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1995 Acura Legend 3.2

This is a discussion on 1995 Acura Legend 3.2 within the Domestics and Foreigns forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; I don't know a lot of the cars history. It leaked water and oil pretty bad and my boss bought ...

  1. #1
    Member IH8EVRY1's Avatar
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    1995 Acura Legend 3.2

    I don't know a lot of the cars history. It leaked water and oil pretty bad and my boss bought it for his son. His son drove it a few months and said the thermostat didn't work. I know the car had been over heated before from the previous owner. So, they told me they thought it had a blown head gasket and asked if I'd help them. I wanted to know why the thought blown head gasket. The gave the symptoms: White Smoke, erratic idle and some others that they found on a DIY website. I told them I though it needed to be diagnosed by a professional to which they replied that they didn't want to spend a lot of money on the car and asked again if I'd just come help them do the head gaskets. I went down there and pulled the intake/heads off the car and the gaskets were certainly both blown. I refused to just put the heads back on with new gaskets and made them take the heads to a machine shop. The heads were milled, had a valve job and seals. I went back down there this weekend to put them back on and nothing went right. I got the cams torqued back down in the heads and started putting the heads on. The passenger side went on easily enough and I started bolting it down. First by hand, then holding the socket to get a little more grip. I did it all in order and got it as tight as I could with my hands. I put 30 lbs on the torque wrench and gave all the bolts a complete turn...still going in order. The #1 bolt was the first that the torque wrench clicked on after 4-5 turns. So I moved on...when I got to the #8 bolt it spun...way too freely. So I stopped and backed everything off. When that bolt came out it had threads from the block still in the thread grooves of the bolt. I don't get it. I cleaned everything, blew out everything, put anti-seize on the threads and tightened everything by hand first to make sure the bolts weren't cross threaded or didn't feel like they were galling. Everything felt fine until that turn with the torque wrench. What could make the threads pull out like that with such little weight on them? The chilton book said torque the head bolts to 56 lbs BTW.

    Anyone on the palm coast want a Legend...cheap?
    Last edited by IH8EVRY1; 07-18-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Is it an aluminum or cast iron block??

    Did you replace the head bolts?? 9/10 times head bolts need to be replaced for the simple reason that they stretch when torqued. If you tried to re-thread the bolt into the hole and the threads were stretched, it may have caused it to basically cross-thread, since the threads in the block and the threads on the bolt would not line up perfectly.

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    What I do? SHines-IT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Is it an aluminum or cast iron block??

    Did you replace the head bolts?? 9/10 times head bolts need to be replaced for the simple reason that they stretch when torqued. If you tried to re-thread the bolt into the hole and the threads were stretched, it may have caused it to basically cross-thread, since the threads in the block and the threads on the bolt would not line up perfectly.
    Should be aluminum. It's about 200 HP and 210 pound feet... I almost put one in my old 97 3.2 TL when the engine took a shit, it has better aftermarket support... My ricer days...
    Last edited by SHines-IT; 07-20-2010 at 01:11 PM.

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    Member IH8EVRY1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Is it an aluminum or cast iron block??

    Did you replace the head bolts?? 9/10 times head bolts need to be replaced for the simple reason that they stretch when torqued. If you tried to re-thread the bolt into the hole and the threads were stretched, it may have caused it to basically cross-thread, since the threads in the block and the threads on the bolt would not line up perfectly.
    Yup...I reused the old bolts and it is an aluminum block. I told them to get new bolts and they didn't. When I asked about it they said they wanted to re use the old bolts. I just said okey dokey and went with it since they were trying to not spend money. I guess hind site is 20/20 right?

    My aluminum block will have new bolts going into it when I do my H/C/I...thanks for the comments. I don't thought about that aspect.

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IH8EVRY1 View Post
    Yup...I reused the old bolts and it is an aluminum block. I told them to get new bolts and they didn't. When I asked about it they said they wanted to re use the old bolts. I just said okey dokey and went with it since they were trying to not spend money. I guess hind site is 20/20 right?

