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Driveshalft

This is a discussion on Driveshalft within the Drivetrain forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; This debate is of the same sort all over. For instance, there's one here about oil. Ppl swear by RP ...

  1. #21
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    This debate is of the same sort all over. For instance, there's one here about oil. Ppl swear by RP and other swear at it. To each his own.. Do your homework, make your chose, live with your consequences. On a lighter note, I got a black camaro, he got a pewter....cool

  2. #22
    Member Supershafts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Mine has been flawless for the last 3 years. Don't see where OP claimed he was going to be running 1000hp so all the talk about 1000hp claims is a moot point regardless of whether it's fact or fiction.

    I'm only at 500rwhp and around 440rwtq and I beat the shit out of mine on occassion. I don't frequent the strip all the time though.

    Bought mine from Bob at EPP aka Brute Speed now back in 2008. His recommendation.

    I will agree though that a local, reputable drive line shop can make you one as well. I had my POS 2 piece DS in my 96 Camaro break and went with this route. Cost was 100 out the door for a new, one-piece steel DS and had no problems other than it becoming out of balance a few months later, but that was due to the exhaust work I had done.

    I do have an OEM drive shaft from a 2002 Camaro SS sitting in my basement if anyone is interested

    You didn't read anything i said, they said it'll work with 1000hp, and several didn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    I would ask that you not insult members of this board, or myself with such statements. Bob from Brute Speed, and Eric from Midwest Chassis currently recommend PST driveshafts. If there was such a problem with them, apparently it no longer exists, or was a problem related to installation - but you seem to be quite sure it was not. Strange two leading individuals in the drivetrain business would recommend an inferior product. Maybe they just buy into the advertising as well.

    I would also ask that you refrain from using racist remarks, generalizing inferior parts as "china parts". That kind of talk has no place here.

    As Jon, and you, have stated, a local driveline shop can fabricate a driveshaft as well. It's another option for the OP. As I stated, it would be wise for the OP to investigate what would be best for his situation. Contact any manufacturer, and explain what is needed. Get their input. Then, base a decision on that.
    Ok stop being a little school girl and putting accusations up that ARE NOT taking place, no one was insulted until possibly a few words prior to the comma here

    1-A. Are you aware of the china parts used in that company ? yes or no
    1-B. Then the op does have 3 recommendations from 3 people who did not know what is really going on and of the situation with that recommendation, TRUE or FALSE????


    2. i didn't insult ANYONE , you have no fact or knowledge of what is or has gone on with the company mentioned so that is a TRUE statement not a insult.

    3. i pointed out a FACT that AGAIN you know nothing about... Another TRUE FACT

    4. as EVERYONE on that board knows as you most definitely do not know, more than a few people posted the pics of the broken china parts in question and almost everyone that had issues and weren't making anywhere near the limit.

    Bob sells parts made by others, and midwest sells shafts they DO NOT make, I do all facets of driveline work other than transmissions and i do make driveshafts, I repair other peoples shafts, and advise people of what to do and why and what to watch out for.
    I am not a salesman, and a salesman is not an expert, they are a person getting a better deal from another manufacture or shop PUTTING more money in there pocket by a percentage discount and so for that they WILL push that product.


    I can generalize china crap because i constantly see china crap it is not a racist remark it is a TRUE fact, when something is supposed to measure 1.886 and it measures 1.890 or 1.882 that is called piss poor china crap.... not a racist remark.

    Let me show you an example of racist since CLEARLY you do not know what a racist remark is.....

    Racist remark -> Look at that chink standing there

    Fact of material and quality -> the part is a pos copy made in china

    SO again read this clearly.... The OP would be better off dealing with a local shop and THEN still i recommend the OP to ask them to leave the china on the shelf. . .

    Is that better for you, or do i need umpteen more examples of racist and china facts of junk.

    This is a car forum that is ABOUT helping people with the right info and pointing out problems of specific issues, issues you would have no knowledge of since
    1. you aren't a driveline expert
    2. you do not build driveshafts or drivelines
    3. i have seen the parts of interest broken on several other good advertizing shops shafts, and there are more than just 1 big name shop using them. .
    4. A couple of large crates going to pst from china wasn't accidentally delivered to your shop full of china crap which funny enough just so happened to get delivered about 2 months after the biggest longest thread on techs site history...
    5. i am not surprised that thread is gone simply because of what many of that forums advertisers were saying and they weren't looking good to the members there at all....



