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strange or moser 12 bolt?

This is a discussion on strange or moser 12 bolt? within the Drivetrain forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I don't think it's possible. I've seen wheels up lauches on 8 second cars with those 12 bolts a non ...

  1. #21
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I don't think it's possible. I've seen wheels up lauches on 8 second cars with those 12 bolts a non issue, which is why I have a hard time believing all this internet crap with people having issues on 12 second street cars

    Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the 9 inch rears, I build those too. Just as long as you stay away from the production OEM 3rd members, they have weak pinion bearing supports. I can't tell you how many dozens of those I've taken apart only to find cast iron pieces fall apart from the support area. Very poor design in my opinion. Even the "N" cases broke in the pinion bearing support area on occasion.
    If you use a 9 inch, go with an aftermarket Strange or Currie 3rd member and build from there. I don't use anything but aftermarket 9 inch 3rd members anymore.

  2. #22
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TmaxicanA View Post
    this is a great thread. i have been looking at rear diffs for awhile. and thought moser 9" was the only way to go lol. thanks for all this info (not my thread but i appriciate it none the less.
    A Moser 9" wouldn't be a bad way to go, I just don't like Mosers 12 bolt castings. I've had bad dealings with them in the past on other issues as well so I just prefer to use Strange now. They have treated me right for over 10 years.

    If it were me I prefer to just avoid Moser all together. If you want a 9 inch I'd rather pay a little more a get one from Fab 9, Strange, Currie etc...

  3. #23
    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    If it were me I prefer to just avoid Moser all together.
    This.

  4. #24
    The red dragon bpopham22's Avatar
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    thanks for all the comments guys. The only reason i want a 12 bolt is because i want to keep my abs. The car will only see the track maybe once a year and thats only for a couple of passes. I just want to know what will be the most headache free of the 2 brands,basically the best quality. I will be putting a procharger on next summer so the rear end will see mainly hard 2-1 shifts and hard 3-2 shifts. No hard launching at the track every weekend.

  5. #25
    ;) Packy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos View Post
    My biggest problem with the 12 bolt is how the torque arm mounts to it.
    Seems it would be a stressing point.


    I like how it connects to the 9". If it bends or breaks...the whole housing isn't shot.

    My torque arm broke before the rear did which I thought was a good thing. Heck a spohn TQ arm is no joke and the 12 bolt was still holding strong.
    Last edited by Packy; 09-05-2010 at 04:01 PM.

  6. #26
    The red dragon bpopham22's Avatar
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    is it an adujustable TA? cuz i plan on lowering my car in november with the new rear install?

  7. #27
    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    I know guys with 9 second LSX cars w/12 bolts that have put them on the rear bumper also. Turbo 400 vs a T56. No china crap here, everyone around here got there Strange 12 bolts right from Strange, usually through F Body Central. I got mine from the same way so I know the process and know what I got. WHether you like it or not I've seen alot of 6 speed cars break 12 bolts. This is nothing new, I suspect you guys don't race alot or hang around the track much.... EVERYONE on tech will recomend a 9 inch for a six speed car for this reason.

  8. #28
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    I know guys with 9 second LSX cars w/12 bolts that have put them on the rear bumper also. Turbo 400 vs a T56. No china crap here, everyone around here got there Strange 12 bolts right from Strange, usually through F Body Central. I got mine from the same way so I know the process and know what I got. WHether you like it or not I've seen alot of 6 speed cars break 12 bolts. This is nothing new, I suspect you guys don't race alot or hang around the track much.... EVERYONE on tech will recomend a 9 inch for a six speed car for this reason.
    Thats hogwash. The 6 speeds will break before a 12 bolt will. They have weak output shafts, crappy sincros among other things. They need to be beefed for serious track use, and even the more serious drag cars that want to run a stick go for a Jerico and scrap the 6 speed.
    If someone can't get a 12bolt to live, bring it to me. I'll set it up right.

  9. #29
    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Thats hogwash. The 6 speeds will break before a 12 bolt will. They have weak output shafts, crappy sincros among other things. They need to be beefed for serious track use, and even the more serious drag cars that want to run a stick go for a Jerico and scrap the 6 speed.
    If someone can't get a 12bolt to live, bring it to me. I'll set it up right.
    lol. You're right, I'm lying.

  10. #30
    ;) Packy's Avatar
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    I have heard of these magical 12 bolts fail but i have never personally seen any proof or pics posted up of it. I think that the Strange or Moser 12 bolts are equally adequate for a daily driver/weekend track car. If you are a little more serious then go for the 9 inch.

    I imagine they can break but if you have a measly 500-650 rwhp output I doubt you will be breaking a 12 bolt. Above that well you have to consider the pay to play option. I am sure if you are making more than 650 rwhp with traction then you know that you will find a weak link eventually.

  11. #31
    Member Supershafts's Avatar
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    inmy01..... you are saying HP killed the 12 bolt, and nothing else was a factor such as wheel hop or tire shake....

    It just broke off the line.....what EXACTLY broke.... because if a rear broke off the line there is a good chance that the problem can easily be distinguished since it wasn't driven on at all after that.

    I find it hard to believe that a properly set up, being used properly, just broke...



    Firebirdjones is right...... The 9" must have that 3rd bearing, it MUST be in perfect condition ALL the time.... if not, say good by to your shaft, trans and rear... you will be buying all 3 again....

  12. #32
    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    9 inch is alot tougher, this is old news.

