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How To Break a 10-Bolt

This is a discussion on How To Break a 10-Bolt within the Drivetrain forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Well that's the way I consider most of these 4th gens. They pretty much all had power everything and AC. ...

  1. #61
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Well that's the way I consider most of these 4th gens. They pretty much all had power everything and AC. Most of that stuff was standard equipment. Very rarely will you ever see one with crank up windows, and even those stripped down cars still have AC and stereos.

  2. #62
    Senior Member raynor139's Avatar
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    2002 Trans Am WS6 M6

    Quote Originally Posted by Naaman View Post
    By "fully loaded" we're talking all options?
    I mean all the fluids and everything needed for the car to run is in them when weighed. A lot of people like to say GM weighs the cars without fluids.

    6th gen reviews were posted last night. This is the weights as obtained by various magazines.

    3672 - 1SS
    3760 - 2SS
    3461 - LT/RS V6

    The 1SS is a manual the 2SS is automatic.
    Last edited by raynor139; 10-16-2015 at 08:39 AM.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Naaman's Avatar
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    Cayanne
    98 Z28 Vert M6

    That's not too bad.
    Lid, Throttle Body, LS6 Intake, Heads, Cam, Magnaflow, LS7 Clutch, SFCs, STB, Panhard Bar, Strano Springs, Hollow Sway Bars, Poly/Roto LCAs, Konis, MGW Shifter

  4. #64
    Senior Member kingls1's Avatar
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    1999 Trans-Am, 2012 Sonic

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post

    My T-top 4th gen is just over 3600 lbs. and that was when it still had the 10 bolt in it, stock wheels, stock everything.
    My convertible 4th gen is only 60 lbs. heavier than my T-top, both on the same scale. Really not much difference in the two. and the convertible had a heavier automatic trans in it.

    Considering all the bells and whistles these cars have on them, they aren't extremely heavy, but they aren't featherweights either.

    What's funny is that my old 97 LT1 convertible was lighter than both of my aluminum block LS1 4th gens, it weighed 3560.
    lol
    Weighed my car at the track yesterday it came in at 3560 with a Strange S60, full UMI suspension from the Tourqe arm back, LS7 clutch, After market 17" wheels, 1/4 tank of fuel.
    Only weight reduction would be full exhaust, super hawk hood, egr.
    99 Trans Am, SLP Lid, Blackwing filter, smooth bellow, Ported TB, LS6 intake, Ws6 lower ram air box, OBX LT's, Magna Flow cat back, LS7 clutch, Tick MC, Hurst Shifter, Frost Tune, UMI SFC,LAC, STB, PB, Torq Arm, Super Hawk hood, Torq Thrust II, Kee Audio.
    Strange S60 4:10's, D&S Rotors, S/S Brake Lines.
    Nitto NT05R Track Tire's, 12.7 @ 108 / 1.82 60'
    Wish list.
    Coil overs, Heads & Cam

  5. #65
    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    '02 Trans Am WS-6, 6M

    Funny thing is the brochures max out the Fbodies at ~3475 in 1999, ~upper 3,500's in 2000-2001, and mid 3,600's in 2002. (Yes, I have a brochure for each year )

    Was the standard cassette player that much lighter than the standard cd player that replaced it? I can't think of any real options that would add that much weight in the later years, and all of them have the 16.8 gallon gas tanks. 01-02's had Speedlines on WS6's, but they only weighed about 25 lbs, should be the same as the previois wheels.
    Last edited by Whamhammer; 10-20-2015 at 01:42 PM.

  6. #66
    Member DarrenWS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whamhammer View Post
    Funny thing is the brochures max out the Fbodies at ~3475 in 1999, ~upper 3,500's in 2000-2001, and mid 3,600's in 2002. (Yes, I have a brochure for each year )

    Was the standard cassette player that much lighter than the standard cd player that replaced it? I can't think of any real options that would add that much weight in the later years, and all of them have the 16.8 gallon gas tanks. 01-02's had Speedlines on WS6's, but they only weighed about 25 lbs, should be the same as the previois wheels.
    LQ4 cam in '01/'02s and LS6 intake must be it. Lol, for certainly I don't know what would cause it either. I would assume different materials of metals perhaps, since 2002 was probably more of a "Get them out the door finale" year they could have used heavier weight steels underneath. If not I would assume metal reinforcements for he ever growing safety standards for collisions.

    My car on the same scale Jeff was on came in at 3,715 with me in it, minus my 171lbs, 3,544. Stock with GMMG catback ( heavier than the OE pipes & Flowmaster 80 it replaced ). Nothing removed/taken out, 1/2 tank of your finest 93, and I had a light breakfast. With an upgraded rear I say your weight number is impressive Jeff!
    kingls1 likes this.
    2000 Trans Am WS.6 M6

    SLP lid & bellow w/ K&N, GMMG catback w/ Corsa Clones, UMI SFC, UMI Adj. Panhard, UMI Adj. TQ arm w/ relocation kit, Eibach prokit, Bilstein HDs, Nitto NT555s, skip shift elim, whiteface overlays, 20% tint, matte black decal/overlays

  7. #67
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Even when speaking of the same year 4th gen, each model is going to be quite a bit different in weight. SS's and WS-6's had larger wheels and tires, they weigh more than the stock 16's on everything else. Bigger sway bars also don't help. Brakes got bigger on the cars in 98 as well.

