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Crap Tune?

This is a discussion on Crap Tune? within the Computer & Tuning forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I got my 98 m6 z28 tuned after my header install i think the the guy did a half a$$ ...

  1. #1
    Member zeetwentyeight's Avatar
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    Crap Tune?

    I got my 98 m6 z28 tuned after my header install i think the the guy did a half a$$ tune on it. Should i still be able to hear my AIR kick on if claims he turned it off? he used a hptuner

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    he probably just deleted the codes for the air system. Take the relay and fuse out for it and remove it from the car altogether.

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    Member ls1wallen's Avatar
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    when frost did my tune, he deleted it and it still kicked on. i had some other problems with the car and never got around to pulling the air system out.

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    Member zeetwentyeight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ls1wallen View Post
    when frost did my tune, he deleted it and it still kicked on. i had some other problems with the car and never got around to pulling the air system out.
    Does these number sound about right? 318 rwhp and 344 ftlb.
    Pace setter lts slp lid knn filter an the tune

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    Member ls1wallen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeetwentyeight View Post
    Does these number sound about right? 318 rwhp and 344 ftlb.
    Pace setter lts slp lid knn filter an the tune
    I made a thread a long time ago about doing some dyno pulls and the guy was a idiot that did it. i dont believe this numbers are correct but are close.
    after my tune


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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I'd think the AFR still needs more tweaking. Looks lean throughout the run being above 13:1, and definately lean from 3500 to about 4300.

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    Member ls1wallen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I'd think the AFR still needs more tweaking. Looks lean throughout the run being above 13:1, and definately lean from 3500 to about 4300.
    im happy with my tune. i just paid a shop to do 3 pulls and they couldnt do it right. but to the op those numbers are right where you should be

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    Moderator Cutlass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeetwentyeight View Post
    Does these number sound about right? 318 rwhp and 344 ftlb.
    eh...could be better. But dynos numbers can be all over the place.

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    2002 Z28 A4 NBM
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    My 02 laid down 306rwhp/323rwt as a baseline stone stock down to the paper air filter on ProDyno's DynoJet here in PHX.

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    2002 Z28: NBM/Tan, MTI smooth lid, smooth bellows, !AIR, !cats, 1-3/4" QTP SS LT's, 2-1/2" TD's with X-pipe, MagnaFlows dumped at axle, custom welded SFC's, MidWest Chassis body mount adjustable T/A, 3400 stall, 3.23 gears (was 2.73). Tuned: 343rwhp/357rwt (before TD's). Best: 12.559 @ 108+, 1.73 60' @ 3500' DA w/MT ET Street DR's.

    Carbon footprint? CLOWN SHOE!

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    Member zeetwentyeight's Avatar
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    I guess i am just second guessing my tune and thinking about doing the mail order tune?

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    I fail to see an issue here with the tune posted. Looks good to me. Too many get their panties in a wad over some dyno pull data. Dyno's have their place I agree.....but the end all is how does she run? Butt Dyno is what counts at the end of the day friend. Do you have realistic expectations to begin with?

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I'd think the AFR still needs more tweaking. Looks lean throughout the run being above 13:1, and definately lean from 3500 to about 4300.
    I am seeing some weird shit with ethenol these days. Plays hell with tunes/dyno's and A/F. I bought one of them lil ethenol measuring test kit things. Gas station said 10% and it read 17% in the test vial.
    Ethenol is changing the game and tuners better stay on top of how to tune a car with ethenol in it. If a tuner does not test the fuel for an accurate ethenol percentage prior to tuning then I would worry. A/F is different in a ethenol/gas fuel versus 100% gas. You tune leaner the higher percentage of ethenol you have in the fuel. People that say10% of ethenol makes no difference are full of shit. Watch a ECM adjust leaner with just 10% ethenol in a flex fuel car versus 100% gasoline.
    Of course then you get gas from a different station or gas up when your regular station gets a fresh load and the ethenol percentages have changed again.....so you tune to an average (safe) ethenol percentage.....it is a PITA. ...and not an exact science anymore. Al Gore will burn in hell....I hope with Jane Fonda tied to him.

