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vibration at the seats, bad driveshaft angle?

This is a discussion on vibration at the seats, bad driveshaft angle? within the Drivetrain forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Hi guys. I replaced my axle bearings and hubs because they were causing excessive noise and vibration. When i'm driving ...

  1. #1
    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    vibration at the seats, bad driveshaft angle?

    Hi guys. I replaced my axle bearings and hubs because they were causing excessive noise and vibration. When i'm driving and i reach around 50mph to 70mph I feel my seat vibrating. i feel the vibration at the center of the car between the seats area. The car has stock rear end, aftermarket non adjustable torque arm, panhard bar, LCA's and SFCs. The driveshaft is the stock one.

    I check the U joints for play and I don't feel any. Could the driveshaft be bent or the angle off? The weight on the DS seem to be in place. There is a little bit of play at the transmision tail shaft. When I took off the DS I was able to grab the tail shaft with my fingers and it has alot of play. With the DS on there is minimal play. Thanks.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    What are you finding play in? Are you talking about the output shaft of the transmission that is sticking out when you remove the driveshaft??
    Or are you talking about the tailhousing itself??

    Guess I need more description to help. Though I think you are in the right area as that's where alot of vibration originates. Especially since it sounds like you've replaced alot of stuff with aftermarket parts.

    I would start by checking pinion angles. Aftermarket non adjustable torque arm may have put the driveshaft at an angle that causes excessive wear on your output shaft bushing, which over a period of time would cause a vibration that wouldn't have been there imediately. Over time the bushing could wear, which causes the yoke to wobble. Usually at the same time you would also see some seepage, since the seal can't do it's job with the yoke moving around. I can go on and on with scenarios on vibrations.

    Keep in mind with aftermarket stuff that uses poly mounts, more noise and vibration will occur naturally that you didn't feel before with rubber bushings.

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    Senior Member tatertot91's Avatar
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    Your car must like you a lot

    Is the car lowered? I wouldn't expect it to be pinion angle since its a non adjustable TA.

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    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    What are you finding play in? Are you talking about the output shaft of the transmission that is sticking out when you remove the driveshaft??
    Or are you talking about the tailhousing itself??

    Guess I need more description to help. Though I think you are in the right area as that's where alot of vibration originates. Especially since it sounds like you've replaced alot of stuff with aftermarket parts.

    I would start by checking pinion angles. Aftermarket non adjustable torque arm may have put the driveshaft at an angle that causes excessive wear on your output shaft bushing, which over a period of time would cause a vibration that wouldn't have been there imediately. Over time the bushing could wear, which causes the yoke to wobble. Usually at the same time you would also see some seepage, since the seal can't do it's job with the yoke moving around. I can go on and on with scenarios on vibrations.

    Keep in mind with aftermarket stuff that uses poly mounts, more noise and vibration will occur naturally that you didn't feel before with rubber bushings.
    is the tranny output shaft itself(only when the DS is removed) I have a video i'll post tomorrow. As far as the torque is an UMI non adjustable. It supposed to put the angle as the stock Torque arm does. I check the poly bushing and its good. I replaced the seal once but it was before this new torque arm. How do I check if the angle is correct?

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    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tatertot91 View Post
    Your car must like you a lot

    Is the car lowered? I wouldn't expect it to be pinion angle since its a non adjustable TA.
    The car is lowered in the front only. I took to get aligned after I put the new eibach springs. Yeah I guess it loves me alot lately. he just hit 100k a little while ago. i guess is time to replace some parts

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Have you got anything done to the car recently? Exhaust work?

    I had exhaust work done on one of my older cars once and from them heating the exhaust pipe up they actually threw the alignment off of the DS.

    I had to remove the DS and get it re-balanced.

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    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Have you got anything done to the car recently? Exhaust work?

    I had exhaust work done on one of my older cars once and from them heating the exhaust pipe up they actually threw the alignment off of the DS.

    I had to remove the DS and get it re-balanced.
    The only recent work I had was the wheel bearings all around. I'm rotating tires one side at the time today to see if its tire or wheel related. I had this problem with this car since I bought it. changed tires twice and still there. I'm not sure i previous owner did something and threw the DS out of balance.

    Here is the video of the tranny output shaft that I mentioned before:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-K4de5IVF4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-K4de5IVF4[/ame]

    Is that normal or does it have excessive play? When the DS is on it it don't move very minimal.

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    You should have more wiggle with the DS removed as you mentioned. I don't really know how much, but if the rear inner seal was bad, my guess is you would be leaking.

    I think what you are showing is normal.

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    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    You should have more wiggle with the DS removed as you mentioned. I don't really know how much, but if the rear inner seal was bad, my guess is you would be leaking.

    I think what you are showing is normal.
    Thanks. That's a huge relief. I was thinking I had some major issue there. I just finished driving around for 20 mins each time with tire rotation. Some vibration is following a set of tires. The vibration on the seat quiets downs alot when i move the tires to the front. i drove the car constanly between 50 to 80 mph on highway. When I feel the vibration on the seat (which is less since the tire rotation). I put the tranny in Neutral and I still feel the vibration. The vibration on the seat is kinda randomly when i try to recreate the same speed when it starts. Since the tire rotation i can feel the steering wheel vibrate slightly.

