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Mustang gt's??

This is a discussion on Mustang gt's?? within the Domestics and Foreigns forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by Zinergy What happens when your friends mods his suspension? A sti with full coil overs, sway bars ...

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    What happens when your friends mods his suspension? A sti with full coil overs, sway bars and some minor brake upgrades would be untouchable to a f-body no matter how much you upgrade the suspension.

    Not anything is possible with this suspension. You give it too much credit imo.
    Get off your high horse and stop worshipping your precious Subarus.

    The STI is basically modded from the factory. The suspension is stiff as a board, its got little to no body roll, and the brakes are more than adequate. You aren't going to gain much more handling/braking capabilites on the street than what it already has. My car only has Bilstein shocks, SFC's, sway bars, and tubular trailing arms and panhard bar, and it made a huge difference. Not to mention my brakes make the STI's brakes look like something off of a Civic.

    The F-body SLA Strut front suspension is far superior to the STI's Macpherson struts, its just somewhat limited by the solid rear axle, which itself can still be improved with aftermarket upgrades.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Get off your high horse and stop worshipping your precious Subarus.

    The STI is basically modded from the factory. The suspension is stiff as a board, its got little to no body roll, and the brakes are more than adequate. You aren't going to gain much more handling/braking capabilites on the street than what it already has. My car only has Bilstein shocks, SFC's, sway bars, and tubular trailing arms and panhard bar, and it made a huge difference. Not to mention my brakes make the STI's brakes look like something off of a Civic.

    The F-body SLA Strut front suspension is far superior to the STI's Macpherson struts, its just somewhat limited by the solid rear axle, which itself can still be improved with aftermarket upgrades.
    Stis have a shorter wheel base aswell. Its just made to handle better.

    I have driven many stock STIs and 2 highly modded, they are worlds apart.

    Im not trying to argue with you, its just a waste of time.
    Last edited by Zinergy; 08-07-2009 at 10:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    Stis have a shorter wheel base aswell. Its just made to handle better.

    I have driven many stock STIs and 2 highly modded, they are worlds apart.

    Im not trying to argue with you, its just a waste of time.
    Your skewed views of the world do not represent actual facts, only your own ignorant bias towards Subarus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Your skewed views of the world do not represent actual facts, only your own ignorant bias towards Subarus.
    Please i love the lsx powered cars far more than subaru. Which is why i am selling my subaru(to my girlfriend) next spring and getting back into one. Im just not ignorant enough to believe that a f-body with modded suspension would even come close to a sti with modded suspension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    Please i love the lsx powered cars far more than subaru. Which is why i am selling my subaru(to my girlfriend) next spring and getting back into one. Im just not ignorant enough to believe that a f-body with modded suspension would even come close to a sti with modded suspension.
    Anything can be done when it comes to modding. There is nothing special about the Impreza platform that makes it handle particularly well, its just that its setup for handling from the factory with good components and chassis tuning.

    So once again, its all about who has more mods and a better setup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Anything can be done when it comes to modding. There is nothing special about the Impreza platform that makes it handle particularly well, its just that its setup for handling from the factory with good components and chassis tuning.

    So once again, its all about who has more mods and a better setup.
    You would have to swap over to IRS to have the modding ability of the STI and even then its naturally better because of shorter wheel base and the AWD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 98Hardtop View Post
    94-95 GT was the 302 5.0 which made 225 hp. They also had a slightly underrated Cobra which had different heads/intake and rated at 240hp. Many put down 220-230rwhp in stock form.
    96-98 GT which is what we call turds. They are the slowest 2V GT. The heads really suck as does the intake and cams. There really is no helping these motors unless you swap the top end out.
    99-04 GT commonly known as the PI motors which got better cams/heads and intake. Many 96-98 2V guys were swapping these parts to make up for the power. These motors can make some power, but will require some money.

