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Cobra's Wow!

This is a discussion on Cobra's Wow! within the Domestics and Foreigns forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by slims00ls1z28 Technically not you have a 4.6L engine with an added 2.8L so yours equals out to ...

  1. #21
    Senior Member predator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slims00ls1z28 View Post
    Technically not you have a 4.6L engine with an added 2.8L so yours equals out to the displacement of roughly 7.4L :P
    WHAT?

    Suppose the super charger is pushing around 15 psi... that would simply mean he has roughly 16:1 final compression ratio...

    -me

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    no more 4th gen secondgearscratch's Avatar
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    now i really hate getting into this argument but the force is pulling me towards it...

    as far as jayplay goes, i have read your posts, and its pretty obvious that you think you can walk anybody. i just wanted to say...good for you.

    the age old argument is tiresome. i love cobras, but i love my f body and i am gm faithful.

    cobra guys love to exploit the fact that they have a 281 vs. a 346.

    the lsx guys love to say they dont have the benefit of boost.

    the way i see it, a cobra is only king, respectively, if it keeps the factory blower. how is it fair to bag on ls1s with a 2.4 l kb twin screw that wont fit in an f body. i am deathly certain that a c5 with similar compression and even a comparable blower to the stock cobra unit would walk the kb terminator. put the kb on the lsx, say good night.

    and i totally hear the cobra argument. too bad, we're boosted. thats certainly true.

    the problem is that if you compare the performance of your beloved modular in natural form, it is nowhere near as powerful and fast as an ls1 in an f body. yes i understand that the ls1 has more cubes, so as you'd say, too bad.

    the other bitch i have is this: the cobra was BUILT FOR BOOST. meaning that under a factory warranty you have a supercharger and supporting mods and it runs safely and efficiently. GM doesnt offer a boosted variant of any v8 model cars.

    being that a 346 is much bigger cubes, if i built an 8 and half to one motor i would not only be wearing out a cobra but doing so with less boost.

    all in all, i would love a cobra. hell, in a few years i may trade up. but i will always have an lsx around because they are gritty.....

  3. #23
    Senior Member predator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by secondgearscratch View Post
    GM doesnt offer a boosted variant of any v8 model cars.
    CTS-V... and actually its more of an apples to apples kind of comparison... as would be a 5.4 to 5.7 ford to chevy comparison...

    I mean look at an XLR-V... yes its expensive... atleast $50k more than a Cobra, but lets face it... a hard top Cadivette is just gonna cost more than a boosted economy pony car...

    2004 CTS-V specs

    4.4L DHOC Supercharged V8... I'll even hand some displacement to the Cobra...
    440 HP and 415 ft-lb.... Hmmmmm not really swinging in fords direction...
    0-60 in 4.6 seconds....
    100 HP/L and 94 ft-bl/L

    04 Cobra specs

    4.6 DHOC Supercharged V8
    390 hp and 390 Ft-lbs
    0-60 in 4.5 seconds...
    85 HP/L and 85 ft-lb/L

    Motor to motor.... EASILY GM

    Now how about a z06 vs a cobra R

    2004 Z06

    5.7 Pushrod V8
    405 HP and 400 ft-lbs
    0-60 in 4 seconds
    71 HP/L and 70 ft-lbs/L

    2000 cobra-R
    5.4 Liter DOHC V8
    385 HP and 385 Ft-Lb
    0-60 in 4.5
    71 HP/L and 71 ft-lbs/L

    Ouch sorry its gotta go to the cobra when it comes to Motor... and had i used a 2000 comparible car it would have been more in favor of the Cobra R, but come on only 300 Cobra R's were created... and they were DOHC... I would excpect soooooo much more from them... if you compared it to a ford pushrod V8 it would have been a blow out...

    -me

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    Quote Originally Posted by secondgearscratch View Post
    now i really hate getting into this argument but the force is pulling me towards it...

    as far as jayplay goes, i have read your posts, and its pretty obvious that you think you can walk anybody. i just wanted to say...good for you.

    the age old argument is tiresome. i love cobras, but i love my f body and i am gm faithful.

    cobra guys love to exploit the fact that they have a 281 vs. a 346.

    the lsx guys love to say they dont have the benefit of boost.

    the way i see it, a cobra is only king, respectively, if it keeps the factory blower. how is it fair to bag on ls1s with a 2.4 l kb twin screw that wont fit in an f body. i am deathly certain that a c5 with similar compression and even a comparable blower to the stock cobra unit would walk the kb terminator. put the kb on the lsx, say good night.

    and i totally hear the cobra argument. too bad, we're boosted. thats certainly true.

    the problem is that if you compare the performance of your beloved modular in natural form, it is nowhere near as powerful and fast as an ls1 in an f body. yes i understand that the ls1 has more cubes, so as you'd say, too bad.

    the other bitch i have is this: the cobra was BUILT FOR BOOST. meaning that under a factory warranty you have a supercharger and supporting mods and it runs safely and efficiently. GM doesnt offer a boosted variant of any v8 model cars.

    being that a 346 is much bigger cubes, if i built an 8 and half to one motor i would not only be wearing out a cobra but doing so with less boost.

    all in all, i would love a cobra. hell, in a few years i may trade up. but i will always have an lsx around because they are gritty.....

