what exactly makes Mach 1 Mustanks faster?

**GottaHaveLS1** · 10-21-2007, 04:28 PM

I'm curious what makes the mach 1's more of a competition for the ls1. I haven't raced one before and i've heard they're pretty much dead even and it's a drivers race. What did Ford do to their crappy 4.6 to make it generate more HP and torque? I would assume its got a better valvetrain or cam or something...

**BlueBomber** · 10-21-2007, 04:35 PM

32 valve instead of the 24 valve found in the gt's 4.6?

**red99ws6** · 10-21-2007, 04:37 PM

yeah it is basically the same as a 99-01 cobra motor except it has i think 9:1 compression instead of 10:1 like the old corbra motor. not sure on the exact compression but it is a difference of one

**2000T/A Guru** · 10-21-2007, 04:40 PM

Its a cobra 4.6liter, with dual over cams, so 4 cams and 4 valves per cylinder. the GTs only have 2 per cylinder and 2 cams total. Also the comperssion ratie is 10 to 1 and the cobra 9 to 1. Also the have a better itnake which is good for a few more horsepower. GTs have 16 valves

**GottaHaveLS1** · 10-21-2007, 05:02 PM

how much more rwhp do they net over the GT's?

**02Ls1Formula** · 10-21-2007, 05:06 PM

i believe the gts have 240 rwhp and the mach 1 has 300ish?? could be wrong

**GottaHaveLS1** · 10-21-2007, 05:19 PM

geeze, thats a pretty intense gain. I thought pre-05 GT's had 265 hp stock (LOL

), so they've got to have less than 240rwhp. I thought the mach 1's had around 300 flywheel hp, which should be dwarfed compared to the ls1's 330-350 hp, right?

Imagine how sweet firehawks would be if GM upgraded the cam and valvetrain enough for a 60 hp gain. (they couldn't have any f body outrunning vettes tho) I guess it leaves us with more fun stuff to do

**NvyBluMtlc02WS6** · 10-21-2007, 10:29 PM

I haven't found one to be much of a challenge. I had the same dude try me one night three different times and i smoked him every time. Poor mushstank didn't stand a chance.

**Wesman** · 10-21-2007, 11:09 PM

Like the other guys said, basically the entire top end of the motor is different.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the 4.6. It just doesn't make that much power in 2V form because it can't breath very well and it isn't all that big of a motor.

So when Ford upgraded the heads and valvetrain to a DOHC/4V design, the motor gained a bunch of power, especially in the top end. The 2V's power tapers off before 6,000RPM, while the 4V pulls strong right to its 7,000RPM redline. The more air you can move the more power you can make, and the 4Valve heads move a lot more air.

Its the same principle Honda uses to get 200HP out of a 2.0L, the valvetrain flows a lot of air given the engine size, and it has a high redline to make the most of it. The 4V heads work on the same principle, just on a much larger scale, being a V8.

**predator** · 10-22-2007, 02:58 AM

if they had put 6 speeds in mach they would have been a contender...

and i want to say they are 320 horse...

-me

**Rikki_SeVeN** · 10-22-2007, 08:05 AM

My friend's Mach1... dynoed at 265whp 282wtq... bone stock... it's rated at 305hp at the crank... and 320tq... they are great cars that flow really well...

he did a Intake and X-pipe... and beat me past 100mph... (not my much)... I'm automatic...

Their fast... their Gearing has much to do with it too... 3.55 gears out back... and a very good 5 speed... the axles are a weak link though... they've been known to snap on stock power...

**2000T/A Guru** · 10-22-2007, 08:18 AM

Stock pre 05 Gts, make 260, which is around 190-200rwhp, the mach 1s make around 260-275rwhp and about 315-320 at the crank. The new GTs make 300hp at the crank and about 230-245rwhp. The mach is a good contender for the LS1, since when do you need a 6 speed to be fast, a 5 speed is just as fast. You just dont have the 6th gear for the gas mileage. Auto ls1s make around 285-300rwhp.