    SS Camaro's had a fiberglass hood but I'll tell you first hand moving them around, they aren't light by any means. I've picked up steel hoods that felt better.

    There are so many variables and so many things have been changed on these cars over the last 15-20 years, you simply just have to scale each car yourself and see where it's at. I personally would pay no attention to sales brochures or shipping weights. Nothing against posting that info, I just don't find it "real world" 15 years after the fact.

    Hell even tires weigh drastically different depending on the brand and structure of the tire. Check out all the weights of different brand tires, you'll be surprised at how much they differ.
    Batteries are the same way, I used to take a scale into the auto parts store and start weighing batteries, they can change up to 15 lbs.

    Like Darren mentioned, changing the exhaust has an affect. Both of my SS Camaro's had the optional SLP dual/dual, one of them with the CME option on top of that. You can bet these systems are heavier than the smaller stock OEM system, It has larger piping throughout the system.

    We can even get picky about smaller things. Both of mine also had optional SS floor mats and rear deck mat. Have you ever picked up one of those SS mats? Damn those things are heavy for a floor mat. I bought stock OEM floor mats from GM to keep the SS mats from being used. Those stock floor mats weighed practically nothing compared to the SS mats.

    Funny how the silly little things seem trivial but all this stuff throughout the car adds up and makes a big difference in the end.

  8. #68
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    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    I take all the floor mats out at the track, but leave the spare as that is weight over the ass end. I was shocked at how heavy our Ram Air hood is. I need to scale the car again in its track trim to see what things look like.

  9. #69
    Senior Member kingls1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    I take all the floor mats out at the track, but leave the spare as that is weight over the ass end. I was shocked at how heavy our Ram Air hood is. I need to scale the car again in its track trim to see what things look like.
    I think your wheels are going to be a huge loss of weight for you. I know when we bolted them on my car I couldn't believe the weight difference over my rears. I know one of my biggest weight loss was my hood, my new Super Hawk is only 25lbs I never scaled my stocker but it feels like a feather to a bowling ball, however my UMI tourqe arm feels like the same difference. Honestly I feel I have added lots of weight of all my mods (seen below) but have built a rock solid platform that I know I can enjoy and is by far better than the factory ever considered.......
    Last edited by kingls1; 10-24-2015 at 08:21 AM.

  10. #70
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    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    The stock wheels and street tires are something like 55 lbs each, so it did drop a bunch with the track wheel and tires.

  11. #71
    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    '02 Trans Am WS-6, 6M

    Quote Originally Posted by kingls1 View Post
    I think your wheels are going to be a huge loss of weight for you. I know when we bolted them on my car I couldn't believe the weight difference over my rears. I know one of my biggest weight loss was my hood, my new Super Hawk is only 25lbs I never scaled my stocker but it feels like a feather to a bowling ball, however my UMI tourqe arm feels like the same difference. Honestly I feel I have added lots of weight of all my mods (seen below) but have built a rock solid platform that I know I can enjoy and is by far better than the factory ever considered.......
    I weighed both the stockers from my 02WS6 and the factory 17 inch C5 Z06's before I mounted tires. The 02 WS6's were 25 lbs and the Z06's were 20. My Continental ExtremeContact DW 285/40/17's were 28 lbs.

  12. #72
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Switching to aluminum 15" wheels I find a solid tenth at the track on any car I've tried that with. It's not just making the car lighter but the car also doesn't have to work as hard to push it down track (remember rotational mass sucks HP)

    When it comes to weight it really pays to sweat the details. In PS we have to run factory wheels and tires. We are talking steel wheels in 14-15" and polyglass goodyear reproduction bias plys.
    Weight reduction done purposely is not allowed, which is why guys that are serious start with the most advantageous platform to start with. Usually a sedan model with no options.
    So with that said you really have to get creative. I used to do things like weigh the factory 14" steel wheels. They do tend to vary a slight amount, and the heavier ones go on the back with the idea of having more weight over the back of the car because we are traction limited.
    Then do things like taking the weight off the front of the car like weighing all the stock sized batteries and buying the lightest one you can find. (I touched on that earlier)
    There is all kinds of stupid little shit like this you can do to make the car work better.
    Then guys got carried away and started doing stuff like using a stock size battery, gutting the case and putting a little motorcycle sized battery inside. The case on the outside still used stock terminals and cables, and then was wired to the smaller batter inside. Looked stock, couldn't tell. A lot of ingenuity to save 20 lbs. off the nose....but it's illegal per PS rules.
    Per rules you are also allowed to run spare tire and jack, because it's factory. Some guys remove it all if the car works well, but I find (as some others also did this) is that if you have a car that isn't hooking that well, we would run the spare and jack, and actually fill the spare tire with water for extra weight over the back. These guys running PS and F.A.S.T. are extremely smart and have tons of tricks, most they won't share and want to keep their advantages.

  13. #73
    Senior Member kingls1's Avatar
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    that's cool FBJ my brother-in-law raced circle track for a long time and told me a lot of stories how guys found ways of finding more speed. There were some pretty cool things people did. One was where a guy ran No2 in a separate line through his radiator hose into his intake and into the bottom of the carb for a single small shot if needed

  14. #74
    Member DarrenWS6's Avatar
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    Shoot that is a lot of stuff I had never thought of. I love my car in its factory form ( physically, not power/handling, i'm just pleased with that ) and I would never want to hack it up or monkey around with reducing weight. But if I ever get a set of aftermarket wheels I'll surely not want to add weight.

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