    These arguments have been done over and over. I have to admit from a marketing standpoint the '03 Cobra was a good move. Even though they only sold about 20,000 of them the car is still a big deal with enthusiasts. It's key strength is ease of modability, because of a forged bottom end. Suffice to say that if you had an LS1, forged and blown, it would polish off the Cobra with ease. But there is no forged LS1 without $2500 in parts, $500 in machining and balancing costs and a three weekends in the garage with the tools to do it. Then there's the cost of a good blower to add. That's too much for most LS1 bolt-on owners who would rather go with a more simple heads and cam package. You'll win most races but not against the whipple charged Cobras.

    Artificial aspiration is not for everyone. The noise of the dentist's drill can be annoying. But like the Turbo-Buick, the Cobra is a great performer, and as a car it's practical, unlike my Z06, which is pretty useless. I'll go for a new Camaro when it comes out for sure.

    For all-out performance a Z07 factory engine is the shitz. Mod it and you're a potential 1000hp+. That's the way to go if you have a Camaro these days.

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    running on empty Madcity T/A's Avatar
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    My neighbor has a 03 cobra 34 year old mom! She is good friends with my mom so I got to drive it. it was sweet. but it was really quite and I still think my WS6 is more fun to drive. when I get my H/C then we will have to race. O and she just got divorced so maybe I should hit that and get the car.

  6. #26
    Rollo Tomassee AKIRA's Avatar
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    Is she hot too?

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    running on empty Madcity T/A's Avatar
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    she is ok. hey you got to make sacrifices for the car.
    you know I think If she wa ever looking for another man she would have better luck going o the mustang forums then going to a dating site.

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    Isn't the '03 Cobra faster by only .02-.04 in the 1/4 mile then the '02 SS stock with 50hp more ponies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HurricaneLS1 View Post
    Isn't the '03 Cobra faster by only .02-.04 in the 1/4 mile then the '02 SS stock with 50hp more ponies?

    a stock ss 6 speed could hit a 12.99 on street tires. cobras could hit 12.40s on street tires. these times arent necessarily the norm but the cobra is a good bit faster bone stock to bone stock. nothing a cam cant remedy.

    the times i listed are all with relatively good 60 foots, which is difficult on street radials.

  10. #30
    Senior Member slims00ls1z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by predator View Post
    WHAT?

    Suppose the super charger is pushing around 15 psi... that would simply mean he has roughly 16:1 final compression ratio...

    -me
    What dont you understand? Where do you think the terms 2.8L or 221 CI blowers (different blowers one KB other Magnuson) come into play? It is the interior deminsions of the said superchargers in which the screws will force into the engine. Add more boost by spinning it faster adding 2.8 L of air even faster. Hence more PSI. Turbos and the other superchargers do the same thing but they are smaller and spin faster.
    Last edited by slims00ls1z28; 08-10-2007 at 11:46 AM.

  11. #31
    Senior Member predator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slims00ls1z28 View Post
    What dont you understand? Where do you think the terms 2.8L or 221 CI blowers (different blowers one KB other Magnuson) come into play? It is the interior deminsions of the said superchargers in which the screws will force into the engine.
    I dont understand where you equate that having a 2.8L supercharger equates to adding 2.8 Liters to the total displacment of the motor... how can you possibly assume that a 4.6L motor with a 2.8L super charger is the same as a 7.4 L motor?

    Thats kinda like saying that having a 10 pound bottle of NOS is like having a turbo pushing 10 pounds... though the units kinda sound the same... they arent really the same...

    and is it the internal volume (by this i mean the space inside minus the screws/roots, which is how you make it sound)? or is it the volume of air moved per revolution.... If that is the case... well then you have liters and liters/revolution... that is soooooo far from just being able to be added...

    and by that logic your saying a 4L engine with a 2L SC pushing "X" psi is like a 6L motor and will produce about the same HP as a Nat Asp 6L motor... But the SAME engine with a 1L SC spinning twice as fast to push the same psi will only act like a 5L motor?

    Dude seriously... sit down and read what you've said and see if it makes any sence....

    -me
    Last edited by predator; 08-10-2007 at 01:46 PM.

