I have no plans for aftermarket suspension parts for either 4th gen. I like the soft quiet ride with the stock stuff. The only thing I have done is I box in the factory lower control arms and panhard bar myself to firm things up but still retain stock rubber bushings for a quiet ride.

Heck the sotck suspension will run very low E.T.'s at the track. It is hard to sell people on not spending .. And in alot cases wasting money on the aftermarket stuff. Unless you go chrome moly all the aftermarket stuff is heavier than stock.. So your adding weight. And it will stiffen the car up. Sorry you got me on a rant there.

**Frost** · 06-08-2009, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Z28Thunder

I know alot of people that once they pulled torque management their tranny's went. Now this did not happen right away but over time (months). But I do know a few that their tranny's went just days later.

I have removed it from hundreds of (genIII) cars, the majority of them are local and many date back to 05. I have never seen any evidence to link to this to failure. The guys that are boltons have been running this way for years. Once you go H/C or power adder ont he stock tranny, it's a matter of time regardless of tuning. Pulling timing makes little difference to shift firmness once it is setup with tuning or a shiftkit, but it does kill engine momentum. All tq mngmnt does is take away timing.

I would not tune the way that was mentioned in this thread on the dyno, but that doesn't mean it was in incorrect approach either.

**Z28Thunder** · 06-08-2009, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Frost

I have removed it from hundreds of (genIII) cars, the majority of them are local and many date back to 05. I have never seen any evidence to link to this to failure. The guys that are boltons have been running this way for years. Once you go H/C or power adder ont he stock tranny, it's a matter of time regardless of tuning. Pulling timing makes little difference to shift firmness once it is setup with tuning or a shiftkit, but it does kill engine momentum. All tq mngmnt does is take away timing.

I would not tune the way that was mentioned in this thread on the dyno, but that doesn't mean it was in incorrect approach either.

Never said your tunes were bad Frost. And the tunes I speak of date back to 98.. I know Y2KpewterSS and others here in Oklahoma that can state it happened. Heck Y2KpewterSS does not have heads or a cam.. As others here in Ok who did not have h/c.

**0rion** · 06-08-2009, 09:04 PM

I've had torque management gone from mine and line pressures increased for years and years. I'm running a UMI torque arm, lower control arms, relocation brackets, and MT drag radials. I've been to the track a bunch of times with it and was cutting high 1.6x to low 1.7x 60's the last time. Now that I say that my tranny is going to explode next week but honestly it's probably due up as much as I've beat on that thing.

**Z28Thunder** · 06-08-2009, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by 0rion

I've had torque management gone from mine and line pressures increased for years and years. I'm running a UMI torque arm, lower control arms, relocation brackets, and MT drag radials. I've been to the track a bunch of times with it and was cutting high 1.6x to low 1.7x 60's the last time. Now that I say that my tranny is going to explode next week but honestly it's probably due up as much as I've beat on that thing.

I agree with Frost and h/c and it is just a matter of time. I am cam only and went vacuum modulated. I have not looked back since and dont pop tranny's. But now that I say that my tranny will implode here.. Again Frost not trying to debate. I just know of people local that did have the issue.

**0rion** · 06-08-2009, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Z28Thunder

I agree with Frost and h/c and it is just a matter of time. I am cam only and went vacuum modulated. I have not looked back since and dont pop tranny's. But now that I say that my tranny will implode here.. Again Frost not trying to debate. I just know of people local that did have the issue.

I'm heads/cam. There definitely is a pucker factor everytime I launch the car. The tranny is the only thing I haven't upgraded other than a stall.