    I am helping a member with the right information

    I would hope they aren't using china stuff anymore, but i haven't seen that.

    Even on the web site if you knew what you are looking at it's still there. Here's china, a 1480 series china joint https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6138144_n.jpg
    .
    There you go, find a quality U.S. made joint that looks like that . . . .
    .
    Last edited by Supershafts; 05-12-2012 at 08:55 PM.

  3. #23
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supershafts:2775356
    You didn't read anything i said, they said it'll work with 1000hp, and several didn't.
    .
    Yes, I did. Clearly you didn't comprehend my response.
    Last edited by 35th-ANV-SS; 05-13-2012 at 12:40 AM.
    It's on jackstands.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supershafts View Post
    You didn't read anything i said, they said it'll work with 1000hp, and several didn't.




    Ok stop being a little school girl and putting accusations up that ARE NOT taking place, no one was insulted until possibly a few words prior to the comma here

    1-A. Are you aware of the china parts used in that company ? yes or no
    1-B. Then the op does have 3 recommendations from 3 people who did not know what is really going on and of the situation with that recommendation, TRUE or FALSE????


    2. i didn't insult ANYONE , you have no fact or knowledge of what is or has gone on with the company mentioned so that is a TRUE statement not a insult.

    3. i pointed out a FACT that AGAIN you know nothing about... Another TRUE FACT

    4. as EVERYONE on that board knows as you most definitely do not know, more than a few people posted the pics of the broken china parts in question and almost everyone that had issues and weren't making anywhere near the limit.

    Bob sells parts made by others, and midwest sells shafts they DO NOT make, I do all facets of driveline work other than transmissions and i do make driveshafts, I repair other peoples shafts, and advise people of what to do and why and what to watch out for.
    I am not a salesman, and a salesman is not an expert, they are a person getting a better deal from another manufacture or shop PUTTING more money in there pocket by a percentage discount and so for that they WILL push that product.


    I can generalize china crap because i constantly see china crap it is not a racist remark it is a TRUE fact, when something is supposed to measure 1.886 and it measures 1.890 or 1.882 that is called piss poor china crap.... not a racist remark.

    Let me show you an example of racist since CLEARLY you do not know what a racist remark is.....

    Racist remark -> Look at that chink standing there

    Fact of material and quality -> the part is a pos copy made in china

    SO again read this clearly.... The OP would be better off dealing with a local shop and THEN still i recommend the OP to ask them to leave the china on the shelf. . .

    Is that better for you, or do i need umpteen more examples of racist and china facts of junk.

    This is a car forum that is ABOUT helping people with the right info and pointing out problems of specific issues, issues you would have no knowledge of since
    1. you aren't a driveline expert
    2. you do not build driveshafts or drivelines
    3. i have seen the parts of interest broken on several other good advertizing shops shafts, and there are more than just 1 big name shop using them. .
    4. A couple of large crates going to pst from china wasn't accidentally delivered to your shop full of china crap which funny enough just so happened to get delivered about 2 months after the biggest longest thread on techs site history...
    5. i am not surprised that thread is gone simply because of what many of that forums advertisers were saying and they weren't looking good to the members there at all....



    I am helping a member with the right information

    I would hope they aren't using china stuff anymore, but i haven't seen that.

    Even on the web site if you knew what you are looking at it's still there. Here's china, a 1480 series china joint https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6138144_n.jpg
    .
    There you go, find a quality U.S. made joint that looks like that . . . .
    .
    I guess you are the leading expert in the world on driveshafts then. And apparently know just about everything, as you have made statements without having all the facts either.

    1 - You have no idea what I or other members here do for a living or are personally involved in. Yet, you make the statement that I/we are not a driveline expert and have no knowledge of anything therefore. And you also resort to calling me a "little school girl". Apparently an attempt at an insult, although I don't see the relevance to the issue of driveshafts.

    2 - You generalize inferior made products as "china crap". Do inferior products come from foreign countries? Some do. However, many inferior products are also produced right here in the US. Many reputable parts come from foreign countries, as well as the US. To make a blanket statement that you should tell a shop "no china", is a racist remark. No matter how you try to justify it, it is. If you were to actually state a specific brand or manufacturer, and advise against using their product, that would be different. You, however, do not.

