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Why are Stangs so much slower?

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  1. #141
    Member myk02k's Avatar
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  2. #142
    Junior Member Louie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by z_driver1
    I'm sorry that the real world runs and data loggers that show upwards of a 30hp increase once you are moving are insufficient for you and you say that I am the one missing the point. The fact is that I am not missing your point, your point is wrong and viable proof has been given to show you how it works.

    If you want to make a point do so with datalogging info or something concrete, not a link to an internet forum. If you can show me something that proves that ram air is ineffective then you have a point but you havn't so far. Proof has been given that it is extremely functional and your only rebuttal is "those guys don't agree"
    I thought you were done with this thread?

    Quit putting words in my mouth as I did not say that ram air does not work at all. I did say that it adds so little that the other slight variances from block to block which can make a non-ram air as fast or faster than a given ram air ls1. As for me needing proof that it doesn't make the ram airs all faster than the non ram airs, I gave you examples of cars that really do go faster on the dyno AND on the track. The door swings both ways, where is your proof that all of the ram air cars are faster?

  3. #143
    Junior Member MLS1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derk
    Actually ford was still using the 5-doh! in 94-95. The ohcs didn't come out in the mustang till 96. And talking about turds...holy crap, 96-98 GTs where sloooooow. The first semi-repectable ohc was the 98 Cobra.
    Actually the 96 cobra was the first semi-respectable dohc. To my knowledge theres no difference between 96-98 cobras. And in my opinion the 5.0 was one of the best motors ford ever built. I know a guy with 144k miles 5.0 that still sees a 150 shot. The only thing he's done internally is replace valve springs and seals and he runs deep 12's with that and boltons. Not to mention parts are cheap and they're easy to work on.

  4. #144
    Member mogs01gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLS1
    Actually the 96 cobra was the first semi-respectable dohc. To my knowledge theres no difference between 96-98 cobras. And in my opinion the 5.0 was one of the best motors ford ever built. I know a guy with 144k miles 5.0 that still sees a 150 shot. The only thing he's done internally is replace valve springs and seals and he runs deep 12's with that and boltons. Not to mention parts are cheap and they're easy to work on.
    well to say its the greatest engine Ford ever built is an over statement. They didnt make much HP stock, blocks cant handle anything over 550 and the cranks in them hate RPM. Now its easy to get 350-370rwhp out of them, like how much that car you are talking about has, but if you want anything more, it will cost you.

    The only thing that made them soo great in the 80s was the fact that the Fox-bodes were so light. They had a lot of low end torque that shot the car out of the hole. image if the 350s in the Irocs were in a lighter car. That sucker would haul. Im not a Fox body fan, the 80s camaros where a lot better in my opinion.
    324hp/333tq

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8machine
    zinc: You are a Cobra Owner... thats diffrent i think. I talk first from the Mustang GT's since the new one comes out. There (STOCK) are slow everywhere i find stats about them. 6.8sec 0-60 is slow for a stock 2000 Mustang GT. A Camaro Z28 goes in 5.6 or 5.4 ... don't remember the correct stats now.
    it was 5.2 on the Z's and SS's.

  6. #146
    KILLSWITCH ETERNAL
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    I love GM and have owned numerous F-bodies over the years. I have won some and lost some to Mustangs over those same years. I've never been a big fan of FOMOCO, but I bought an '02 Lightning a couple of weeks ago because GM doesn't have an SS truck in the same ballpark. My point is this: If a company builds an affordable performance vehicle that looks AND handles as well as it hauls ass, then I'm willing to remain open-minded. Hell, if Toyota built a 400 horse, rear wheel drive performance car, I'd give it a look. Let's all just drop the bantering, get back to the garage, and make our "insert make and model here" faster. That's the bottom line IMHO. Peace

  7. #147
    Member Fedge's Avatar
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    i know i hate to see a bunch of GM and Ford guys fight...

    blanket statements are kind of silly as well...

    my stock 01 GT never lost a race to a stock LT1

    my stock LT1s never lost any races to any stock 64-04 GTs, lol

    but, my 01 GT got stomped by numerous LS1s

    and I managed to hand a guy his ass in an 05 GT...

    my stock LT1 got creamed by my boy's bone stock 05 GT

    I wouldn't call Mustangs slow...I would just say LS1s are a little faster...well, a lot faster stock for stock and compared to a GT or NA Cobra...

    there are plenty of fast ass Stangs out there...so I don't sleep on any of them.

    now let's get together (I like all makes of American muscle) and kick some ricer ass lol

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILLSWITCH ETERNAL
    I love GM and have owned numerous F-bodies over the years. I have won some and lost some to Mustangs over those same years. I've never been a big fan of FOMOCO, but I bought an '02 Lightning a couple of weeks ago because GM doesn't have an SS truck in the same ballpark. My point is this: If a company builds an affordable performance vehicle that looks AND handles as well as it hauls ass, then I'm willing to remain open-minded. Hell, if Toyota built a 400 horse, rear wheel drive performance car, I'd give it a look. Let's all just drop the bantering, get back to the garage, and make our "insert make and model here" faster. That's the bottom line IMHO. Peace
    well stated....

