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4:10's or 3:73's in an a4

This is a discussion on 4:10's or 3:73's in an a4 within the Drivetrain forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by SteveC The gear ratios you are quoting are generally used for 1/8 mile tracks, no one in ...

  1. #61
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
    The gear ratios you are quoting are generally used for 1/8 mile tracks, no one in their right minds would run these gears on the street.

    JMHO

    SteveC
    Nonsense, we ran quarter mile with these gears all the time back then, where have you been?

    I ran my DZ with 4.88's through the quarter for years, and drove it on the street too. Ran my nova with 4.56's the same way and drove it back and forth from Cinci to Pigeon Forge for the rod run back in the 80's all the time.
    No overdrive in any of them.

    It's the way it was done back then. What kind of gears do you think guys like Grumpy Jenkins, Dyno Don, Gas Rhonda were all running back in the 60's and 70's? People like Grumpy had BBC 427's with tunnel rams running 5.38's and the like.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH.WS6 View Post
    In the standing mile I'll whip all these cars... that's the beauty of picking the right gear. while your car will max out at 135mph... I'll be cruising at 180 by you. If I were to decide to mess with you while you were cruising down the interstate at a normal 70-80 mph, my car with the higher gear will pull harder.
    Put a gear in it and be somebody, was always the motto back then.

    Who cares about top speed anyway, and who in their right minds would go 180 mph, surely no place on the street to do it, and nobody races a mile unless you're at the salt flats.
    Lets keep it real. This is stop light wars at it's best and it's what started hotrodding in the 40's and 50's after the war.

    Like I said before, you youngins are from another generation with your overdrives and don't understand or just can't grasp the concept. Seems everyone is afraid to run sustained rpms for any length of time on the street.
    Just doesn't bother me, been doing it for more than 30 years.

  3. #63
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Here is something for you guys to ponder.

    Take the common 3.73 swap in an auto 4th gen. Remember the 4L60 has a first gear of 3.06.

    3.73 x 3.06 = 11.41 effective ratio. No wonder everyone raves about how the car launches with 3.73's. It starts out with 4.88 style acceleration, but then drops back to 3.73 style acceleration the rest of the way down track.

    Now take one of my combos. A 2.20 muncie (2.20 first gear) with 4.88's.

    4.88 x 2.20 = 10.73 effective ratio. Close but not quite as strong as the 4l60/3.73. Now you can begin to see whats going on.

    The 4L60 with a 3.73 should have a slight advantage out of the hole but after that is where the problems start.

    The 4L60 has a crappy 1.62 first gear, and the rpm drop is huge coming from a 3.06. Another problem is running your best quarter mile time requires a rear gear to cross the finish line just above your shift rpm in your 1:1 gear (in this case 3rd). Even a stock LS1 will spin 6,000 easily, and you would need to cross the finish line at or just above that for best times. The 3.73 won't do that for ya at stock or even moderate power levels.

    This is where the 4.88 and 2.20 muncie combo has the advantage. I have a second gear of 1.64, but coming from a 2.20 first gear it's not that much of a drop. And I carry that close ratio gear spread all the way down track,,,,
    2.20/1.64/1.28/1.00
    The 4.88 allows me to cross the finish line just above 7,000 rpm right about where I shift the car. So I'm getting the best of both.

    Bottom line, the 4L60 isn't the best transmission for all out quarter mile assults. You would be better off with a 400 turbo with a better gear spread of 2.48/1.48/1.00 and be able to run more gear to suit the cars needs.
    If you must have an overdrive, then the 4L80E would be a better choice, it still has the same gear spread as the old 400's.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 11-11-2010 at 01:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Here is something for you guys to ponder.

    Take the common 3.73 swap in an auto 4th gen. Remember the 4L60 has a first gear of 3.06.

    3.73 x 3.06 = 11.41 effective ratio. No wonder everyone raves about how the car launches with 3.73's.

    Now take one of my combos. A 2.20 muncie (2.20 first gear) with 4.88's.

    4.88 x 2.20 = 10.73 effective ratio. Close but not quite as strong as the 4l60/3.73. Now you can begin to see whats going on.

    The 4L60 with a 3.73 should have a slight advantage out of the hole but after that is where the problems start.

    The 4L60 has a crappy 1.62 first gear, and the rpm drop is huge coming from a 3.06. Another problem is running your best quarter mile time requires a rear gear to cross the finish line just above your shift rpm in your 1:1 gear (in this case 3rd). Even a stock LS1 will spin 6,000 easily, and you would need to cross the finish line at or just above that for best times. The 3.73 won't do that for ya at stock or even moderate power levels.

    This is where the 4.88 and 2.20 muncie combo has the advantage. I have a second gear of 1.64, but coming from a 2.20 first gear it's not that much of a drop. And I carry that close ratio gear spread all the way down track,,,,
    2.20/1.64/1.28/1.00
    The 4.88 allows me to cross the finish line just above 7,000 rpm right about where I shift the car. So I'm getting the best of both.

    Bottom line, the 4L60 isn't the best transmission for all out quarter mile assults. You would be better off with a 400 turbo with a better gear spread of 2.48/1.48/1.00 and be able to run more gear to suit the cars needs.
    If you must have an overdrive, then the 4L80E would be a better choice, it still has the same gear spread as the old 400's.
    thanks for the info man

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    Moderator Cutlass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Seems everyone is afraid to run sustained rpms for any length of time on the street.
    Wear and tear to a certain extent is figured into the equation for some of us. Noise is another reason.
    But I will say, your argument for the gears you choose does make sense. I think there is some room for both sides to be right.