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    Member zeetwentyeight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    I fail to see an issue here with the tune posted. Looks good to me. Too many get their panties in a wad over some dyno pull data. Dyno's have their place I agree.....but the end all is how does she run? Butt Dyno is what counts at the end of the day friend. Do you have realistic expectations to begin with?
    Well one of the reasons i am concerned is that when the guy tuned my car we only did normal driving never WOT tuning. im not sure if it is necessary or not to do that.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    I am seeing some weird shit with ethenol these days. Plays hell with tunes/dyno's and A/F. I bought one of them lil ethenol measuring test kit things. Gas station said 10% and it read 17% in the test vial.
    Ethenol is changing the game and tuners better stay on top of how to tune a car with ethenol in it. If a tuner does not test the fuel for an accurate ethenol percentage prior to tuning then I would worry. A/F is different in a ethenol/gas fuel versus 100% gas. You tune leaner the higher percentage of ethenol you have in the fuel. People that say10% of ethenol makes no difference are full of shit. Watch a ECM adjust leaner with just 10% ethenol in a flex fuel car versus 100% gasoline.
    Of course then you get gas from a different station or gas up when your regular station gets a fresh load and the ethenol percentages have changed again.....so you tune to an average (safe) ethenol percentage.....it is a PITA. ...and not an exact science anymore. Al Gore will burn in hell....I hope with Jane Fonda tied to him.
    I agree completely, this ethanol is for the birds. There is talk of raising it another 5% too, and it'll probably happen knowing all these environmentalists nowadays.
    In Ohio, I could find ethanol free gas a few years ago, and that's all I used. Now living out here in AZ, everything is ethanol, can't get away from it. It's giving me fits, and not just tuning, especially on the old carbed stuff. Alcohol attracts moisture, a bad thing for cars that sit for periods at a time. It's gummed up my Mallory fuel pressure regulator twice causing irratic pressure readings.
    I've since started running 2 cycle oil through the fuel system and that seems to have taken care of that little problem. Everytime I go out to tune with the wideband and get the car dialed in, 3 months later I've got a different reading. Different gas?? Probably....since I do my best to keep track of DA numbers so I know where I'm at.
    I could go on and on, but I'll be quiet.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeetwentyeight View Post
    Well one of the reasons i am concerned is that when the guy tuned my car we only did normal driving never WOT tuning. im not sure if it is necessary or not to do that.
    Yes it is, you left some HP on the table. In WOT the car goes open loop, and it programmed with a preset AFR. I think it's around 11.5 or something rediculously rich, more for warranty claims I'm sure.

    Bringing that up to between ~12.5-13.0 and you'll pickup a few ponies. There is no set AFR number, every car seems to like it's own AFR, but it'll probably wind up somewhere in that area.

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    Member zeetwentyeight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Yes it is, you left some HP on the table. In WOT the car goes open loop, and it programmed with a preset AFR. I think it's around 11.5 or something rediculously rich, more for warranty claims I'm sure.

    Bringing that up to between ~12.5-13.0 and you'll pickup a few ponies. There is no set AFR number, every car seems to like it's own AFR, but it'll probably wind up somewhere in that area.
    So your saying we should have done a WOT tune?

  17. #17
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeetwentyeight View Post
    So your saying we should have done a WOT tune?
    Well that's where you'll find your HP gains. Both with timing and fueling.

    Were you guys on a dyno?? I can't see why you wouldn't have done any WOT runs unless something was wrong.
    Did he have a wideband?

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeetwentyeight View Post
    Well one of the reasons i am concerned is that when the guy tuned my car we only did normal driving never WOT tuning. im not sure if it is necessary or not to do that.
    Yes it is.
    Allen Nelson crawls in the passenger seat and we go. Regular cruising, idle, acceleration....and yes....wide open.....how that son of a gun keeps typing on that laptop in Oprah at WOT is beyond me. Anything else is guessing at a tune and not a complete tune.

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I agree completely, this ethanol is for the birds. There is talk of raising it another 5% too, and it'll probably happen knowing all these environmentalists nowadays.
    In Ohio, I could find ethanol free gas a few years ago, and that's all I used. Now living out here in AZ, everything is ethanol, can't get away from it. It's giving me fits, and not just tuning, especially on the old carbed stuff. Alcohol attracts moisture, a bad thing for cars that sit for periods at a time. It's gummed up my Mallory fuel pressure regulator twice causing irratic pressure readings.
    I've since started running 2 cycle oil through the fuel system and that seems to have taken care of that little problem. Everytime I go out to tune with the wideband and get the car dialed in, 3 months later I've got a different reading. Different gas?? Probably....since I do my best to keep track of DA numbers so I know where I'm at.
    I could go on and on, but I'll be quiet.
    A side benefit of the TCW3 project has been that we have found it "stabilizes" the swings in ethenol percentages and allows a finer tune. And yes it keeps things cleaned and lubed.

  20. #20
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    A side benefit of the TCW3 project has been that we have found it "stabilizes" the swings in ethenol percentages and allows a finer tune. And yes it keeps things cleaned and lubed.
    That's good to hear. I've been using it in all the cars now for about 3-4 months. And I'm about to go with an SD tune on one of them, so I'll start all over again on the VE tables. This will be the first tuning session with that stuff in the tank.

    I was considering tuning it a bit on the fat side just because of what we mentioned here, to be safe. Maybe I won't have to do that so much,,,,thanks.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 12-18-2010 at 12:14 PM.

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