  9. #149
    Big Tough
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    Haven't posted in a long long time. In fact, I had to open a new USERNAME to post now. Here's my take.

    03 Cobra > Cambirds (all styles, don't be fooled by Z28, Trans AM, SS or WS6 trim, it's BS as far as HP goes) > MACH 1's > 99 + 01 Cobras >= GTO's > Charger > 05 GT's > 99 to 2004 GT's > > > > 96 to 98 GT's.

    I've been in these conversation tons of times and this is the consensus. A bolt on LS1 can run with, and even outrun as I've done it, a stock 03 Cobra. Start modding the 03 Cobra, just a little, and it's a different race. Folks love to exaggerate when it comes to cars, don't listen. Also, all of the HP number posted in the begining/middle of this thread are BS. They are factory ratings which in GM's case are fictional. Every LS1, regardless of trim is = to the LS1 C5 Corvette of the same year in terms of HP. My 01 Z28 Dynoed at 320 RWHP bone stock, that's a far cry from the 310 HP at the flywheel that the factory gave it. Unfortunatley that car is gone. The 99 - 01 Cobras rated at 320 flywheel were lucky to hit high 290's to the rear wheels.

    I am by no means a Ford hater, GM lover or vice versa. I had a 98 GT, an 01 Z28 and now have an 04 F150 and an 05 Trailblazer. I look at the type of vehicle I want and choose the one I like best. No brand loyalty, well maybe towards american cars but that's negoitable.
    Last edited by Big Tough; 02-18-2006 at 03:07 PM.

  10. #150
    your parts guy!!! 1fastcamarosss11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fastcamarosss11
    we all love cars and to work on them to make them faster. no matter the car. lets all be friends.
    very good then

  11. #151
    Junior Member LS1 Junkie's Avatar
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    It's simple, Ford had to go FI to run down an LS1 and they did it AFTER the last year of the Fbodies. In the end their are two things about Mustangs that will never change. First NA 4.6 vs. NA LS1 the Ford may as well not show up; and second MUSTANGS ARE CHICK CARS, ALWAYS HAVE BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE!!!

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by LS1 Junkie
    It's simple, Ford had to go FI to run down an LS1 and they did it AFTER the last year of the Fbodies. In the end their are two things about Mustangs that will never change. First NA 4.6 vs. NA LS1 the Ford may as well not show up; and second MUSTANGS ARE CHICK CARS, ALWAYS HAVE BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE!!!
    spoken like a true idiot...
    Last edited by cartert75; 02-19-2006 at 03:58 PM.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by cartert75
    spoken like a true idiot...
    +1

  14. #154
    Evr sena bdgr killa snak? Roastem's Avatar
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    Damn, what a long thread. Takes a lunch break to finish it! I had an 01 Cobra for two years, and I was never outrun (funny, a 98 Cobra was the only one that should have won, it was hooked up though). I tried to get a couple LS1's to bite, one did. I think he had his girlfriend with him, and he didn't want to go through a yellow light to continue the race, too bad it wasn't on the highway. I think he had a cam in that thing, cause at the next light I could hear it counting off. The first night I had my Z28, I got outrun two out of 3 times by a sweet, light blue LX foxbody with 00 Cobra R's on it. That was before the cam, springs, retainers, LS6 intake, 295/35's, and P&P TB. The Mustang wasn't faster, or had more power, but I got took out, and it was embarrassing. I had the 245/45/16's z-rated goodyears, or I should say greaseyears. The gotdamn thing could not find traction out of the whole to save its life! Feather it? Feather it hell, it just kept spinning in first and second, and he would put 2 car lengths before I even got to third, and the road we were racing on might have been an eighth mile, total, so by the time I was in fourth the race was over, and the Mustang's whole shot was the difference. SIMPLE: He hooked, I didn't, GAME OVER.

    Since then, I added some 295/35/18 Toyo T1R's that hook like mad, and I prolly added 50 or 60 whp with the latest mods. The key, I think, is the addition of 1000 more rpm before the rev limiter. That allows me to stay in gear longer, which is a must for time-consuming shifts with 4.10's on an M6.

    Anyway, the 01 Cobra was awful fast. In 3rd and 4th, it was absolutely wicked with stock gears and a 7000 rpm redline. I added the 3.73's, but it seemed like it lost velocity, with a small trade in acceleration. Should have put the 4.10's in it, then it would pull hard in fifth.