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    Member AKA Speedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlass View Post
    Wear and tear to a certain extent is figured into the equation for some of us. Noise is another reason.
    But I will say, your argument for the gears you choose does make sense. I think there is some room for both sides to be right.
    you know I will second that. This all comes down to personal preference. he's right about the old cars. that's one reason why power feels different from back then in comparison to now. at the end of the day its all on what the owner is willing to settle for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianH.WS6 View Post
    you know I will second that. This all comes down to personal preference. he's right about the old cars. that's one reason why power feels different from back then in comparison to now. at the end of the day its all on what the owner is willing to settle for.
    yeah i think that im going to go with the 3:73's just because i dont want to mess with my highway driving

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    to Firebirdjones

    what engine was in the copo w/5.13s' and what engine was in the DZ w/4.88s' ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldmanZ28 View Post
    to Firebirdjones

    what engine was in the copo w/5.13s' and what engine was in the DZ w/4.88s' ?
    My buddies COPO has the original L72 427/425hp engine in it.

    My DZ has the original DZ motor, little 302.

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    Senior Member MrMasterCraft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    My buddies COPO has the original L72 427/425hp engine in it.

    My DZ has the original DZ motor, little 302.
    Dad sold his '69 with the the orginal 302 in it and Muncie 4 speed for a grand. Yes it ran... 10s with a blower. I hated that car. Always sat in the same spot, moved only 2 or 3 times a year when he went to the track, I was too young to understand. Looking back at it now, both he and I have since long regretted ever seeing it leave...


    On the note at hand, I'm settling for a 12 bolt with 4.30s, started my own thread since I didn't wanna threadjack. Guess we'll see how it all goes before and after the new combo. Should have it all together in a month. I'm thinking 4.10s for the big cams and track-only cars tho

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  11. #71
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    well personally i will be going in the 4.xx range with my a4 in the future...it isnt like i will be running at 4k on the expressway or anything to dramatic...i didn't buy my car for comfort or for mpg...i bought it for hot nasty sexy American speed so 4.xx gearing it is for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMasterCraft View Post
    Dad sold his '69 with the the orginal 302 in it and Muncie 4 speed for a grand. Yes it ran... 10s with a blower. I hated that car. Always sat in the same spot, moved only 2 or 3 times a year when he went to the track, I was too young to understand. Looking back at it now, both he and I have since long regretted ever seeing it leave...


    On the note at hand, I'm settling for a 12 bolt with 4.30s, started my own thread since I didn't wanna threadjack. Guess we'll see how it all goes before and after the new combo. Should have it all together in a month. I'm thinking 4.10s for the big cams and track-only cars tho
    yeah my only problem is that i drive on the highway alot so thats why i chose 3:73's but check out the link below that deezl ss posted it helped me out with my decision

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    what link ?

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    well personally i will be going in the 4.xx range with my a4 in the future...it isnt like i will be running at 4k on the expressway or anything to dramatic...i didn't buy my car for comfort or for mpg...i bought it for hot nasty sexy American speed so 4.xx gearing it is for me.
    You get a great big Attaboy from me!!!!!

    You are right, with the overdrive the 4.xx gears can easily be driven on the street or highways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deezl SS View Post
    To be honest, I haven't been able to do any WOT pulls with my car yet.....with my new setup, my trans is slipping really bad WOT in 3rd (hitting my 6700 rev limiter at 65 mph in third gear). Use this link to see what you are comfortable with: http://www.f-body.org/gears/
    this one lol

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    I've been referencing to that link for years now,it's what convinced me to put 4.56s' in my A4,no way I'm gonna go to those top speeds so I'd rather have vicious low end acceleration.

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    Junior Member 98 formula ws6's Avatar
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    Yes low is the way to go 1.68 60ft with a stock 98 ls1 134xxx with about only a 1500rpm take off s60 4.30s dont really go highway speeds but about 2800 rpm at 80 mph but thats just me

  18. #78
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98 formula ws6 View Post
    Yes low is the way to go 1.68 60ft with a stock 98 ls1 134xxx with about only a 1500rpm take off s60 4.30s dont really go highway speeds but about 2800 rpm at 80 mph but thats just me
    2800 @ 80 mph is more than acceptable. Thats speeding just about anywhere you go, even here in AZ where the limit is 75.
    You could tame the cruise rpm down quite a bit and still be within what I call an acceptable cruising speed (65-70ish), and still get decent mileage if you wanted.

    It's why I've always said, "when you have an overdrive, why contemplate the rear gear change?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    2800 @ 80 mph is more than acceptable. Thats speeding just about anywhere you go, even here in AZ where the limit is 75.
    You could tame the cruise rpm down quite a bit and still be within what I call an acceptable cruising speed (65-70ish), and still get decent mileage if you wanted.

    It's why I've always said, "when you have an overdrive, why contemplate the rear gear change?"
    what do you mean by contmeplate the rear gear change?

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by WICKEDLS1 View Post
    what do you mean by contmeplate the rear gear change?
    basically he is saying why make a huge deal out of it..debating about gas mileage and other shit instead of manning up

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