**predator** · 10-22-2007, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by 2000T/A Guru

Stock pre 05 Gts, make 260, which is around 190-200rwhp, the mach 1s make around 260-275rwhp and about 315-320 at the crank. The new GTs make 300hp at the crank and about 230-245rwhp. The mach is a good contender for the LS1, since when do you need a 6 speed to be fast, a 5 speed is just as fast. You just dont have the 6th gear for the gas mileage. Auto ls1s make around 285-300rwhp.

thats exactly the point... if you run a 6 speed you have more ability to make power through 4 or so gears... and still have 5 and 6 for hiway and interstate driving...

but i guess your right... its not like cobras, z's, ss, formys, trans am, rx8s, 350z's, vipers, ferraris, lambos, porsches, BMWs, srt 8 300's and chargers (though in auto form), srt-4s, miatas, skyes and solstices, and even ton trucks have gone to 6 speeds for any reason...

my buddy has a 99 cobra he put 3.90 gears in it and now 1-4 pull pretty hard and 5 is ok for the hiway, but if you put it on the interstate he is running like 3500 RPM. where as b4 when he was ok cruising on the interstate his car was a turd when you got up to around 3rd gear...

-me

**blackhawk01** · 10-22-2007, 08:41 AM

Imagine if they stuck an LT5 in the Fbodys

**2000T/A Guru** · 10-22-2007, 08:57 AM

Yes but i was just saying you can make the same power wit ha 5 speed as you can a 6 speed. You said if they have a 6 speed they would be a contender, but they are with the 5 speed and so it any car with power and a 5 speed. And naming all those cars that have 6 speeds is great, there are tons of fast cars with 5 speeds.

**predator** · 10-22-2007, 11:29 AM

name 3 modern ones that dont have a superior model with a 6 speed... no gt stangs... or boxters (non s version)...

thats like saying... "there are plenty of carberated fast car"... and there are, but once a better way came along they all changed to the BETTER WAY...

TBI worked for a while too... but hmmm not so much a contender now...

and as far as being a contender in 5 speed form.... i know machs are a bit faster than non charged cobras... but b4 my buddies gears i could put about 10 lengths on him from 0 -100... now that his first 4 gears are closer to my first four its more like 5 lenghts...

-me

**2000T/A Guru** · 10-22-2007, 11:44 AM

What did your car run in the 1/4mile that you can take low ot mid 13 second cars by 10. You have to running mid to high 12s, which i am aswell and i have taken atleast 5 mach 1s but 5 speeds can be fast, you dotn need to upgrade to a 6 speed to be fast my supra has a 5 speed from 1987, and it runs low 11s a slightly built and rebuilt 5 speed but still that tranny will be driveable on it when it runs 10s and still be great for racing.

**GottaHaveLS1** · 10-22-2007, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by 2000T/A Guru

Yes but i was just saying you can make the same power wit ha 5 speed as you can a 6 speed. You said if they have a 6 speed they would be a contender, but they are with the 5 speed and so it any car with power and a 5 speed. And naming all those cars that have 6 speeds is great, there are tons of fast cars with 5 speeds.

6 speeds have tighter gear ratios and go thru the gears/rpms faster.

**2000T/A Guru** · 10-22-2007, 11:51 AM

Well when i run my T/A wit h3.42s against the supra with 3.73s when the supra had 352rwhp and the T/A had 337rwhp they were dead even and the supra shifted a moment after me through all the gear, and we were dead even up to 115mph. The supra having slightly longer gears yes, but shift points in the race were almost the same, T/A reline 6100, the supra back then was just over 6300.

**predator** · 10-22-2007, 11:53 AM

wow thats great... then he put it in 6th and didnt get shit gasmileage...

oh and supras... forgot about that being a 6 speed in the uber supras...

and i have an frc vette... dont they run like high 12s?

-me