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70's 454 chevelle

This is a discussion on 70's 454 chevelle within the Classic Muscle forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by Shermanator86 To add to this I've always been told "there is always something faster" no matter how ...

  1. #21
    Senior Member FasstChevys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shermanator86 View Post
    To add to this I've always been told "there is always something faster" no matter how fast you are

    To the op, sounds like someone who just likes to run their mouth and/or has no knowledge of cars. Give him a ride in your car and see if that shuts him up.
    True story

  2. #22
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    It could have alot to do with the value of the car, I know it affects me now that I'm getting older. Just about any state considers street racing an automatic license suspension but even worse, impounding the car,,,or worse.

    I'm not saying I've never done it, but I'm less likely to participate when I'm driving a 6 figure car, and if I do, it's for a very short burst, maybe a gear or two.
    If I'm in the 4th gen however I may be more likely to goof around, simply because a $6,000 car is much easier to replace.

  3. #23
    Senior Member FasstChevys's Avatar
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    I agree FBJ, but in this case, I believe it's more about the 'kid' running his mouth more than anything.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FasstChevys View Post
    I agree FBJ, but in this case, I believe it's more about the 'kid' running his mouth more than anything.
    Sure sounds like it huh?

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    Member dav-02ws6-m6's Avatar
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    To add to this I've always been told "there is always something faster" no matter how fast you are

    To the op, sounds like someone who just likes to run their mouth and/or has no knowledge of cars. Give him a ride in your car and see if that shuts him up.[/QUOTE]


    That's what I was thinking on doing. But I felt what one of my said was true. No matter if I take him for a ride my car will never be as fast as his chevelle. I'll just try to ignore him, if he keep talking I will tell him to go and get daddy's car otherwise to shut the Hell up.

    Thanks guy for the info I wanted to know more about the chevelle anyways sense is one of my favorite car.

  6. #26
    Member Redrokit8's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, "back in the day" ( late sixties, early seventies ) there were always a few "privileged" guys whose parents bought them the latest and greatest GTO'S, Chevelles, Camaros etc usually with the biggest and baddest engine. They sure were fast but the majority of of those guys could't get them off the line. Either bog down or sit and spin. They always wanted to do the rolling start to avoid embarrassment. Guys like us usually had Rube Goldberg small blocks with 4:11's or higher. If we got a good jump we could outlast them by a few hairs in the 1/4. Of course after the 1/4 those sleds would go on by like a run away train. It was funny as hell watching them lose by a fraction.

  7. #27
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    Back in the day most of the cars the magazines tested were what they call ringers, They were highly tuned before being tested. A 454 ls 6 chevelle on the street ran high 13s at about 104 mph if they could get traction, also a well tuned 426 hemi cuda was just as quick. Unfourtunately the big block engines ran really hot not to mention they got like 11 mpg.

  8. #28
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    With everything tuned and running as it should, there shouldn't be any heat issues. All of my big blocks run cool, even with the AC blasting in the Arizona heat. Mileage isn't horrible considering....depending on which big block we are talking about, I get between 12 and 16 mpg from trucks shaped like a brick to cars making over 600 hp. They can be economical (to an extent) if properly tuned and maintained.

    Factory road tests that report mileage usually base that off of a tank of gas after they have beat the snott out of it Not to mention, have you ever gotten ahold of an unmollested muscle car that still had it's factory tune? The timing curve sucks, very slow with stiff springs that doesn't reach total advance until 4,000 rpms or worse, and might have a total of 26 degrees if you are lucky. Carbs also need alot of tinkering to be optimal.

    In other words, there was alot of room for improvement when these things were new. That still stands true today even with these LS engines. These tunes aren't optimal either.