    On the final run I drove the car to 100 mph for brief periods. Once I start to hit 90 to 100 mph the steering wheel starts to shake really hard and I can hear some dashboard noise. The shaking is more like up and down like the whole steering column is shaking.

    The sad part is that if its tire related I will have to wait a while because the tires have alot of tread left on them. I have to buy 2 tires soon (the set that doesn't vibrate). I will have all tires rebalanced to check if it is a possibility.

    Should I discard dignostic of the DS and /or improper angle? It sounds like it's not those. Another thing that i want to ask is can wheel get out of balance with time? Do I need to rotate the tires every 5k? I never rotate tires. Thanks for all the input.

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    a wheel can become unbalanced. I've had wheels balanced and within 1hr of leaving the tire store I drove right back and had them balance them again.

    It takes very little heat on the DS to make it become out of round. I wouldn't necessarily omit that either.

    If the vibration is being felt in the steering wheel itself, I would bet that your vibration is a result of a front wheel problem, whether it's the tire or something else.

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    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    a wheel can become unbalanced. I've had wheels balanced and within 1hr of leaving the tire store I drove right back and had them balance them again.

    It takes very little heat on the DS to make it become out of round. I wouldn't necessarily omit that either.

    If the vibration is being felt in the steering wheel itself, I would bet that your vibration is a result of a front wheel problem, whether it's the tire or something else.
    Thanks 35th! i was looking at the front suspension parts and the boots on my outer tierods are broken. They move just a little bit but i think this will cause the car to pull to one side when I let go of the steering wheel. Not sure about the inner ones.
    I will have the tires rebalanced as soon as I replace the other two. i think I will put some decent tires this time and see if that makes a difference. I'm hoping I don't have a bad wheel. different people had checked them and told me that the are good. I use the car as a DD so is kind of annoying to feel this vibration.

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    Bird Rehab Center ThunderChicken's Avatar
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    You most likely tossed a weight. Always check the simple stuff first!

    Missing tie-rod boots will eventually cause a fabulous condition called bump steer. It's great. Jerks the wheel every time you go over ANY bump. YAY.

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    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    Thanks Thunder. i will replace those as soon as possible.

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    Import Ambassador nomolos1's Avatar
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    Check your hubs too. I just had a similar problem. I had everything done that rotates,
    1 new disc brake....not it
    2 tires balance...not it
    3 wheels re rounded..not it
    4 Drive Shaft balanced...not it
    5 new u joints...not it
    6 passenger hub...cut out some vibration
    6 1/2 driver hub..... way better
    7 I have somme matching slot/cross rotors for the rear I'll throw on since I have them.

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    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomolos1 View Post
    Check your hubs too. I just had a similar problem. I had everything done that rotates,
    1 new disc brake....not it
    2 tires balance...not it
    3 wheels re rounded..not it
    4 Drive Shaft balanced...not it
    5 new u joints...not it
    6 passenger hub...cut out some vibration
    6 1/2 driver hub..... way better
    7 I have somme matching slot/cross rotors for the rear I'll throw on since I have them.
    I just put brand new Timken hubs, the old ones were bad. I'm trying to get another driveshaft to compare. The weights seem to be there but im not sure if is out of balance.
    Last edited by JayTA98; 12-24-2010 at 12:08 PM.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Something else I do that might help.

    I have an old Snap On chassis balancer. It actually balances the tire while it's mounted on the car. So you end up balancing the brake hub, rotor, etc...the entire rotating assembly.

    I found on stubborn tires that I can't seem to fix on my electronic spin balancer, I'll break out the ole snap on chassis balancer and it's cured most issues in that area.

    Not many places have these anymore but you might find them in old mom and pop tire stores that have been around 30 years or more. Might be something to look into as well.

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    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Something else I do that might help.

    I have an old Snap On chassis balancer. It actually balances the tire while it's mounted on the car. So you end up balancing the brake hub, rotor, etc...the entire rotating assembly.

    I found on stubborn tires that I can't seem to fix on my electronic spin balancer, I'll break out the ole snap on chassis balancer and it's cured most issues in that area.

    Not many places have these anymore but you might find them in old mom and pop tire stores that have been around 30 years or more. Might be something to look into as well.
    yeah i heard of those but no luck finding one.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayTA98 View Post
    yeah i heard of those but no luck finding one.
    Another place you find them would be an older dealership. I've seen them there before. They bring them out for the most stubborn jobs with vibrations.

    They are a bit more time consuming to use, and can also be dangerous if not used properly, which might be some of the reasons why newer shops got away from them.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Here is what you are looking for.

    Don't mind all the dust, it's been 3-4 years since I've had to use it.

    Too bad you don't live nearby.


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    Import Ambassador nomolos1's Avatar
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    You could also check ther rear end. See if it is wet back there. If may just need some service.

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