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Why are Stangs so much slower?

This is a discussion on Why are Stangs so much slower? within the Domestics and Foreigns forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; P.S. I'm not trying to be a dick, just making points for my side of the discussion, sorry if it ...

  1. #121
    SUPREME member-oderator oneBADDz's Avatar
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    P.S. I'm not trying to be a dick, just making points for my side of the discussion, sorry if it comes off being a jerk it isn't intended that way

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by z_driver1
    P.S. I'm not trying to be a dick, just making points for my side of the discussion, sorry if it comes off being a jerk it isn't intended that way

    Question? What would you consider a Bullitt competition to? There where jsut a little bit better than a GT but not up to par with a Cobra.

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    SUPREME member-oderator oneBADDz's Avatar
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    Just a special edition, still the Z28 is the basis of comparison on all levels I would say (or T/A I just think of Z28s first, biased I guess lol)

  4. #124
    Member mogs01gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louie
    For the mustangs of similar years, this is not the case. The GT's had a single overhead cam and ran mid 14's. The Cobras had a double overhead cam and ran mid 13's. 1 second, is a HUGE difference.

    Do you see the difference?
    mid 14s,yeah in 1998. Cobras run mid 12s. Other C's are a mid 13 second cars.
    324hp/333tq

  5. #125
    lee1rbc
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    What about the 1sc stripper Camaro. This was a LS1 Z28 M6 (NO) T-tops, r-def, pwr seats, pwr windws, pwr lcks, traction contrl. I think they sold for around 18k and ran 12.8s bone stock.

  6. #126
    Junior Member Louie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogs01gt
    mid 14s,yeah in 1998. Cobras run mid 12s. Other C's are a mid 13 second cars.
    The Cobras that came out durring the same years as LS1's did NOT run mid 12's.
    Last edited by Louie; 02-01-2006 at 08:04 PM.

  7. #127
    Junior Member Louie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by z_driver1
    #1 SS and WS6 are more likely to have different gears in an automatic #2 Dynos don't take advantage of ram air hoods #3 SS and WS6 generally come with different exhaust than Z28 and T/A. They aren't advertised as having higher HP for no reason. #4 Suspension makes for an edge over a Z28 or T/A it is a very valid point for why they would be slightly faster. Ram air, diff suspension, diff exhaust, and possibly different gears doesn't give them an edge?
    Also, your opinion doesn't change the fact that Z28s are rival to GTs. It isn't our fault a Z28 will stomp a hole in a GTs ass, it is still our rival and we will still compare them. Just because the LS1 is faster than a plain GT we aren't supposed to compare it? I don't understand your point
    Ram Air is a nifty idea, but it does not actually ram air into the engine. They aren't advertised as having higher HP for no reason, is correct. They are advertised that way so that the more expensive car looks more powerful when it is no more powerful. Why were F-body's underrated? Because they had the same engine as the much more expensive Vettes. You think that the "adventages" you think SS' and WS6's make them faster than Z28's and T/A's, go tell that to the numerous Z28 and T/A stockers on LS1tech that run faster than numerous WS6's and SS'.

    The Z28 is the GT's rival...alright, I can agree with you there. It may have looked like I was arguing that, but I'm not, that is my fault. What I am arguing is how people compare Z28's to GT's and SS' to Cobras, as if there is a speed difference between Z28's and SS'.

  8. #128
    SUPREME member-oderator oneBADDz's Avatar
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    Ram air doesn't function? Now we're just getting rediculous. They are advertised as having higher HP because they do. Suspension get you off the line quicker too. How can you say all of the parts that they throw at SSs and WS6s don't do anything?
    They are advertised that way so that the more expensive car looks more powerful when it is no more powerful.
    You are the only f-body conspirisist I have ever heard of. There are significant differences in the Z28 and SS as well and the T/A and WS6, stop lying to yourself and trying to convince us of some REDICULOUS crap

  9. #129
    lee1rbc
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    This is a link to a guy who did a ram air test on a LT1 WS6. Now remember an LS1 WS6 has a more direct ram air flow design then the LT1. Using a scan tool to record MAF he showed that ram air gives apprx 10hp at 50mph and as much as 30hp at 80mph. On an LT1! Its the poorman boost.
    http://www.ws6.com/ramtest.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by lee1rbc
    This is a link to a guy who did a ram air test on a LT1 WS6. Now remember an LS1 WS6 has a more direct ram air flow design then the LT1. Using a scan tool to record MAF he showed that ram air gives apprx 10hp at 50mph and as much as 30hp at 80mph. On an LT1! Its the poorman boost.
    http://www.ws6.com/ramtest.htm


    To bad the Machs ram air come sin all crooked

  11. #131
    Member mogs01gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louie
    The Cobras that came out durring the same years as LS1's did NOT run mid 12's.
    That is why I said other cobras.

  12. #132
    Junior Member Louie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by z_driver1
    Ram air doesn't function? Now we're just getting rediculous. They are advertised as having higher HP because they do. Suspension get you off the line quicker too. How can you say all of the parts that they throw at SSs and WS6s don't do anything?
    You are the only f-body conspirisist I have ever heard of. There are significant differences in the Z28 and SS as well and the T/A and WS6, stop lying to yourself and trying to convince us of some REDICULOUS crap
    Quit lying to yourself that they are much more than appearance packages.

    An LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1.

    Some people have said that the ram air can help extremely marginally. That does NOT mean that all WS6's and SS's will dyno higher than TA's and Z28's. They are all over the board.