  9. #29
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    I drove a ss 396 chevelle every day for many years and it ran hot. even more so in stop and go traffic you could feel the heat come through the firewall/trans tunnel. Fuel mileage on a good day was 13 mpg car was bone stock with a 4 speed and 3 55 rear gears. You cant compare newer muscle like an ls 1 camaro to the old stuff, The new computer controlled engines are smoother faster cooler running and get way better gas milage plus they stay in tune better. If you didnt blow out the carbon on those high comp engines plugs would foul up and they would run like garbage. Not to mention they ran on leaded gas.

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    I thought old school GM's optioned 4:11's and Ford used 4:10's..
    Last edited by Smittro; 04-09-2012 at 01:52 PM.

  11. #31
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimss View Post
    I drove a ss 396 chevelle every day for many years and it ran hot. even more so in stop and go traffic you could feel the heat come through the firewall/trans tunnel. Fuel mileage on a good day was 13 mpg car was bone stock with a 4 speed and 3 55 rear gears. You cant compare newer muscle like an ls 1 camaro to the old stuff, The new computer controlled engines are smoother faster cooler running and get way better gas milage plus they stay in tune better. If you didnt blow out the carbon on those high comp engines plugs would foul up and they would run like garbage. Not to mention they ran on leaded gas.
    It obviously had issues then. If I can drive a 640 HP 454 chevelle in traffic with the AC blowing and ambient temps at 105 degrees and never get above 190 degrees, then there is no reason a bone stock 396 won't do it. Chevelle's have some of the biggest (dimensionally) radiators out of the GM camp. Since you had plugs fouling, that tells me it was in a poor state of tune to begin with.

    I'd be willing to bet with only 13 mpg and plugs fouling the carb was fat,,,but even more likely it had a lazy timing curve with not enough total advance and/or the vacuum advance wasn't working properly. These things both would contribute to poor mileage and cause the engine to run warmer than it should. Especially if vacuum advance is plugged into ported vacuum instead of manifold.

    I wasn't trying to compare new to old, only stating that factory tunes aren't optimal, both 40 years ago, and today. There is alot of fudge room for improvement. But if I had to choose I'll take my classic cars any day over a 4th gen, and that's a fact,,,sorry, I'm no dummy .

  12. #32
    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dav-02ws6-m6 View Post
    Alright guys how fast were this things on the 1/4 mile stock and how much power were they putting down. The reason that I am asking is because there is this guy at work always telling me about his chevelle.( as far as I know its his dad's but he's always saying MY CHEVELLE haha) and he keeps telling me that there is nothing out there that can bit it. Btw the car should be stock.
    Being 51 years old I do remember racing a guy named Rich Hinkle in his 1970 Chevelle LS6 in heavy eliminator at Englishtown Raceway Park in the late 70's. With headers and some tuning they were low 12 sec machines. Bone stock they would run mid to low 13's. There were two 454's in 1970. The LS5 had 365 hp and the LS6 had 450. Both were available with M-20, 21 or 22 4 speeds or the TH400 Auto and you could get just about any rearend ratio you wanted. Back in the day you had a choice of 50 or so different options not like today where you have two or three option packages. I hope this helps.
    My ride is a 2002 Camaro SS SLP #3296 with 30k, LTH, 3" Y, CME, Frost tune, K&N, ported TB, Blackwing lid, Bellows, MSD, Denso Iridium, and 85mm MAF, Bilsteins, Eibach springs, SLP strut brace, Adj. Panhard, TA Girdle, UMI, Pro 5.0, Nitto NT555
    My wife has a 2004 GTO with the rare SAP, 18" wheels, K&N Cold Air System, MSD, Ported TB, Frost tune, Denso Iridium, Flowmaster cat-back, 3200 Yank, 75k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    It obviously had issues then. If I can drive a 640 HP 454 chevelle in traffic with the AC blowing and ambient temps at 105 degrees and never get above 190 degrees, then there is no reason a bone stock 396 won't do it. Chevelle's have some of the biggest (dimensionally) radiators out of the GM camp. Since you had plugs fouling, that tells me it was in a poor state of tune to begin with.