  13. #33
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    9 inch is alot tougher, this is old news.
    Eh, it depends on what we are talking about. No need to be that way inmy01ta, we aren't trying to dog ya here. Just people like myself with a ton of experience building these things have seen many failures for many different reasons. And from what I've seen it's not always the rearend itself to blame.
    You really have to be carefull what you read on the internet and take it with a grain of salt. Which is why I told you to get it from the horses mouth and call Strange for the facts.

    The 9 inch can be stronger as long as an aftermarket 3rd member is used. If you use a factory production 3rd member, even a nodular case,,,forget it. I've broken the pinion bearing support on 9 inchers so often I don't consider it a "fix all" rearend anymore.
    They are hard on the pinion bearing support because of the pinion centerline in relation to the ring gear. That relationship is what gives them strength, but it also stresses that rear bearing support, and it robs horsepower as a result. I've blown the pinion gears right through the cases with the driveshaft still attached to it. The aftermarket cases are much better in that respect with much more strength and webbing cast into this pinion bearing area.
    The only reason I like them would be for an all out race application where gear changes are done frequently for various track conditions, and/or engine and transmission combinations. Like a dirt track car for instance.
    They are also still relatively cheap to buy and still plentifull to find in the junk yards, they are cheaper to narrow and sometimes easier to adapt to various platforms.

    Other than that I don't get that excited about them.

    The only drawback to the 12 bolt is the fact that gear setup is a little more involved and time consuming. Not easy to just swap gears in the pits looking for that little bit extra. If you build one with aftermarket parts like people are doing with a 9 inch they can be made to hold well over 1,000 hp. There is no arguing that. Dave Henninger proved a long time ago the little 8.5 inch 10 bolts can live under his 8 second 160 mph 71 camaro in a very highly competitive NHRA class with a big shot of nitrous. So why people think a 12 bolt won't do it boggles me.
    People see one rear break and think they are all junk without getting the facts as to why it broke in the first place. People just want to blame the rearend.

  14. #34
    ;) Packy's Avatar
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    Well said Firebird. People want to be internet experts these days and search threads rather than go to the track. If they were that bad then no one would buy them.

  15. #35
    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    Well said Firebird. People want to be internet experts these days and search threads rather than go to the track. If they were that bad then no one would buy them.
    Well there's a reason evryone always says M6-9 inch, A4-12 bolt. I'm no internet expert, I spend as much time at the track as anyone.
    Last edited by INMY01TA; 09-06-2010 at 03:35 PM.

  16. #36
    Member Supershafts's Avatar
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    People just yell 9" as soon as they get the chance when someone asks, "what rear should i get"

    Not against the 9" totally, but if you have no idea what you are looking or listening for, when that 3rd bearing has a hiccup, that pinion assembly becomes like a rocket, and kills everything in front of it..


    They make the 12 bolt as a drop out to, and right now i forgot who, but someone is making a drop out D-60 they call the D-69, i forget his name, jrat something...
    So technically the best of all worlds has been combined now as a D-69.

    So if someone just wanted to get that post count up now, when they see "i need a rear" they could quickly post get a D-69...
    The pricing on that rear was pretty cheap too.

    For dirt cars/ovalcars firebirdjones, quick change ... even drag cars doing double duty without a OD trans could benefit from the QC, just most with rear fuel tanks will need to be modified
    Last edited by Supershafts; 09-06-2010 at 05:56 PM.

  17. #37
    ;) Packy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    Well there's a reason evryone always says M6-9 inch, A4-12 bolt. I'm no internet expert, I spend as much time at the track as anyone.
    Be careful because not everyone says that. I bought my 12 bolt when I had a 6 speed. I don't think that I am an exception because I knew several others that did as well.

    I always believe that the 12 bolts are better for the street car with limited track duty plus they are a bit lighter. Like I mentioned before I have heard of these blow-outs but never seen them or proof of them.

  18. #38
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    Be careful because not everyone says that. I bought my 12 bolt when I had a 6 speed. I don't think that I am an exception because I knew several others that did as well.

    I always believe that the 12 bolts are better for the street car with limited track duty plus they are a bit lighter. Like I mentioned before I have heard of these blow-outs but never seen them or proof of them.
    Ya I'm not real sure where that silly saying came from but I'm guessing internet jibber jabber. Everyone has their little groupies I guess.
    Showing a 12 bolt letting go still doesn't explain anything. Like as to why?? More than not I've seen poor assembly techniques be the cause. Not just 12 bolts but all rearends. So take it with a grain of salt.
    And from what little I saw from the short video, seemed a little inexperienced to me.

  19. #39
    ;) Packy's Avatar
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    Well I had this very conversation 8 years later with my buddy who put a 9 inch in his car. My shitty 12 bolt has made quicker passes at the track and never been out of my car. His has been out 3 times. He makes more power than I do but he has shit track times to show for it. All in all the car is like 4100 lbs or something after what he did to it.

  20. #40
    used and abused at wot ibanez7's Avatar
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    STRANGE DANA S60....

    bigger and stronger then any 12 bolt, and cheaper then the moser m9 setup.

    Dana 60 replacement parts are very affordable in the unlikely event you ever break something. The Strange Dana S60 already comes set up and are easy to bolt right in.

    I've had a my s60 for 2 years now (installed myself with a friend).. handles abuse and is bullet proof... yeah it might weight 220 lbs, so I just add more hp to make up for the added weight.
    Last edited by ibanez7; 09-07-2010 at 10:27 AM.

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