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    Member JayplaySS2's Avatar
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    Calm down. I dont think I can walk everybody. My next car will be a C6 Z06 so I love GM just as much as the next guy. I also like Ford too though. I just give credit where it is due. The N/A 5.0 Cammer for the FR500 series car makes 535 hp (more than the Z06 with MUCH less displacement but a race motor) and the N/A 7.0l in the S7 makes 550 hp. They can build them when they need to. Blower was just easy. The XLR is rated at 440 and the Cobra is rated at 390. I am sure they are not correct either. The Cobra is closer to 440 due to 360-380rwhp in stock form corrected for 15% DT loss. I am confident the Caddy will not make 440bhp but who cares. So Ford does still win the MOD wars. LSX is the future platform and we all know it. No big deal. For the record, there are guys who crave MASSIVE power, like myself and would still need FI on the mighty LS7. When they put the LS7 into the Camaro (Katech I believe) it was still a turd. The Vette AND the LS7 make the ultimate combo.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by predator View Post
    I dont understand where you equate that having a 2.8L supercharger equates to adding 2.8 Liters to the total displacment of the motor... how can you possibly assume that a 4.6L motor with a 2.8L super charger is the same as a 7.4 L motor?

    Thats kinda like saying that having a 10 pound bottle of NOS is like having a turbo pushing 10 pounds... though the units kinda sound the same... they arent really the same...

    and is it the internal volume (by this i mean the space inside minus the screws/roots, which is how you make it sound)? or is it the volume of air moved per revolution.... If that is the case... well then you have liters and liters/revolution... that is soooooo far from just being able to be added...

    and by that logic your saying a 4L engine with a 2L SC pushing "X" psi is like a 6L motor and will produce about the same HP as a Nat Asp 6L motor... But the SAME engine with a 1L SC spinning twice as fast to push the same psi will only act like a 5L motor?

    Dude seriously... sit down and read what you've said and see if it makes any sence....

    -me

    I dont quite understand that argument either since boost is a measure of restriction and it varies. I just see it as a 4.6L 281ci engine with a blower.

  14. #34
    Member JayplaySS2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by secondgearscratch View Post
    now i really hate getting into this argument but the force is pulling me towards it...

    as far as jayplay goes, i have read your posts, and its pretty obvious that you think you can walk anybody. i just wanted to say...good for you.

    the age old argument is tiresome. i love cobras, but i love my f body and i am gm faithful.

    cobra guys love to exploit the fact that they have a 281 vs. a 346.

    the lsx guys love to say they dont have the benefit of boost.

    the way i see it, a cobra is only king, respectively, if it keeps the factory blower. how is it fair to bag on ls1s with a 2.4 l kb twin screw that wont fit in an f body. i am deathly certain that a c5 with similar compression and even a comparable blower to the stock cobra unit would walk the kb terminator. put the kb on the lsx, say good night.

    and i totally hear the cobra argument. too bad, we're boosted. thats certainly true.

    the problem is that if you compare the performance of your beloved modular in natural form, it is nowhere near as powerful and fast as an ls1 in an f body. yes i understand that the ls1 has more cubes, so as you'd say, too bad.

    the other bitch i have is this: the cobra was BUILT FOR BOOST. meaning that under a factory warranty you have a supercharger and supporting mods and it runs safely and efficiently. GM doesnt offer a boosted variant of any v8 model cars.

    being that a 346 is much bigger cubes, if i built an 8 and half to one motor i would not only be wearing out a cobra but doing so with less boost.

    all in all, i would love a cobra. hell, in a few years i may trade up. but i will always have an lsx around because they are gritty.....

    You dont know enough about LSX's. Here is a prime example. Here is your beloved LSX on a 6.0 LS2 with Forged internals and a KB. 700hp
    http://turnkeyenginesupply.com/street_60700.htm



    Dude, the 281 Cobra motors can run 800-900hp with the KB. FYI.
    This one made 900+


    Say good night huh?

    How many LS1's have you built? I have personnaly built 6 and as we speak I am about to install a Procharger set up on a 2000 Z28. I am well aware of thier abilities. I have probably forgotten more about LSX's than you know.
    Last edited by JayplaySS2; 08-10-2007 at 02:46 PM.

  15. #35
    Member JayplaySS2's Avatar
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    Oh yea, hell of a bargin too! We can make that power with $5K in mods.
    You have to buy a $20K engine.