    Also we have the B headed 4V cobra- 96-98 Cobras(heads flow great, but velocity sucks, good for FI applications, but really need a lot of port work for NA applications and 7500-8000 rpms). These guys also swap their intakes for a short runner intake which boosts hp, but you lose low end torque. A set of 4.30/4.56's changes that though These cars were rated 305/300.

    C head Cobra(99-01 the better flowing heads, also make a good NA application unlike the B heads). These were slightly quicker than the 96-98, but tougher to launch due to the weak IRS. These cars were rated 320/316

    All of fords DOHC/4V engines could be swapped among themselves. Many people found Mark VIII motors and put them in their Cobras or GT's.

    The 03-04 Mach 1 was similar to the 99-01 Cobra except the cams and intake were different which gave the car more low to mid range power. Those were rated 305(03) and 310(04). I forget the torque figures, but these cars were underrated. many were making 280-290 rwhp stock. I forget what the auto's were rated for. The Auto's had a lower redline and a different crank due to the automatic tranny.

    The 03-04 Cobra's went with forged internals and an iron block with the PD type blower. They were underrated at 390 hp.

    You also have the 1995 Cobra R w/ a 351 making 300 hp and a 2000.5 Cobra R with a 5.4 making 385 hp.

    It takes a lot of money to make a 2V make HP. It doesn't take as much to make it fast. Some guys like Bill Putnam were running their bolt on and cammed GT's to high 11's. It will cost a lot to make a 2V make power. You will need a forged bottom end, heads/cams and a power adder to make any significant power over 500.

    However, a 4V is a much better platform to start with because it responds better to mods and they love gears. Both my old 99 Cobra and 97 had 4.10's or 4.30's and love them. That woke the car up a lot. You can get a 4V into the low to mid 11's with bolt ons and weight reduction. Also the 4V loves nitrous, a blower or a turbo. Either one of those 3 will make significant power with the right combo.

    The 2V motor is no match mod for mod with the LS1. The 4V can make similar power as a LS1, but it will take more money to get there. It took my 97 Cobra w/ about 2000 in mods with full exhaust(LT's o/r exhaust), and bolt ons, 4.30's and a tune to barely stay ahead of our LS1 that has a lid and a catback.
    NA wise mod for mod, the 4V loses to the LS1 due to the cost it requires to make faster. However, you can have a 96-01 4V with forced induction and it still may not be quicker than a H/C, bolt on LS1 car. It will all depend.

    My site has quite a bit of technicial info on both the Mustang and F-Body
    Right on !
    My ole 94 Gt Vert 5-speed was a comfortable cruiser with that bitchin Ford 5.0 V8 sound . A set of AFR heads-headers w/off road H-pipe-Edelbrock intake-big throttle body-1.7 roller rockers-MSD PRO-distributor-stock cam-put down 275 RWHP on the dyno. 13.50's at 101 MPH with a 3.08 highway gear . It was a sweet ride until I fell in love with my 2002 Z/28 Vert with an auto . But nothing sounds as good as my ole Stang though !

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    +1 on the sound,my buddies 95 gt vert had a off road h-pipe and a pair of two chamber flowmasters,sounded like a winston cup car,but was slow a hell.he was outran by a non turbo 3000gt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    You would have to swap over to IRS to have the modding ability of the STI and even then its naturally better because of shorter wheel base and the AWD.
    Where are you pulling this crap from??

    4th gen F-body wheel base is 101.1 inches. An '07 STi is 99.4 inches. Thats less than 2 inches - its not detrimental to handling.

    What does make a difference is the track width. The STi is 58.7", the F-body is 60.7". That 2 inches make a big difference in stability, especially since the STi is higher by about 4 inches (56.3 vs 52.7). The STI sits higher and has a more narrow track - those measurements make the handling difference when it really comes down to all out performance, such as in racing.

