Frost?

[blackSS01]

I am getting P0131 and P0151 codes and cars not pulling hard at all. Replaced O2's and they were destroyed in 1 full throttle. Covering the FTRA and putting a rag over half the air filter helped it by a good bit. So, that means I am super lean doesn't it, that hot of exhaust would fry a O2 quick wouldn't it. I have a year warrenty on the O2's so not worried about that. Can I send the computer back to you for a update or something? Am I right about the lean condition?

[Hi-Po]

Get a tune 'in person' for HCI swaps. Unless you have HPT and WB, nailing a tune threw snail mail is next to impossible.

[blackSS01]

Get a tune 'in person' for HCI swaps. Unless you have HPT and WB, nailing a tune threw snail mail is next to impossible.

I know that, thats why I'm not bashing or pissed off at Frost. He warned me before hand that his tunes are more for bolt on cars and that he may not be able to pin a great tune down for me. I was just asking for his opinion on my issues.

[Frost]

It's true that it needs to be in front of a tuner, but those codes aren't tune related. Being too lean won't hurt O2s, being too fat will. I clean the tips with a torch; they aren't heat sensitive in that fashion. Basically what I'm saying is that the O2 problems have nothing to do with mixture.

[blackSS01]

It's true that it needs to be in front of a tuner, but those codes aren't tune related. Being too lean won't hurt O2s, being too fat will. I clean the tips with a torch; they aren't heat sensitive in that fashion. Basically what I'm saying is that the O2 problems have nothing to do with mixture.

Ok, Ok, I didn't know that. I am wondering what would cause them to do that then. Is any part of a tune have anything to do with the O2's (I'm dumb when it comes to tuning) And thanks for the reply. I def will try cleaning them with a torch. The last O2's that I took out which threw the codes first before I bought the new ones had no soot on them if that helps.

[blackSS01]

Oh and one more thing I forgot. I thought it was lean because we plugged off my FTRA and covered half the air filter with a rag and it made a noticeable difference in SOTP to me and my 2 other buddies that took rides/drives.

[blackSS01]

Ok, I have did a lot and I mean ALOT of searching and come Tuesday me and my buddy are:

1: Pull a spark plug and see if its white (lean)
2: Pull a O2 and look at it.
3: Check Fuel Pressure at the rail
4: Check all intake fittings after the MAF for tightness
5: Spray down engine compartment with brake clean to check for vacuum leaks
6: Clean the MAF
7: Undo battery and reset codes
8: Take it for a spin

Hopefully I can get this thing going in tip top shape

[Frost]

You can't read plugs like that in a car with closed loop control. They ALL look white from part throttle fueling doing it's switching.

To read WOT plugs, the car MUST be in OL, you must use new plugs and make a pull to the top of a gear and immediately shut down the engine. Now you pull a plug and check it.

Really though, if you want to check AFR you have to use a wideband. You really can't get around this.

[blackSS01]

You can't read plugs like that in a car with closed loop control. They ALL look white from part throttle fueling doing it's switching.

To read WOT plugs, the car MUST be in OL, you must use new plugs and make a pull to the top of a gear and immediately shut down the engine. Now you pull a plug and check it.

Really though, if you want to check AFR you have to use a wideband. You really can't get around this.

Good to know. I need to find someone with a wideband then. But I may not have the fuel psi at the rail or there may be a leak causing the lean problem. I'll keep everyone posted with the results of the tests. I won't worry about the plugs at the moment.

[Frost]

I don't understand so help me out... how do you know the car is lean if it hasn't seen a wideband? Do you still have the ported MAF on the car?

p0131 is low voltage to the front driver's side O2. Most usual causes are:
1. misfire
2. failed MAF (that doesn't code)
3. exhaust leak

p0131 can mimic a lean condition because the NBs read low. The fact that it's set on one side of the engine and not the other points to conditions 1 or 3 above though as very likely candidates though.

[blackSS01]

I don't understand so help me out... how do you know the car is lean if it hasn't seen a wideband? Do you still have the ported MAF on the car?

p0131 is low voltage to the front driver's side O2. Most usual causes are:
1. misfire
2. failed MAF (that doesn't code)
3. exhaust leak

p0131 can mimic a lean condition because the NBs read low. The fact that it's set on one side of the engine and not the other points to conditions 1 or 3 above though as very likely candidates though.

Its lean because when we plugged off the FTRA and Put a rag in the airbox it actually ran better and to my understanding Cut the Air/run better=Lean. My buddy has a LT1 MAF that I can use.....but are they the same? And exhaust was just put on, and has been checked. There was no leaks. And when the O2's where pulled out, they were spotless, not a spec of soot. They looked brand new yet had codes.

[Sweet Chops]

As far as I know you cant use a LT1 MAF. Also I don't think you want to go crazy spraying break cleaner in your engine compartment. That shit can take pant off and more than likely dry out your rubber hoses.
I am thinking it is a failed MAF or a vacuum leak. I would look at the o-rings on the intake. How does it idle? High?
Ryan

[blackSS01]

As far as I know you cant use a LT1 MAF. Also I don't think you want to go crazy spraying break cleaner in your engine compartment. That shit can take pant off and more than likely dry out your rubber hoses.
I am thinking it is a failed MAF or a vacuum leak. I would look at the o-rings on the intake. How does it idle? High?
Ryan

It idles fine, about 700-800 rpms. Every seal in the entire motor was replaced with OEM GM except the rear main but that doesn't mean some how one isn't leaking. I googled the MAF question and LS1tech said they are the same part number and will fit 94-02 but again, thats just others people on the internet board talking. We'll be careful on the brake clean, its the only thing I know that will work unless someone more educated knows of something.

[Sweet Chops]

Maybe starting fluid or carb cleaner.

[blackSS01]

Maybe starting fluid or carb cleaner.

I have all of the three listed above.

[Sweet Chops]

I am blind I don't see it anywere.
Sorry

[Frost]

I don't understand so help me out... how do you know the car is lean if it hasn't seen a wideband? Do you still have the ported MAF on the car?

p0131 is low voltage to the front driver's side O2. Most usual causes are:
1. misfire
2. failed MAF (that doesn't code)
3. exhaust leak

p0131 can mimic a lean condition because the NBs read low. The fact that it's set on one side of the engine and not the other points to conditions 1 or 3 above though as very likely candidates though.

Add another to the list... car this evening has an 0131 because the owner extended his sensor's wires with butt connectors.

[blackSS01]

I am blind I don't see it anywere.
Sorry

I mean I have all of the three types of spray at home at my disposal Should have made that clear And to Frost, my old O2's that first went were the crappy universal shit boxes that you have to splice yourself....wasn't a surprise that they went out. Well, tomorrow we take a crack at it on my day off. We may be able to get a Tech2 which will help us greatly. I will post all the info I get from it and what we find tomorrow so check back guys. Wish my luck

[blackSS01]

Oh, and besides the luck......Thanks for your input everyone, especially Frost. to all.

[Frost]

If you have the TechII, get a running scan. If it is high, the fuel trimming will be all very highly +

You won't have LTFTs, so look to the STFTs after the car is up to full temp.