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4.10's Too Short...

This is a discussion on 4.10's Too Short... within the Drivetrain forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Knight This is more of a traction issuse - get the traction and you will see better ...

  1. #21
    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    This is more of a traction issuse - get the traction and you will see better performance because you'll be putting the power towards accelerating and not spinning tires. You also will accelerate faster - ie going through the torque band quicker = better performance. Never heard of going though the torque band too quickly with an ls1. They are known to have some of the best power curves of most engines.
    But no matter how much shorter the gears are, they don't change your horsepower. And its horsepower that makes the difference in performance. So whether you have 3.42's or 4.10's, when the car is in its powerband, its making the same crank HP regardless.

    This is why certain stock LS1 F-bodies have been known to hit as high as 12.9 @ 108MPH. If 3.42's hindered your acceleration as some claim, that would never have happened.

    Gears will affect all your gears to an extent - unless your second gear is numerically the same as first gear would be by factoring in the rear end ratio. Usually doesn't work out that way. Granted, depending on the gearing of the transmission , some of the gears will equal out at some point. It's all a numbers game. But also the idea is if you are changing gears, you are usually doing other mods to the car as well. Then gears will play into your build big time. And as for calling engineers idiots - well they did put a weak 7.5" 10 bolt in a car that can snap them like a twig stock. Just sayin...
    That wasn't the engineers...that was the beancounters...who have hopefully since been fired

  2. #22
    None Shall Pass Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    But no matter how much shorter the gears are, they don't change your horsepower. And its horsepower that makes the difference in performance. So whether you have 3.42's or 4.10's, when the car is in its powerband, its making the same crank HP regardless.

    This is why certain stock LS1 F-bodies have been known to hit as high as 12.9 @ 108MPH. If 3.42's hindered your acceleration as some claim, that would never have happened.
    Not saying it changes your HP, but it can affect the performance of the car - even stock. I know of one individual who put 3.42s in his a4 and shaved 1 to 2 tenths off his time - the only mod he made to the car (he had 2.73s originally). Granted, every car is different and maybe his performed a little better with those gears than someone elses may have. I guess it comes down to the car itself and the mods or lack thereof. Could even be a guessing game on a stock car - all depending on where that exact motor likes to run.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    That wasn't the engineers...that was the beancounters...who have hopefully since been fired
    True! But you know some engineer had to sign off on it. And they're probably all fired now that Pontiac is RIP.
    It's not how fast you can go. It's how fast you can get there.

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    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5abivt View Post
    SO what you're really saying is.. I have SO much torque down low and I waste it all because of the short gears which 1. Blow the tires off in 1st and 2nd and 2. the rpms fly through the torque band so fast that the torque doesn't get a chance to work.
    I don't waste it.
    My car hooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    This is why certain stock LS1 F-bodies have been known to hit as high as 12.9 @ 108MPH. If 3.42's hindered your acceleration as some claim, that would never have happened.
    You can't be serious....

    With 4.10's it would be a LOWER ET. Plain and simple.

  4. #24
    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos View Post
    I don't waste it.
    My car hooks.


    You can't be serious....

    With 4.10's it would be a LOWER ET. Plain and simple.
    So you're saying in that exact situation, with that exact car, if you swapped the rear gear and ran it again you guarantee it would run a lower time?? There are too many other factors to consider. Not to mention if you took 3rd gear right to the rev limiter, you'd be at 107MPH, which means a shift to 4th wouldn't even be needed.

    Shorter gears will provide better acceleration under certain circumstances. In your situation its a given, you have a cam and slicks. Obviously you can use the shorter gears to your advantage. But on bolt on cars with street tires, I'm starting to doubt that they really offer any advantage.

  5. #25
    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    Not saying it changes your HP, but it can affect the performance of the car - even stock. I know of one individual who put 3.42s in his a4 and shaved 1 to 2 tenths off his time - the only mod he made to the car (he had 2.73s originally). Granted, every car is different and maybe his performed a little better with those gears than someone elses may have. I guess it comes down to the car itself and the mods or lack thereof. Could even be a guessing game on a stock car - all depending on where that exact motor likes to run.
    Sounds about right to me. With 2.73's and an automatic with a stock stall, the engine spends way too much time in the lower RPM's. The shorter gears allow it to get into the powerband much faster, which is beneficial to acceleration. In a situation like that, the benefits are a given.

    What I'm more skeptical of is the benefits in a car such as mine, which is a 6 speed with bolt ons on street tires. I just don't think they really help acceleration all that much, and if anything they can take away from your top end.

