Bad dyno tune?

**98Zeric** · 09-29-2015, 06:18 PM

Id like To explain a little about what's going on . I have a 98 camaro i recently did a cam (CC 219/227 ..112) And 862 (5.3) heads some prting 2.00 valves. I also updated the knock sensors to the 99+ sensors ..new.. as well as a new harness.
.I have a older Hp tuner that i tried getting my wide band to work through the egr..no luck..I didnt feel comfortable doing it with out that so i gave the local shop that dyno tunes a call...Unfortunately I have one option in my area to get my car tuned..
After the dyno tune I went out to check it out..sounded like some detonation under certain load on the car. I hooked up the scanner and sure enough some KR ...not a lot and anywhere from 1-3* KR. . So with that I did the comparison feature with the editor and the only changes made between my previous "tune" and the dyno tune:
PE tables
Throttle cracker
Throttle follower
Targeted idle speed
Adaptive idle rpm
Idle airflow
. Since the heads added near (approximately ) a point more of compression. .plus the cam change shouldn't the VE table be corrected?. And maybe recalibrate the MAF?

I appreciate any help I can get.. thanks

**Naaman** · 09-30-2015, 02:36 AM

I'm not any kind of a tuner, but the popular opinion around here is to send your ECU to Frost for a quick turn around mail order tune.

If you don't want to do that, you could always email him and get his advice. He's well liked around here and highly recommended.

**0rion** · 09-30-2015, 03:59 AM

just curious.....what's the lift on that cam? I would say yes....you got half a tune. Did you get a print out that showed power before and after and what your AFR was during the dyno? The ve and the maf tables should've been corrected. What issue are you having getting the wideband to work? I'm assuming you don't want to upgrade to the pro version so you can log wideband? I fought the 1-3 degrees of knock until I finally determined it was false knock and desensitized the sensors.

**98Zeric** · 09-30-2015, 06:20 AM

The lift .607/.614 I did get a print out..but a pretty lame one imo. It showed a before and after comparison graph.. no rpm and no AFR at any point that I seen.
After going through the steps to setting up the wideband I never seen a reading of the gauge though the scanner. I.think it was a steady reading of 56.. I have a post on here I'll have to look up to give you better information. . that thread shows what I did.

We'll... now I have been thinking about finding a used upgraded version.. pisses me off about this dyno tune..that money could've pretty much bought me one. I went the dyno tune thinking it would be as good as it could get..giving the equipment used to do the tune

I'm glad you mention that..I wondered if it could be the sensors. . Why he didn't think of that is beyond me..
After the tune he talked with me about it and mentioned the 98 knock sensors are sensitive. ..I told him I swap them out...he got quiet and changed subject

**98Zeric** · 09-30-2015, 11:44 AM

Assuming the VE tables are off. What effect does that have to the car?...difficult getting a good idle?.. KR?

**0rion** · 09-30-2015, 04:01 PM

that's kind of an odd type cam....except for the tight LSA I'd almost say that's a blower cam. Your ve would be idle and throttle transitions.....the maf would be most of your fueling. The 56 number isn't your afr....it would be like 12.8 to 13.0 to 1. I'm not one to really call anyone out because first I'm not an expert at tuning by any means.....and I'm not there in person but I will say to me it's odd that no ve or maf adjustments were made when dealing with a heads/cam car. What idle speed is the car idling at?

If you can't find a used pro version or upgrade yours to pro I would really consider talking to frost.....he's a good dude and knows his shit. Since you have a cable and can pull and flash your tunes you could do the entire thing with him through emails and not have to send your pcm in. The other thing I would strongly suggest is investing in a wideband before doing anything else.

**98Zeric** · 09-30-2015, 06:13 PM

Ya it is..I picked it up cheap..and after I bought it I research it .. i found..not a whole lot about it ..lol . I will probably look for something different.

Correct. .I didn't think the "56" was afr.. and I gave up after that. I actually do have a AFR Guage in the car

I agree.. I won't call him out or bad mouth since I am far from knowing anything tuning related well enough.I know for sure the VE table has not been charged. . I will probably get in touch with frost..that was what I was going to do originally. . Idle speed is 750-900..

Thanks alot for offering advice

**0rion** · 09-30-2015, 07:19 PM

what kinda numbers did they tell you it put down? Is it an actual wideband gauge or just one of the AFR gauges that uses the stock narrow band O2's?

**98Zeric** · 10-01-2015, 06:12 AM

360/375.. through automatic. Ls6 intake, LT ,ORY, slp cold air
It is an actual wideband. .uses its own wideband o2 sensor . Though it isn't a known brand (off ebay). So I plan on getting one of the 3 known brands in the future

**0rion** · 10-01-2015, 07:06 AM

Some of that is your cam....that cam is similar to the hotcam specs wise if you wanted something to compare against. The hotcam only has like a 525 lift or something like that but the duration is similar. That's a lot of time, work, and money to only put down 360. You need to maybe rethink how you're going about this and put together a better plan so you don't end up doing things more than once. I would also look at investing in a higher stall converter if you haven't already......if you go with a bigger cam at some point you'll need it. Just seems like you have several things working against you there. I'm not one to really push spend spend spend on people because this shit is expensive. I would say figure out a goal and work towards that goal and as long as you're happy with the end result that's all that matters. Having been there and done that I wouldn't crack a bolt on a motor to do less than a 228 duration cam, which is what I have, and even that is too small these days. I wish I would've went quite a bit bigger when I did mine.

**98Zeric** · 10-01-2015, 11:52 AM

The heads turned out to be the biggest disappointment .. and has for cam size...you are right..I was gonna go with 228/228 ,227/230 .. along those lines. I got over excited about just want to do it...and finding some great deals and one thing lead to another and I took this route.
considering I just have some "touched up" factory head and a smallish cam.. 360 to the wheels of an a4 f body is right along what it should be.
I do plan on doing better heads and bigger cam in the future. .like you mention "this shit is expensive ". But at least I don't have alot in this cam/ head swap.. live and learn

**Whamhammer** · 10-01-2015, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by 98Zeric

360/375.. through automatic. Ls6 intake, LT ,ORY, slp cold air
It is an actual wideband. .uses its own wideband o2 sensor . Though it isn't a known brand (off ebay). So I plan on getting one of the 3 known brands in the future

Have you talked to the guy who did the tune yet? Maybe if you talk to him , about your concerns (respectfully, of course) he might be able to answer your concerns and fix what wasnt done.

This way you give the guy a shot at satisfying you, and if he doesn't, you can still go to Frost.

**98Zeric** · 10-01-2015, 12:23 PM

Going to today.. yes..I'm all about figuring this out respectfully. .I am the uneducated one in this matter.. I did talk on the phone to him and he told me he tune the maf for the fueling..so I'm sure I didn't look in the right area . Guess he doesn't mess with ve tables as he feels there's not a benefit. Today he gonna check the KR and idle

**98Zeric** · 10-09-2015, 04:33 AM

Update. . KR looks good..but now it dies transitioning to drive. . I'm done dealing with him. I made some adjustments to take care of the issue with it dieing ..so far the adjustments are working haha.