    AWD is meaningless; you don't see race cars using AWD, they are all RWD. Maybe you should call NASCAR and the Indy boys and the SCCA and tell them their cars all suck because they aren't AWD. I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 98Hardtop View Post
    94-95 GT was the 302 5.0 which made 225 hp. They also had a slightly underrated Cobra which had different heads/intake and rated at 240hp. Many put down 220-230rwhp in stock form.
    96-98 GT which is what we call turds. They are the slowest 2V GT. The heads really suck as does the intake and cams. There really is no helping these motors unless you swap the top end out.
    99-04 GT commonly known as the PI motors which got better cams/heads and intake. Many 96-98 2V guys were swapping these parts to make up for the power. These motors can make some power, but will require some money.

    Also we have the B headed 4V cobra- 96-98 Cobras(heads flow great, but velocity sucks, good for FI applications, but really need a lot of port work for NA applications and 7500-8000 rpms). These guys also swap their intakes for a short runner intake which boosts hp, but you lose low end torque. A set of 4.30/4.56's changes that though These cars were rated 305/300.

    C head Cobra(99-01 the better flowing heads, also make a good NA application unlike the B heads). These were slightly quicker than the 96-98, but tougher to launch due to the weak IRS. These cars were rated 320/316

    All of fords DOHC/4V engines could be swapped among themselves. Many people found Mark VIII motors and put them in their Cobras or GT's.

    The 03-04 Mach 1 was similar to the 99-01 Cobra except the cams and intake were different which gave the car more low to mid range power. Those were rated 305(03) and 310(04). I forget the torque figures, but these cars were underrated. many were making 280-290 rwhp stock. I forget what the auto's were rated for. The Auto's had a lower redline and a different crank due to the automatic tranny.

    The 03-04 Cobra's went with forged internals and an iron block with the PD type blower. They were underrated at 390 hp.

    You also have the 1995 Cobra R w/ a 351 making 300 hp and a 2000.5 Cobra R with a 5.4 making 385 hp.

    It takes a lot of money to make a 2V make HP. It doesn't take as much to make it fast. Some guys like Bill Putnam were running their bolt on and cammed GT's to high 11's. It will cost a lot to make a 2V make power. You will need a forged bottom end, heads/cams and a power adder to make any significant power over 500.

    However, a 4V is a much better platform to start with because it responds better to mods and they love gears. Both my old 99 Cobra and 97 had 4.10's or 4.30's and love them. That woke the car up a lot. You can get a 4V into the low to mid 11's with bolt ons and weight reduction. Also the 4V loves nitrous, a blower or a turbo. Either one of those 3 will make significant power with the right combo.

    The 2V motor is no match mod for mod with the LS1. The 4V can make similar power as a LS1, but it will take more money to get there. It took my 97 Cobra w/ about 2000 in mods with full exhaust(LT's o/r exhaust), and bolt ons, 4.30's and a tune to barely stay ahead of our LS1 that has a lid and a catback.
    NA wise mod for mod, the 4V loses to the LS1 due to the cost it requires to make faster. However, you can have a 96-01 4V with forced induction and it still may not be quicker than a H/C, bolt on LS1 car. It will all depend.

    My site has quite a bit of technicial info on both the Mustang and F-Body
    Nice write up, but the 2001 cobras were rated at 317 torque not 316.
    For real though, nice write up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by preston1980 View Post
    Nice write up, but the 2001 cobras were rated at 317 torque not 316.
    For real though, nice write up.
    Ahhh dammit. I knew i should have double checked..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transamws6 View Post
    Wow thats a beautiful car man... whats holdin em back from runnin decent times with bolt on's like the LS1's do?.. the motor just dosen't respond to mods well or what i mean i don't get these cars lol...
    It is the engine size, and bore. It is something that you can't get around. Big bore and stroke will still only get it out near the truck size of 5.4. That is why boost is used, it is artificial displacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by 02transamce View Post
    i had the slowest model,97 mustang gt,ran 14.90 stock and with b&m ripper shifter,flowmaster cat-back,k&n filter,svo 70mm throttle body and 3.73 gears it improved to a 14.30.it took all that car had to outrun a 98 silverado 1500 extended cab with a stock 350!
    My wife's stock 2000 GT with an auto and stock 3.27's ran a 14.3 at Gateway in Illinois (St Louis). My 2002 Yukon with a 5.3 and 285 hp is no match for it. Not even close. Maybe after my LQ based 402.

