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HPT Pro Assistance req'd - VE and timing for nubs

This is a discussion on HPT Pro Assistance req'd - VE and timing for nubs within the Computer & Tuning forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; So, I've got my HPT Pro setup and I've done a few simple things, like !CAGS !Slimiter, Tq mgmt, as ...

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Talking HPT Pro Assistance req'd - VE and timing for nubs

    So, I've got my HPT Pro setup and I've done a few simple things, like !CAGS !Slimiter, Tq mgmt, as well as a few other minor things which quite arguably make very little difference in the car's performance.

    Now I'm ready to start looking at timing and this illusive VE table tweaking. I spent 6 hours or so reading up on key words last weekend, learning various functions of the software. I've got the scanner working as well as the stand alone scan function.

    So far I've noticed my timing PEAKS at 25.5* @ ~6000RPM (WOT). I've heard folks say that 28-29* is probably acceptable. (I'm not on my HPT machine right now so the table names and stuff aren't coming to me) I think I found the table that I should be changing to adjust timing, but I didn't know if I should just say +4 the whole table, or what the proper procedure was for adjusting it... I do run 93 from top tier gas stations EVERY fill so I'm content with bumping it as far as I can for a NA driving tune, and then having a second tune which backs off the timing for the 150 shot!

    Then this whole concept of VE tuning... I'm trying to find a good thread on how and why VE tuning works. Also, I'm not sure I know which table to special paste % over the other table (which I also don't know yet).

    I'm a nub and want to UNDERSTAND what I'm doing when I do it so that when /if the car starts to act funny - I know how to fix it.

    If anyone could throw me a bone here and help out with the above questions, I'd greatly appreciate it.

    Thanks all
    -Eagle
    Last edited by Eagle; 07-06-2007 at 06:29 AM.
    | '02 WS6 M6 | KOOKS/ORY | LC-1 | LOU'S SS | UMI SFCs | BMN LCAs & RELOC's | Hotchkis STB | HSW 150 shot | Lid | 42# Lucas | HPTuner Pro |

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    I also recall my LTFT #'s reading 0.8 @ WOT below say 3000RPM...

    My car seems to be a bit slow out of the hole, but then REALLY come to life after 3000RPM. I want to figure out what it is thats causing this...

    I did compare my initial tune against a stock tune off HPT's site and it matched up 100% - so most of the info in the tune is @ stock values.

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Also worth noting is that my KR has ALWAYS shown zeros across the board. I do realize that I may have to do some KR adjustments after bumping up the timing - I just don't know how far is safe!

    -Eagle

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    to do VE tuning, you have to unplug the MAF. this will force the PCM in SD mode and run off the primary VE table. then you drive the car and log it. my recommendation is at least 30 minutes. next, take the Short Term Fuel Trim histogram and copy the whole table into the primary VE table by highlighting the whole table, right click, paste special multiply by % - half. save under a new name and upload. start up, reset fuel trims and go for another drive.


    for timing, you have the high octane table and the low octane table. copy the high into the low. for timing changes, you take hte timing histogram and copy it and paste into the high octane table. there are about 5 other tables that mess with timing, even at WOT.

    IAT Spark - adds/subtracts timing based on Intake Air Temps
    ECT Spark - adds/subtracts timing based on Coolant Temps
    Misc EGR Correction - adds/subtracts based on EGR
    Cat Lightoff Start up correction - adds/subtracts timing based on cylinder air and time for the first 80 seconds of startup.

    then there is the Max Torque Timing table - maximum timing PCM thinks will make max torque.

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    to do VE tuning, you have to unplug the MAF. this will force the PCM in SD mode and run off the primary VE table. then you drive the car and log it. my recommendation is at least 30 minutes. next, take the Short Term Fuel Trim histogram and copy the whole table into the primary VE table by highlighting the whole table, right click, paste special multiply by % - half. save under a new name and upload. start up, reset fuel trims and go for another drive.
    My car is mostly stock for a 2002 - and it does whip the crap outta my cousins 2000 C5 - but its still pretty sluggish outta the hole if I try to limit wheel spin...

    So for my power issues below 3000RPM (before the PCM relies entirely upon the MAF @ WOT), the VE tables are where all my power is hiding?

    -Eagle

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    don't know for sure. i leave my VE tables alone, because i'm not all that smart at it. i log my MAF and make changes to it.

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    I just +5'd my entire High Octane table and drove 20mi. 0 KR logged. Do I bump it another 5? Or...? The car already feels a little more spunky, especially down low.

    -Eagle

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    I'm going to leave the timing where it is and give the VE tables a shot in the AM...

    Even the little bit of timing 5* helped out. Now I just have to see where I can add in a bit more for my NA tune...

    Then its back to the stock timing table for the 150 shot tuning! WOOT!

    -Eagle

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    there's actually a really good write up in the help file on ve tuning. It'll give you step by step on how to tune the ve. I'm in the process of doing it now and although it's being a pain in my ass my afr is getting a lot closer than it was.
    I haven't really gotten to my spark yet with hptuners but have made many adjustments with edit. WOT timing is all points above .60 g/cyl and 2800 rpm. Some theories and methods have probably changed since I did mine with edit so I'm gonna treat it like a newbie again and learn it all from scratch ( except for what I already know ) With edit we had to calculate out where our timing was being referenced by doing (g/cyl = 15 * MAF(g/sec) / RPM). This would tell you where timing was being referenced on the table. Now with nice little histograms and things like that it's been made much easier and quicker.

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