    3 - I did manage to find a thread related to a few individuals having issues with the yokes. And you state the issue was not installation related - yet you base that off of yet another person's remarks. I also noted the reaction your comments had there. Enough said.

    4 - Have you ever used a PST driveshaft on your vehicle and had an issue? 3 members here gave their recommendation based on actual first hand experience.

    You gave your opinion. We gave ours. Other members will give theirs. I'm sure you would debate until you are blue in the face about it though. I will not. It's pointless to argue with someone who knows they are the only person in the world who has knowledge of a subject. They will always be right.

  5. #25
    Member Supershafts's Avatar
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    Guess the facts and proof of use of junk or china crap is too much for you to come up with any nonsense to continue, trying to dispute the pic you can't get past.
    However broken pieces you want to try and defend with argument of improper installation are if anything comical at best, actually extremely comical when and if you did see the issue you would full know the issue isn't instal but the treatment and metallurgy, but you go on with excuses as best you can

    If you have any proof of U.S. pieces being crap please share the names.... im sure after you do that i'll find the china company that makes it if i don't already know when i simply see it.

    As for china parts the company names would be irrelevant since 1 you don't know what you're looking at and 2 everyone using them makes claims of U.S. made which is probably why you would believe something as silly as you claim having seen U.S. companies making non quality products that break under non harsh conditions.



    An opinion is not a fact, a opinion is what you have, FACT is what i gave you. The only opinion here is you and your personal view.

    There is a huge difference between the two.

    . The parts are china junk FACT, the parts fail under stock power conditions, FACT. The parts are all different in machining quality and treatment, FACT.. That is no opinion.



    1. you are not in the driveline business as you would not be making this argument unless you wanted to look as bad as others have in the past.

    2. inferior products do come from china, i see it everyday, and the FACT is in the driveline industry of which you have no knowledge of how these shops are using china garbage many are.

    3. the issue if you have any intelligence at all you wouldn't have even put this as #3 since you could have seen the issue was clearly not a instal problem... but then i revert you back to # 1

    4. I have no need to use anyone else s stuff i make my own from non china parts, however i have had them in my hands to fix and i did get some stuff accidentally sent to me destined for them and it was all china junk


    I am the only person telling the truth and not afraid to say it out loud, and yes apparently when someone is giving you information and is right only a closed minded ignorant person would resort to making fool statements of "It's pointless to argue with someone who knows they are the only person in the world who has knowledge of a subject. They will always be right"

  6. #26
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    I think we can agree to disagree. 'Nuff said.

  7. #27
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    Maybe you need new vendors then? Our company uses China for several parts and we are the largest transportation company in the world. We are a 3.4 billion dollar corporation. Our parts go on freight cars, which is a similar environment as vehicles and much more severe when it comes to actual stress and strain.

    We have draft gears made from China parts that have to absorb impact loads of 1.25 million pounds. These gears go in service for 20+ years in some cases before they need reconditioning.

    I am in engineering, so yes, I SEE CHINA PARTS DAILY. I also see USA PARTS DAILY.

    So, your statements that China is junk is a bit ridiculous. Maybe if you had some quality processes in place and people who know about castings, forgings, metallurgy, and their processing that actually worked with whoever it is making the parts you wouldn't see the junk you are. Of course, you're a small shop so it's probably difficult to do that.

    I see just as many bad pieces from the states as I do China. That is fact.

    You are a small business and deal with one specific territory so you probably only see 1/100th of the different parts I do.

    You don't have to be in a driveline industry to know and have a basic understanding of the things I've mentioned. Same goes with machining processes and GD&T tolerancing. It's all relatively simple.

    If parts are made bad (states or off-shore), our quality department rejects the parts. We have quality personnel in China, Aus, South America, Canada, and on-site at all locations here in the states. If they feel the parts are good metallurgically and a dimension may be off (not to spec), I review them and determine if a deviation can be issued during the 6 piece first samples of the FAI.

    If it's a new vendor, the parts get tested.

    ZERO bad parts get through to production. That is just called being a world-class company.

    You've found a handful of DS's that have failed out of how many made? 10's of thousands or more? Just asking. How many total PST drive shafts have been sold world wide? How many total failed? Please provide that info to me so we can see the failure % rate.