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    i noticed a HUGE jump in performance going from 3.42's to 4.11's when i put my 9" in. Couldn't be happier with my 4.11's here. oh and if you're complaining about shifting twice before you leave the intersection, why don't you just go from first to fourth? there is a reason our cars had that from the factory...

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    Yes.
    I am saying if I ran a car with 3.42's and then swapped them out and ran 4.10's that day, the geared car would have a better ET.
    Likely by at least 3-4 tenths.

  8. #28
    None Shall Pass Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    What I'm more skeptical of is the benefits in a car such as mine, which is a 6 speed with bolt ons on street tires. I just don't think they really help acceleration all that much, and if anything they can take away from your top end.
    I agree. All depends on the mods on the car. Same as any other mod - like puttting bigger injectors on a stock engine can be worse. My car with 4.10s is about the perfect setup for what I've built. Won't be for others. Guess it all comes down to each car and what you want it to do. Luckily they sell a lot of different gears!

  9. #29
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos View Post
    Yes.
    I am saying if I ran a car with 3.42's and then swapped them out and ran 4.10's that day, the geared car would have a better ET.
    Likely by at least 3-4 tenths.
    This is true. Luos is correct.

    I think what everyone else here doesn't understand is how to setup a car with optimum gearing for quarter mile times, if that's what you are after.

    Plain and simple,,,,3.42's are not steep enough for even a stockish LS1. These engines are not that torquey, as a matter of fact, are rather soft below 3,000 rpms in stock form with their 200cc intake runner heads and a small 346 ci.
    They make power up to 6,000 rpms. At the track, if shifting at 6,000 rpms, you only hit 4th gear at about the 1,000 ft mark and you are lucky to cross in 4th at a measly 4,500 rpms.

    That people, is not how to get optimum quarter mile times. To gear a car properly you need to be crossing the finish line above the rpm where peak HP is reached in your 1:1 gear, (or high gear) in the case of the 6 speed that would be 4th.

    With that said you should be crossing the finish line at least at 6,000 rpm in 4th gear for best quarter mile times.

    Of course we are talking naturally aspirated engines, which needs to be kept in mind.

    Where less numerical gear would be beneficial would be a power adder application, where loads of torque very low in the rpm band comes into play. In which case alot of gear is not needed.

    Generally speaking on naturally aspirated engines, less gear doesn't come into play for most engines unless you are building a very large stroker engine well over 450 cubes that makes alot of torque and doesn't spin that high. An LS1 is not one of those engines.
    I can give you examples of my own cars I race that are at both ends of the spectrum as far as gearing and engine size/power bands with alot of experimentation on my part.

    Some of you guys are a bit backwards on your thinking.

  10. #30
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.O.MWS6 View Post
    i noticed a HUGE jump in performance going from 3.42's to 4.11's when i put my 9" in. Couldn't be happier with my 4.11's here. oh and if you're complaining about shifting twice before you leave the intersection, why don't you just go from first to fourth? there is a reason our cars had that from the factory...
    Ya and that reason was for emissions purposes, not because people didn't want to shift often.

    You guys complaining about shifting should have bought an automatic,,,,just sayin'

  11. #31
    Member TRANS-DAD's Avatar
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    My car is not a DD so when I get in it I wanna shift the hell out of it!!!! It's a vert & their heavy so the 4.10's felt perfect after install!!!!....My tires are about an inch taller than stock, so that might help my roll out a little but all said, "I would never go back to a 3.42 in this car!!!!"


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    All of you putting 4.10s in stock torquey low rpm v-8s are basically calling all the engineers on the planet idiots.

    NO!!!!..I am not calling myself an idiot!!!!

  12. #32
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    im running 3.89 and love them for street raceing but iv been looking at a set of 4.56 or 4.30s as well... but with a set of 28s so its just like going to 4.10s

    the bigest gain form gears is the 60fts.. and what ur at going in to the trap

    if u spin in 1st then u mite as well have stock gears to keep speed up high

    o yea mine is a dd, and has a nine inch b4 i get any lip for 4.56s lol

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    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    Love my 4:10s here. 4:10s and my Mcleod clutch and the car leaves rubber on the road in 4th.

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    Love my 4:10s here. 4:10s and my Mcleod clutch and the car leaves rubber on the road in 4th.
    Of course it will...4th with 4.10's is like 3rd with 3.42's

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    Senior Member karpetcm's Avatar
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    If your car leaves rubber in 4th my cars clutch is worse then i thought. I need a new clutch and LS7 sounds good right about now.

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