    The 96-98 was a drop in from the Crown Vic, and nothing more. And considering how many of those cars Ford sold compared to the F-Body, I don't think they care. Probably why I don't have one. As others here, if I got one, it would be an 03-04 Cobra.

    The Cobra and Mach 1 are not the same. In fact, the 4V heads have proably 6 versions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NaviDyn View Post
    It is the engine size, and bore. It is something that you can't get around. Big bore and stroke will still only get it out near the truck size of 5.4. That is why boost is used, it is artificial displacement.



    My wife's stock 2000 GT with an auto and stock 3.27's ran a 14.3 at Gateway in Illinois (St Louis). My 2002 Yukon with a 5.3 and 285 hp is no match for it. Not even close. Maybe after my LQ based 402.

    The 96-98 was a drop in from the Crown Vic, and nothing more. And considering how many of those cars Ford sold compared to the F-Body, I don't think they care. Probably why I don't have one. As others here, if I got one, it would be an 03-04 Cobra.

    The Cobra and Mach 1 are not the same. In fact, the 4V heads have proably 6 versions.
    Dead thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by c5z28 View Post
    Back from the Dead thread
    fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NaviDyn View Post
    It is the engine size, and bore. It is something that you can't get around. Big bore and stroke will still only get it out near the truck size of 5.4. That is why boost is used, it is artificial displacement.



    My wife's stock 2000 GT with an auto and stock 3.27's ran a 14.3 at Gateway in Illinois (St Louis). My 2002 Yukon with a 5.3 and 285 hp is no match for it. Not even close. Maybe after my LQ based 402.

    The 96-98 was a drop in from the Crown Vic, and nothing more. And considering how many of those cars Ford sold compared to the F-Body, I don't think they care. Probably why I don't have one. As others here, if I got one, it would be an 03-04 Cobra.

    The Cobra and Mach 1 are not the same. In fact, the 4V heads have proably 6 versions.
    I'll beat the dead thread some more. I don't think anybody said the Mach 1 and Cobra were the same. But as far as the 4V heads go, they are identical! The difference is the pistons. The Cobra uses a dished piston to increase the size of the combustion chamber, which lowers the compression to 8.5:1. The Mach 1 uses a flat top piston, and has a 10.1:1 compression ratio.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRMach1 View Post
    I'll beat the dead thread some more. I don't think anybody said the Mach 1 and Cobra were the same. But as far as the 4V heads go, they are identical! The difference is the pistons. The Cobra uses a dished piston to increase the size of the combustion chamber, which lowers the compression to 8.5:1. The Mach 1 uses a flat top piston, and has a 10.1:1 compression ratio.
    The supercharged cobra had 8.5 to 1 but the 99 and 01 N/A cobras have 9.85 to 1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    The supercharged cobra had 8.5 to 1 but the 99 and 01 N/A cobras have 9.85 to 1.
    They also had slightly different heads and cams. I was comparing the 03/04 Terminator Cobra 4V heads to the 03/04 Mach 1 4V heads, which are identical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRMach1 View Post
    They also had slightly different heads and cams. I was comparing the 03/04 Terminator Cobra 4V heads to the 03/04 Mach 1 4V heads, which are identical.
    You were actually comparing low comp forged built for boost pistons to n/a which is silly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    You were actually comparing low comp forged built for boost pistons to n/a which is silly
    I wasn't comparing pistons at all. I was merely stating that the 03/04 Cobra and 03/04 Mach 1 4V heads are identical. But I went on to say that they have different compression ratios, not because of a difference in the head design, but a difference in the type of piston used. That's not a comparison, it's an explanation. Yeah, one's a fully forged iron block, while the other is a semi-forged aluminum block, but they do share the exact same heads and cams, that was the point.

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