    I don't know of one single large manufacturing company in the world who has a ZERO failure rate. Do you? If so, please provide that information to me as well. I'd like to incorporate their processes.
    Knight likes this.

  8. #28
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    I'd get a Strange chromemoly drive shaft from Spohn.
    Last edited by INMY01TA; 05-14-2012 at 05:07 PM.

  9. #29
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    ^^ that's what I have. No problems here.

  10. #30
    Member Supershafts's Avatar
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    I have zero failures, but i use parts that are from companies that are doing there own r/d and have specific practices in place. Do i see a part here and there missing a piece or 2, maybe once a year, but questionable machining and part failures from poor machining and or treatments. . .not in 35 years

    Now the company you work for is purposely having parts made there, and as you stated they have a employee standing there rejecting parts as they come off wrong... As you stated they are making the parts the way you want, so that is quite different then whats going on here in our indusrty.

    Now here is what is happening in our industry, and this is EXACTLY whats going on, scum are taking parts from companies here and some companies from ger, aus, gb and then those people send them to scum china factories that REVERSE engineer those parts, which is stealing ( don't tell me you haven't known this or heard of all the stealing and exact copies these companies are making) and then they aren't done correctly....

    So you are telling me that in my shop when i see china come thru and the part is wrong, or the part is broken that im the lucky shop to see that one 1/100 bad part....
    Im not seeing that the parts in total are just junk, ok listen not that i want to get blatantly harsh here but in 35 years the bs you are defending has NEVER, NEVER EVER happened until china got involved with people here sending 3 parts over for them to cut up and reverse engineer.

    Since this bs has started so they can buy parts @ $2 and cut out the company spending all the time doing the r/d and those parts costing more has this bs started.
    Until the last 5/6 years i have only seen other shops shafts for rebalancing or service, when one of my suppliers 1st got his greedy hands on the stuff and then immediately i seen a problem that a few of my guys didn't, and we used china unknowingly at the time for a few jobs .. I do not even deal with that supplier simply because of that.
    So for 1 shop to see joints, weld yokes, slip yokes, hanger bearing, h-yokes, gears, crank shafts, bearings have so much indifference I THINK and guarantee im not the LUCKY sob getting that 1/1000 part. But im the only one having the balls to speak out on it.

    Now how many of other shops failed china have i seen? hundreds and hundreds of bs issues and then customers that just keep getting the same crap back again, now lets just say that ON this style car, just this 1 style car i have seen over 16 issues involving china in my area from other shops selling them china, not including the many members on the other forum who all spoke out after i came forward explaining the problem.

    Now i find it funny that since you do not know the situation here in our industry that you DEFEND thieves, you think or feel its ok for shops to send a few pieces of each part they want made by other companies to china is a good thing ? Do you think edelbrock enjoys spending hundreds of hours developing something to have some prick have it copied ? You think gear companies here enjoy losing in court that there products are being copied , do you think ARB enjoyed the BS press and rep they got from china copying it and right down to the packaging ? and still losing in court, how about the entire cars being copied
    do you think any of that is right and on any moral level at all you or anyone shouldn't buy it?

    What is going on in my industry is EXTREMELY different then your industry.


    .

  11. #31
    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    I run a PST carbon fiber driveshaft. Very strong and light. Never had an issue with it.
    I checked out the carbon fiber unit and it sounds great until you see the 1,200.00 price tag. Too rich for my blood.
    My ride is a 2002 Camaro SS SLP #3296 with 30k, LTH, 3" Y, CME, Frost tune, K&N, ported TB, Blackwing lid, Bellows, MSD, Denso Iridium, and 85mm MAF, Bilsteins, Eibach springs, SLP strut brace, Adj. Panhard, TA Girdle, UMI, Pro 5.0, Nitto NT555
    My wife has a 2004 GTO with the rare SAP, 18" wheels, K&N Cold Air System, MSD, Ported TB, Frost tune, Denso Iridium, Flowmaster cat-back, 3200 Yank, 75k

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    I think we can agree to disagree. 'Nuff said.
    I believe this was a subtle warning to get back on track. Any more shenanigans and rest assured it will be accompanied with a first class ticket to a nice vacation. Plus you'll win an all expenses paid trip out of this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supershafts View Post
    I am the only person telling the truth and not afraid to say it out loud, and yes apparently when someone is giving you information and is right only a closed minded ignorant person would resort to making fool statements of "It's pointless to argue with someone who knows they are the only person in the world who has knowledge of a subject. They will always be right"
    Yeah... We get that you think you're awesome. No need to sink to calling members ignorant nor little school girls. You've made your point. Everyone has their own experiences despite so called facts. There are always exceptions.