    Before the cam and intake upgrades, I would have said they were dead even, maybe the Cobra would have gotten the Z on top end. Now, the Z would win hands down. More power, and equal redline. I am asked which one I liked better all the time. I like them both a lot, but now after the cam/intake upgrade, I gotta say that Z is more fun. That torque is "fantabulous," and I like that old school thump with the cam. Who knows, if I would have spent 1500 bucks for 4V cams, and put 4.10 gears in the Cobra, I might have voted for the Cobra. I can't call a clear winner fellas, and I had both. One thing bothers me though, I had the Cobra for 2 years and never suffered defeat, and I had the Z28 for 24 hrs and got busted.
    Heads 'n Cammed, Moser 12, 3.73's, Weight Reduction, 13" Brembo Kit
    BMR track suspension, full exhaust, the works...
    412whp/394wtq 1/4 mile slip coming soon!
    Gone: '01 Laser Red Cobra 3.73's/Full Bolt-ons

  15. #155
    Big Tough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roastem
    Damn, what a long thread. Takes a lunch break to finish it! I had an 01 Cobra for two years, and I was never outrun (funny, a 98 Cobra was the only one that should have won, it was hooked up though). I tried to get a couple LS1's to bite, one did. I think he had his girlfriend with him, and he didn't want to go through a yellow light to continue the race, too bad it wasn't on the highway. I think he had a cam in that thing, cause at the next light I could hear it counting off. The first night I had my Z28, I got outrun two out of 3 times by a sweet, light blue LX foxbody with 00 Cobra R's on it. That was before the cam, springs, retainers, LS6 intake, 295/35's, and P&P TB. The Mustang wasn't faster, or had more power, but I got took out, and it was embarrassing. I had the 245/45/16's z-rated goodyears, or I should say greaseyears. The gotdamn thing could not find traction out of the whole to save its life! Feather it? Feather it hell, it just kept spinning in first and second, and he would put 2 car lengths before I even got to third, and the road we were racing on might have been an eighth mile, total, so by the time I was in fourth the race was over, and the Mustang's whole shot was the difference. SIMPLE: He hooked, I didn't, GAME OVER.

    Since then, I added some 295/35/18 Toyo T1R's that hook like mad, and I prolly added 50 or 60 whp with the latest mods. The key, I think, is the addition of 1000 more rpm before the rev limiter. That allows me to stay in gear longer, which is a must for time-consuming shifts with 4.10's on an M6.

    Anyway, the 01 Cobra was awful fast. In 3rd and 4th, it was absolutely wicked with stock gears and a 7000 rpm redline. I added the 3.73's, but it seemed like it lost velocity, with a small trade in acceleration. Should have put the 4.10's in it, then it would pull hard in fifth.

    Before the cam and intake upgrades, I would have said they were dead even, maybe the Cobra would have gotten the Z on top end. Now, the Z would win hands down. More power, and equal redline. I am asked which one I liked better all the time. I like them both a lot, but now after the cam/intake upgrade, I gotta say that Z is more fun. That torque is "fantabulous," and I like that old school thump with the cam. Who knows, if I would have spent 1500 bucks for 4V cams, and put 4.10 gears in the Cobra, I might have voted for the Cobra. I can't call a clear winner fellas, and I had both. One thing bothers me though, I had the Cobra for 2 years and never suffered defeat, and I had the Z28 for 24 hrs and got busted.
    Well if it makes you feel better I slapped around an 01 Cobra with my old bolt on 01 Z28 from a 50 mile an hour roll. I wouldn't feel too bad about losing a race to a fox body Mustang. Those things are often either 15 second sleds or 9 second wonders.

  16. #156
    Evr sena bdgr killa snak? Roastem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derk
    And I have to agree with you on the being just as fast part. But also a 99 Cobra wasn't much faster than a GT(a tenth or two diffrence) due to the all new IRS mostly.

    There was actually an internet article back in the day comparing a 00 GT, a 00 T/A, and a 00 SS.

    Besides GM was trying to save every penny they could. They didn't want to spend the extra money making major diffrences between the two. The only person that loses in that one are non-Fbody drivers.
    In third and fourth gear my 01 Cobra would absolutely smoke any GT, and year model, I ever raced. I raced about 20, ranging from foxes to new GT's. First and second was usually close, but after that it got ugly. Maybe through the 1/8th, and maybe 1/4 it was close, but after that the Cobra would pull away convincingly.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roastem
    In third and fourth gear my 01 Cobra would absolutely smoke any GT, and year model, I ever raced. I raced about 20, ranging from foxes to new GT's. First and second was usually close, but after that it got ugly. Maybe through the 1/8th, and maybe 1/4 it was close, but after that the Cobra would pull away convincingly.

    I agree totally. 1st and 2nd where fairly close with the cobra starting to pull late in 2nd. But in the 1/8 mile there would only be more so a drivers race with a small edge going to the cobra. But in a 1/4 the Cobra would have to have a sad sad driver to get beat by an above average GT driver.

    And who races past 1/4 anyway???

  18. #158
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    Oh boy..... Dude, head straight to the barber, have mullet removed and get a grip on life. Narrow minded sheep pumping bastard.
    03 Cobra with a couple bolt ons and a solid axle

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8machine
    Hey guys

    I wanna know: Why are the 96-03 Mustang GT's so much slower than the Camaro Z28!
    Whats with the Cobras? Are they as fasta as a Camaro SS?
    What is with the newest Stang?

    What's the reason? OK, the have 1.1Liter less than our LS1 or LT1 Camaros! But is that all?
    I have no idea why my car is so damn slow. I'll have to work on that
    '98 Blown Rustang (Novi2000 Powered)
    2005 Season: 11.2@128mph
    2006 Season: ??
    2007 Season? LOL...

  20. #160
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