Cot?

**Firebirdjones** · 04-25-2007, 02:32 AM

Since this is a safety item to keep the cats cool, I was wondering if anyone bothers to delete it? I was thinking with this feature adding fuel from time to time it could mess with the A/F ratio. And since most people delete the cats and run off road y-pipes this really isn't needed anymore.
Will simply disabling the rear 02 sensors take the COT out of the equation or do you actually have to disable COT as well? Larry.

**specialized.1** · 04-25-2007, 06:59 AM

Good question hope someone gives us an answer?

**Firebirdjones** · 04-25-2007, 09:47 AM

Ya I figured someone would have chimed in on this by now. I have my cats gutted so I don't need the extra enrichment feature this provides. I have my rear 02's still functional, I just disabled the code/light. So I was curious if that means the COT was still operational. On the COT table it is enabled, but I am not sure how it gets it's 1,500 degree temp reading. I assume from the rear 02's, and if they are still in the equation then I assume COT is still adding unnecessary fuel.
I read where some tuners like to disable COT completely even when working cats are in place, because it gives false A/F ratio readings at times, and makes it more difficult to tune the car.

**tblu92** · 04-28-2007, 11:32 AM

The code for disabling the COT is usually B0701 (EFILIVE)---I disable it almost on every tune now--Sometimes on trucks that tow a lot I will leave it be---But from a performance standpoint it will richen up the WOT AFR down to 10-1---11-1 for awhile and throw your fuel curve out of whack---I've noticed especially with headers-cam-cat-back exh.-tuning- heads--basically anything that wil produce more airflow , it will enable the COT more often.I have had mine('98 C5 heavily modded ) disabled for over a year now with no problems and even passed Calif smog test 2 months ago easily.When logging I have seen it stay on for 5-6 seconds before--enough to ruin a 1/4 mile run --then it takes a couple more seconds to stable itself back where you had it

**Firebirdjones** · 04-28-2007, 02:52 PM

Cool thanks, thats kinda what I figured. I disabled mine in the tune the other day,,,,it's in the engine section,,,,,I just put "disable" in the box and then zero everything out in the number columns, I guess that should turn it off.
I did a datalog while running some errands, and noticed now that my fuel trims have changed quite a bit in certain areas, I will have to go over that again and dial it back in closer.
It's silly little things like this that people like me are not aware of and it makes it difficult to tune a car. Other tables and variables that affect other things,,,sheeeesh. I'll get the hang of this eventually.
Thanks for the help

Larry.

**mrr23** · 04-28-2007, 06:21 PM

i disabled mine. yep, he wonders of self tuning. i get tired of people always telling others to buy a tuning suite over a handheld when they ask. hptuners, efilive, etc.. just isn't for everyone. no guides, some internet helps, and lots of trial and error.

self tuning just isn't for everyone.

**Firebirdjones** · 04-28-2007, 07:32 PM

Yes I agree 100%. It's been a real pain in the rump for me. Alot of little things that no one tells you. And if you ask too much some people just don't want to bother to help. I'm too old for this. I think the handheld Diablo would have suited me just fine.
I think if these big time tuning software people want to advertise and push this stuff so much then a book needs to come with it.
I have searched high and low at book stores and can only find tuning on Chrysler, Ford and Foreign crap. Can't find anything GM. Even just some kind of book that would go over GM ECM's in general and how graphs work etc....would be a huge help.
Guidelines would be a nice addition as well. I mean,,,most of these graphs tell you what they do, but they don't tell you what other graphs may have an effect on it with some kind of math formula. They also tell you what the minimum and maximum numbers are for that particular graph,,,,but it doesn't tell you how much changing of that number has "X" amount of effect. It just give you a range.
There are alot of little things that frustrate me about it. But I keep pecking away at it, hoping people help me along when I get stuck.

Larry.