    My aluminum block will have new bolts going into it when I do my H/C/I...thanks for the comments. I don't thought about that aspect.
    Hey, it happens. At least it wasn't your motor though!!

    You may even want to consider ARP head studs for your build, they allow for more accuracy when torquing the heads never need to be replaced. Only downside is cost, they cost significantly more than bolts.

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    Member IH8EVRY1's Avatar
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    Studs were my plan. I wanted to put new bolts in that legend but if they wanted to try it cheap I wasn't going to keep pushing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    9/10 times head bolts need to be replaced for the simple reason that they stretch when torqued.
    They only stretch at excessively at 56 lbs if they are cheap bolts. I doubt they are cheap. This is the reason the Supra 7M engine had head gasket issues. The stock 58 lb/ft was not enough to stretch and hold tension. And some of the bolts were found to be hand tight when the gasket would blow. They just came undone.

    If the bolt had had aluminum on it from the block, it the block likely overheated severly and is annealed. This is conjecture of course, as the OP is the only one to have seen the engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    You may even want to consider ARP head studs for your build, they allow for more accuracy when torquing the heads never need to be replaced. Only downside is cost, they cost significantly more than bolts.
    This is a good idea. He can check if they sell bolts also. I don't know the strength of the Honda sourced bolt.

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    Member IH8EVRY1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaviDyn View Post
    They only stretch at excessively at 56 lbs if they are cheap bolts. I doubt they are cheap. This is the reason the Supra 7M engine had head gasket issues. The stock 58 lb/ft was not enough to stretch and hold tension. And some of the bolts were found to be hand tight when the gasket would blow. They just came undone.

    If the bolt had had aluminum on it from the block, it the block likely overheated severly and is annealed. This is conjecture of course, as the OP is the only one to have seen the engine.



    This is a good idea. He can check if they sell bolts also. I don't know the strength of the Honda sourced bolt.
    They do sell aftermarket bolts for the Honda/Acura stuff but I'm waiting on the guys with the car to tell me what they want to do. They are debating on fixing the car versus scrapping it. I didn't want to do it with the old bolts but they didn't want to buy new ones. Oh well...I was doing it for free so I wasn't going to force them. I told them it was a bad idea in case the bolts had stretched and so did the machinist that worked on the heads.

    Also, the bolt that stripped did have threads stuck in the grooves of the bolts. It was like the female threads inside the block came out with the head bolts when I removed it.

    The more I research and get opinions, the more I don't think I did anything wrong. I'm not an "experienced" engine builder so I'm not sure I did everything right but I went by the book and took my time to make sure I wasn't skipping anything. There were a few things not in "the book" that I did because I know from past builds that they help and some common knowledge things that I had concerns with but given the circumstances I feel better. I don't think that I screwed it up anymore and kinda feel like it may have been a doomed undertaking to begin with.

    I know for a fact that the car was severely overheated once. The thermostat is broken so "the car always reads hot" is what they told me. That's not something I would ride around comfortable with. I do know that when I got to their house and we started talking about moving the car into the driveway that he cranked it up and it ran for about a minute with NO oil other than the residual on the components and when I pulled the radiator hoses, no water came out. I was particularly worried about the lower one not having anything spill out.

    Oh well...I learned a lot and hopefully the kid who owns the car did to.

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    Member NaviDyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IH8EVRY1 View Post
    I didn't want to do it with the old bolts but they didn't want to buy new ones. Oh well
    You aren't the first.

    Also, the bolt that stripped did have threads stuck in the grooves of the bolts. It was like the female threads inside the block came out with the head bolts when I removed it.
    Probably something like this one.



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    Member IH8EVRY1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaviDyn View Post
    You aren't the first.



    Probably something like this one.


    Click for full size
    Just like that one except that the threads(From the block) near the end of the bolt were unwinding from the bolt.

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