  16. #36
    no more 4th gen secondgearscratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayplaySS2 View Post
    Calm down. I dont think I can walk everybody. My next car will be a C6 Z06 so I love GM just as much as the next guy. I also like Ford too though. I just give credit where it is due. The N/A 5.0 Cammer for the FR500 series car makes 535 hp (more than the Z06 with MUCH less displacement but a race motor) and the N/A 7.0l in the S7 makes 550 hp. They can build them when they need to. Blower was just easy. The XLR is rated at 440 and the Cobra is rated at 390. I am sure they are not correct either. The Cobra is closer to 440 due to 360-380rwhp in stock form corrected for 15% DT loss. I am confident the Caddy will not make 440bhp but who cares. So Ford does still win the MOD wars. LSX is the future platform and we all know it. No big deal. For the record, there are guys who crave MASSIVE power, like myself and would still need FI on the mighty LS7. When they put the LS7 into the Camaro (Katech I believe) it was still a turd. The Vette AND the LS7 make the ultimate combo.
    i know of one track test where gmpp put the ls7 into a z28 with longtube headers and blew out the transmission and wore out the clutch and it ran a 12 flat with all those problems.

    youre point though makes no sense in the first place, because anyone knows that transplanting the ls7 into a heavier car than a vette probably means that said car wont be as fast as the vette.

    the original point wasnt to show up the z06 with an ls7 f body, it was to show the ease of installation and the practicality for the home mechanic to do this swap through a kit. it was a marketing manuever at best. you can see the potential of any high horsepower motor in many platforms, the same can be said for an ls1 in a 68 camaro.

    im not hyper, and i was merely pointing out the fact that in nearly every post you get in an argument and act arrogant . you dont need to be. i can read, i see where it says you have a cobra. automatically that makes your car faster than mine and many others. is that really the point though? if you wanna rep ford and shit on gm (like it seems you do) then do it else where as this is a gm based forum. i constantly get in arguments with ford haters on this website and tell them bashing is dumb and here you come with a ford product bashing gm.

    i dont see how ford wins the mod war, but if thats what you think, ok. gm pony cars havent experienced the benefit of factory warrantied boost like some of the fords have, and i think its safe to assume that a 346 with 8.5:1 compression and forged internals would lay waste to any cobra product for the simple fact that it would have more cubes. but this isnt reality so why give a shit and why make excuses. cobras are fast, i like them, oh well.

    i applaud you for owning a very bad ass car. honestly. but one of these days you may just lose. always someone with more money (which is what it really comes down to)

    if ive misread you i apologize. i am sick of the gm/ford, cobra/f body bitching threads because alot of the arguments are retarded and then it turns into a flame war.

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    no more 4th gen secondgearscratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayplaySS2 View Post
    You dont know enough about LSX's. Here is a prime example. Here is your beloved LSX on a 6.0 LS2 with Forged internals and a KB. 700hp
    http://turnkeyenginesupply.com/street_60700.htm

    Click for full size

    Dude, the 281 Cobra motors can run 800-900hp with the KB. FYI.
    This one made 900+
    Click for full size

    Say good night huh?

    How many LS1's have you built? I have personnaly built 6 and as we speak I am about to install a Procharger set up on a 2000 Z28. I am well aware of thier abilities. I have probably forgotten more about LSX's than you know.
    the one you have cited isnt the one i have continually cited, which puts down about 1200 hp conservatively


    i dont know how you honestly think that a 281 can make more power than a 346 built for boost, but ok. i know the modular motors love the boost, but you cant argue with shear cubes.

    im sure youre more experienced than me, but that really has little to do with the basic theory that more cubes means more power, boost or no boost.

  18. #38
    Member JayplaySS2's Avatar
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    I would never think ANY 281 engine would make more power than 346 but EVERYBODY thinks they can just bolt on a S/C to an LS1 and lay waste to Cobras. Not true at all. My Z06 will have a single turbo and some spray.

    Thats the 2.8H blower that I have too! Damn its sexy but way more difficult getting that to fit and work as easy as mine does. Youd need a 5" cowl just to fit it.

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    Member JayplaySS2's Avatar
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    Im not fighting with you either. WHat I am sick of is guys with COMMENTS about Cobras who NEVER owned one. I have owned a highly modded LS1 and a highly modded Cobra.

    There are a lot of Cobra experts that dont even have one or GOD forbid ever even driven one!

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    no more 4th gen secondgearscratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayplaySS2 View Post
    I would never think ANY 281 engine would make more power than 346 but EVERYBODY thinks they can just bolt on a S/C to an LS1 and lay waste to Cobras. Not true at all. My Z06 will have a single turbo and some spray.
    i agree but im not one of those people man.

    noobs and dipshits think its simple like you mentioned, but we're talking about alot of money shelled out for dished pistons, machining to get the right chamber size, new rings, new crank, basically the bottom half of the motor. not to mention a blower cam and appropriate flowing heads and intake manifold. lots and lots of tuning. intercooler and plumbing, coolant lines and things i have no earthly idea about.
    it is never just a bolt on affair....even centrifugals need alittle tweaking here and there.

    the main reason i love the cobra is its ease in regards to modification. look at the platform! thats why if i had one i wouldnt hesitate to put a kb on there. i rave about them daily.

    forced induction will almost always be more reliable off the factory floor.

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