**tblu92** · 04-28-2007, 09:50 PM

When i was in the market for a tuner I researched the big 3 very closely(EFILIVE--HP Tuners--LS1 Edit ) and chose EFILIVE. Their tables seemed to be easier to read and each one has a short explanation of what it does --2nd they seemed also to be on the cutting edge of technology and continually have software updates as they learn some new things for free !! 3rd and most of all their support and training was far superior than anyone out there--I purchased My Workshop package from Wait4me performance and it included thorough training. Jesse flew from his base in Indiana out to my home in Calif and stayed 4 days teahing me. He is also avail EVERYDAY to answer questions when issues pop up and doesn't treat you like an idiot when you ask newbie dumb questions.He was very patient with me. Also If He happened to be un-available i could E-mail Austrailia and would have an answer back in 8 hours--- So I would say support is the most important thing when shopping for a tuner package.

**Firebirdjones** · 04-29-2007, 01:02 PM

Well, with HPtuner I have the same thing with #1 and #2 that you mentioned. It's easy to read with short explainations, and I can also update for free. BUT,,,,,,#3 you have Hptuner beat. There really is no tech support like you mention. They do have a website which I log on to with questions, and I have found a couple of helpfull guys there. But for a newbie you are kinda limited. There is just no way around it for a guy like me, you just have to jump in and get wet. Larry.

**Xenophon** · 04-29-2007, 08:58 PM

go to

http://www.aa1car.com/

Go to the Carley Software section. Better yet here it is directly.

http://www.aa1car.com/carleyware/

Has the software that Autotap sells to give you a full rundown on OBDII and it's related sensors. Spend $120 for whole package(20-40 for individual progs). Read. Become a tuning GOD! Okay, so maybe not a god. The advantage it gives you is Hugenormous. I thought I understood OBDII and how all the sensors worked from reading the tech articles in the back of GMHTP magazine. They were very accurate but I didn't realize how much they were limited to as far as information to publishing space ratios. Once you've read through a fair chunck of the articles (take a week off of work, bring laptop into bathroom with you) it lets you talk to all those experienced techs that Firebirdjones and mrr23 say don't want to help. They may not be helpful but they will usually answer a direct question. This software helps you to ask those questions AND understand the answers. I find that's the biggest problem when asking for help. The guys want to be helpful but just hate to take the time to have to explain everything down to the unexperienced not full time car mechanic level, or what they perceive to be as such.

**mrr23** · 04-29-2007, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Xenophon

Once you've read through a fair chunck of the articles (take a week off of work, bring laptop into bathroom with you) it lets you talk to all those experienced techs that Firebirdjones and mrr23 say don't want to help. They may not be helpful but they will usually answer a direct question. This software helps you to ask those questions AND understand the answers. I find that's the biggest problem when asking for help. The guys want to be helpful but just hate to take the time to have to explain everything down to the unexperienced not full time car mechanic level, or what they perceive to be as such.

i put in bold what the problem is with those experienced people. and i understand where they are coming from. you just get tired of saying the same thing over and over. unfortunately, it's what has to be done. to add to it, those with the experience are usually making money with it. so, they don't want to chop their nose off. again, i understand and don't blame them. but, guess who buys the tuning software?

what i get tired of is all those that keep saying for not much more, just get the tuning software and do it yourself. some don't have the time to learn it. some don't want to learn it. some just can't grasp it.

i'm thinking of making some webpages on how to do some of the things in hptuners. hptuners website offers some helpful videos on how to do somethings. but not everything. when making PIDS to monitor other things, there's nothing to tell you what parameters need to be met to make it work. adding that to the help file would be great. or better yet, when you select a certain PId, it should automatically set it up for you.

**mrr23** · 04-29-2007, 10:28 PM

just got this off the hptuners website. seems this guy made a book about tuning and using htpuners.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...5205#post85205

http://www.cartechbooks.com/vstore/s...&CATID=3&DID=6

**Xenophon** · 04-30-2007, 12:20 AM

Just added the book to my library. No such thing as TMI.