    Here's a bunch of examples of stockers that dynoed higher than usual. They are NOT all SS's and WS6's by any means. Not to mention there are some AUTO Z28's dynoing higher than M6 SS's.

    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444690

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louie
    Quit lying to yourself that they are much more than appearance packages.

    An LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1.

    Some people have said that the ram air can help extremely marginally. That does NOT mean that all WS6's and SS's will dyno higher than TA's and Z28's. They are all over the board.

    Here's a bunch of examples of stockers that dynoed higher than usual. They are NOT all SS's and WS6's by any means. Not to mention there are some AUTO Z28's dynoing higher than M6 SS's.

    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444690
    I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you are totally ignorant to the facts. Suspension gets you quicker times and they have stiffer suspension, that is undeniable. More air makes more power and they make more power with a ram-air hood how can you argue a fundamental fact? "an LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1"? That's the most unintellectual statement you could make. And how many times do you have to be explained to the ram air will not make more HP on a dyno? A dyno is sitting still do you not understand the most basic of physics or even how ram air works? RAM AIR AND SUSPENSION WILL NOT SHOW GAINS ON A DYNO, A DYNO IS NOT A VALID POINT. Read lee's post up there where they measured the effects of ram air ON A ROLL, who'd have thought that's how it works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by z_driver1
    I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you are totally ignorant to the facts. Suspension gets you quicker times and they have stiffer suspension, that is undeniable. More air makes more power and they make more power with a ram-air hood how can you argue a fundamental fact? "an LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1"? That's the most unintellectual statement you could make. And how many times do you have to be explained to the ram air will not make more HP on a dyno? A dyno is sitting still do you not understand the most basic of physics or even how ram air works? RAM AIR AND SUSPENSION WILL NOT SHOW GAINS ON A DYNO, A DYNO IS NOT A VALID POINT. Read lee's post up there where they measured the effects of ram air ON A ROLL, who'd have thought that's how it works.

    I thought stiffer suspension would equal less ability to squat? Which would inturn not offer as good as traction as a car with soft suspension?

  15. #135
    lee1rbc
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    The springs don't determine squat, Instant Center (IC) is what effects squat.That can be adjusted by changing the mounting points of the control arms. Stiffer springs help make a quiker launch and help transfer vehicle weight properly. If the front susp. is soft, it will take less power to pull the front end up, causing bounce. And if the rear suspension is too soft, it wont push the power to the ground. Just picture Yourself doing pushups on a board that has two coil springs under it. If the coil spring are rated at 5lbs each it will very hard to do pushups (springy). Now picture two springs at 150lbs. Also remember SS and WS6 came with 275-40s that helps the most. WS6 cars have a very impressive launch for a stock car.

  16. #136
    Junior Member Louie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derk
    I thought stiffer suspension would equal less ability to squat? Which would inturn not offer as good as traction as a car with soft suspension?
    This is correct, a softer suspension allows better weight transfer for quicker launches. This reinforces my point mr z-driver, not yours.

    And Z-driver, you need to read the link I posted. That is real world proof of the point I am making.

    And that "LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1" quote is not mine. I stole it from many of the long-time been around for awhile techies at LS1tech who have more knowledge in their thumb than you have inbetween your ears.
    Last edited by Louie; 02-03-2006 at 08:42 PM.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louie
    This is correct, a softer suspension allows better weight transfer for quicker launches. This reinforces my point mr z-driver, not yours.

    And Z-driver, you need to read the link I posted. That is real world proof of the point I am making.

    And that "LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1" quote is not mine. I stole it from many of the long-time been around for awhile techies at LS1tech who have more knowledge in their thumb than you have inbetween your ears.
    Don't quote someone that makes a claim with no information to back it up and think it makes you right. Why don't you read the post immediately before yours by lee. Softer suspension does NOT make for quicker launches it makes for inconsistent launches. I did read the link you posted and the fact that you keep referring to dyno results is asnine. For the last time, dyno results to not take suspension or ram-air into consideration which are the two major contributing factors to making SSs and WS6s quicker than Z28s and T/As. Why don't you read my explainations that make total sense rather than just combating me because you can't look at something from someone else's point of view. I am done here and will not be back to read your responses or anyone else's because you are closed minded and would rather not listen to what someone is trying to explain to you.

  18. #138
    Junior Member Louie's Avatar
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    Lee is incorrect and so are you.

    You want the front springs softer for better weight transfer when launching. This is common knowledge.

    You have once again (not surprisingly) missed the point that ram air makes such a little difference while other variances play a much larger role in the handbuilt engines.

    All of this is common knowledge that the long time techies at LS1Tech have taught me, but apparently you know more than they do.

  19. #139
    SUPREME member-oderator oneBADDz's Avatar
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    I'm sorry that the real world runs and data loggers that show upwards of a 30hp increase once you are moving are insufficient for you and you say that I am the one missing the point. The fact is that I am not missing your point, your point is wrong and viable proof has been given to show you how it works.

    If you want to make a point do so with datalogging info or something concrete, not a link to an internet forum. If you can show me something that proves that ram air is ineffective then you have a point but you havn't so far. Proof has been given that it is extremely functional and your only rebuttal is "those guys don't agree"

  20. #140
    lee1rbc
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    You want the front springs softer for better weight transfer when launching. This is common knowledge.
    If you did that wouldn't you nd a set of 70/30 or 90/10 shocks?

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