  14. #34
    She Moderator KahanaReef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by konigandy6 View Post
    I believe this was a subtle warning to get back on track. Any more shenanigans and rest assured it will be accompanied with a first class ticket to a nice vacation. Plus you'll win an all expenses paid trip out of this thread.
    If that wasn't... this is.

  15. #35
    None Shall Pass Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2002ssslp View Post
    I checked out the carbon fiber unit and it sounds great until you see the 1,200.00 price tag. Too rich for my blood.
    I didn't pay that much for mine, although it was a while ago. Depending on the application, it can be the best way to go. The weight to strength capability ratio sold me on it, as I'm not sure how far I'll take the car in the future. I may end up going the strictly drag strip route, so I'll be pretty set. Aluminum is a good choice too though.

  16. #36
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    I've always used a local driveshaft shop. Not because of issues mentioned here, but because I just prefer to spend my money local and put my hands on the part before I pay. I'm not a real big fan of mail order stuff on anything if I can help it.

    With that said, the local driveshaft shop here has built a couple for me,,,,and even fixed a brand new shaft from Inline Empire (it was junk out of the box) Out of balance and slightly bent,,,but that's another discussion.

    He builds what ever I need, aluminum or steel or chrome molly, and is around the $300 price range, stout stuff with Spicer 1350 joints complete. Does it in a couple days and I can see and touch the work before I lay out my money, it's just convenient for me. Builds for all the roundy round sprint car guys here and has a good reputation.

    I'd shop around and check all the suggestions people posted here....

  17. #37
    Member Supershafts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    and even fixed a brand new shaft from Inline Empire (it was junk out of the box) Out of balance and slightly bent,,,but that's another discussion.
    The other problem is the shipping, many people have a hard time understanding that shafts do not like being dropped and thrown around, and a simple drop or fall can knock the balance off (forget being thrown). They compare the shaft being launched hard at the track and figure that it can be dropped and thrown around and be able to deal with it, which is most likely what happened with that shaft and why i also recommend not getting involved with shipping, just yesterday opened a box, cracked crank...

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supershafts View Post
    The other problem is the shipping, many people have a hard time understanding that shafts do not like being dropped and thrown around, and a simple drop or fall can knock the balance off (forget being thrown). They compare the shaft being launched hard at the track and figure that it can be dropped and thrown around and be able to deal with it, which is most likely what happened with that shaft and why i also recommend not getting involved with shipping, just yesterday opened a box, cracked crank...
    This was all part of a retro fit TKO600 swap that was made to fit a 61 vette.. It was all boxed very well and I didn't see any sign of damage. What had happened was while installing the kit the driveshaft was about 1" too long. That was Inline Empires fault. Rather than deal with shipping back and forth, I ran it up to the local driveshaft shop to have it shortened and rebalanced.

    Picked it up and he said it was a good thing I brought it in,,,,it was bent (couldn't see it with the naked eye). Shaft didn't even have a mark on it. He told me there was no way they could have balanced that properly, but it had weights welded on it,,,go figure. He managed to straighten it, shorten it, and balance it, and had to weld a new end on it. Got out of there for $90. It's been fine ever since.

  19. #39
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    I was in awe when I saw how such little amount of heat could throw a driveshaft out of balance as well. Had a local driveline shop show me in their shop when he was measuring the run-out on the one he was custom making for me.

  20. #40
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    After reading these two pages i decided to look for more info on this "china part" claim and what i found was Supershafts bashing these same claims MWC and Brute Speed two years ago...Any forum is to help people not push away or towards any direction..... i dont care how big or small a company is. the only reviews you are ever going to hear are going to be the bad ones no matter if there were 100,000 shafts shold you are only going to hear 100 good reviews and 1,000 bad but thats 98,900 shafts that havent been reviewed? Its the OP's car or My car or Jon's car or Walt's its his/her/my choice in the end

    But this thread is helping me on my research i do for when i purchase my shaft... ill more than likely get a FAB9 From MWC and use what ever he recommends!

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