Let me know if you want to put up a website. I'd like to do one as well but for EFILive. If we did it together then make one topic and choose your tuner. Then people can compare side by side how each one works. Maybe more people will get into it. Then we get more requests for articles then its a cosmic snow ball rolling down dragging us all to hell.... on second thought. Oh who am I kidding I'm going to hell anyways.

**Firebirdjones** · 04-30-2007, 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by mrr23

i put in bold what the problem is with those experienced people. and i understand where they are coming from. you just get tired of saying the same thing over and over. unfortunately, it's what has to be done. to add to it, those with the experience are usually making money with it. so, they don't want to chop their nose off. again, i understand and don't blame them. but, guess who buys the tuning software?

what i get tired of is all those that keep saying for not much more, just get the tuning software and do it yourself. some don't have the time to learn it. some don't want to learn it. some just can't grasp it.

i'm thinking of making some webpages on how to do some of the things in hptuners. hptuners website offers some helpful videos on how to do somethings. but not everything. when making PIDS to monitor other things, there's nothing to tell you what parameters need to be met to make it work. adding that to the help file would be great. or better yet, when you select a certain PId, it should automatically set it up for you.

You hit the nail on the head. These are my thoughts exactly. Making PID's is a total pain in the ass for me. Finding the right parameters is next to impossible. I am still trying to figure out how to log "delivered transmission torque" to diagnose a not so firm 1-2 WOT shift, and I cannot get the PID setup. It's things like this that make HPtuner and pain. They should be automatic when an item is selected. Sheeesh Mrr23, maybe you should have designed this software

This is how I feel about the whole issue of people not wanting to explain to a newbie. If they don't like explaining stuff over and over, then these kind of people don't belong on a website. Either be helpfull or get lost.
I don't mean to sound blunt but I am the exact opposite, I love to help if I can and don't mind explaining things. I don't tell people to search when I can simply type out the answer in a matter of seconds. If people can't take the time to do that, they don't need to be on here. Searching doesn't always yield the results most people are looking for. It seems the same people that keep telling everyone to get the software, it's the greatest, blah blah blah, are the same people that don't want to help a newbie learn it after he got sold on the stuff.
If you guys decide to start a website please keep us all posted, I am always digging for info on HPtuner and trying to learn, and would love for someone to start a site that has had the same struggles I am going through.

**Firebirdjones** · 04-30-2007, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by mrr23

just got this off the hptuners website. seems this guy made a book about tuning and using htpuners.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...5205#post85205

http://www.cartechbooks.com/vstore/s...&CATID=3&DID=6

I just looked at that post. I am going to order that book TODAY! I hope it is still in print. Thanks for that link

**Too Fast** · 04-30-2007, 02:59 AM

Yes get rid of the COT function. I don't know how to do it, but I read in HP Pontiac that all tuners disable it. It massively enriches the mixture to prevent Catalytic OverTemp. Running richer will cool the cat. conv. so prolong its' life. As we all know, too rich equals less power.

**Firebirdjones** · 04-30-2007, 03:41 AM

I just wanted to add, something that strikes me as very strange. I have been on HPtuners website for a little while now, and I have never seen any mention of this book at all. I have even made comments that I have been searching for some kind of tuning book at book stores both on this site and HPtuners, and yet I still heard no mention of this book.

What is strange is that,,,,all the people that hate to answer newbie questions about tuning,,,you would think that this book would be plastered all over the front page of the website with flashing lights,,,lol. Why is this book not a sticky? This looks like a must have for everyone with HPtuners. I am kinda puzzled at this. The guys at HPtuner that don't like the newbies should be advertising this book. Or better yet, it should be offered as an added purchase when everyone buys their copy of HPtuner software,,,,,

**mrr23** · 04-30-2007, 05:39 AM

i have a website to do all of the hosting. just a matter of taking the time to do it. right now, my concentration is towards the 408 going in the car in may. and i still have to make a tune for it. so, maybe later this month.

it will have some explanation as to what it does and screenshots to make it easy to find.