    I'd be willing to bet with only 13 mpg and plugs fouling the carb was fat,,,but even more likely it had a lazy timing curve with not enough total advance and/or the vacuum advance wasn't working properly. These things both would contribute to poor mileage and cause the engine to run warmer than it should. Especially if vacuum advance is plugged into ported vacuum instead of manifold.

    I wasn't trying to compare new to old, only stating that factory tunes aren't optimal, both 40 years ago, and today. There is alot of fudge room for improvement. But if I had to choose I'll take my classic cars any day over a 4th gen, and that's a fact,,,sorry, I'm no dummy .
    Im no dummy either i owned the car for over 15 years and when i say it ran hot i mean its just the nature of the engine It wasnt close to over heating or anything like that its just that the big blocks dissapated tons of heat. i also knew a few other guys with big block chevys and the ran very warm also. Not to mention they broke rocker arms left and right.

  14. #34
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimss View Post
    Im no dummy either i owned the car for over 15 years and when i say it ran hot i mean its just the nature of the engine It wasnt close to over heating or anything like that its just that the big blocks dissapated tons of heat. i also knew a few other guys with big block chevys and the ran very warm also. Not to mention they broke rocker arms left and right.
    What were you guys doing with these things to have so many issues? I still think there are things behind the scenes that needed attended to that possibly you or they weren't aware of....and I wasn't trying to imply you were a dummy Just a figure of speach.

    I can (and have) drive my big blocks on a daily basis for years and never have any heat issues. The 502 in my old 79 pickup truck runs extremely cool, and the 454 that was in it previously with 100,000 miles on it I've driven accross the country 4 times at 2,000 miles a pop, once towing my 10,000 lbs. 28 foot enclosed trailer with the AC blowing. It never over heated, it did get warm on some long grades, but we are only talking about 220 degrees. Once on level ground it cooled back down. I expected this moving all that weight though and doing what the truck was meant for. Running around without towing the temp gauge barely moves.

    But it's all good. I've seen small block chevys and fords as well as other brands have heating issues around here in Arizona. Just completely bizzar if you ask me. Leaving Goodguys with 2,000 cars creates a traffic jamb if you can imagine. So we idled in line for about 2 hours to get out.
    I'm in a stout 406 Ventura with a completely stock cooling system and never had an issue (it was only 80 degrees outside) while others were pulling out of line and puking antifreeze. I'm talking 30-40 cars just in the line I was in,,, I was shocked, beautiful cars too,, these people obviously have a problem that needs attended to if nearly 2000 others do just fine. I mean,,,it wasn't even hot outside for pete's sake.
    Maybe it's these few that talk and spread around the issue and make everyone think it's the cars fault because of it's make or model?
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 04-10-2012 at 09:16 AM.

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    I had a 1968 L-79 alum head 396/ 375 h.p. 4-spd, 4.10 rear SS Camaro, changed to an 1969 L-88 2nd design s/b, topped it to a 1971 set of cast iron big port open chamber heads, (no $$ for the alum!), Howards Cams at .600/ 620 lift and assembly help from the old guys at M&R Machine in Glendale, Ca. back in 1969, w/ a collection of broken M-22 and 21's all over my brothers house, and 4.88's and 11.5x28.5x 15 M & H Racemasters on 8" Corvette wheels, (I know, bad combo!), but in stock form, w/ the 396, it ran 14.0's at 107 to 109 mph. Lakewood bars and small 7" slicks and 3 transmissions later, it went 12.80's, then with the big engine, tunnel ram w/ 2x 660 center squirters, and camshaft, and all the machine work and assembly help, the car went 10.98 @ 131+, W/ just a good high rise and the Dominator carb, the car, w/ a better driver, went 9.92 at 139.97 best at Irwindale(?) in 1971.

    Missing all the smog, but I drove it w/ mufflers on the street. Brings back a lot of memories. Thanks for letting me have a forum to re-live the past!

    Just a note on the subject, the Chevelle model's were always quicker on street tires, but too heavy with the same engine, but the mechanical lifter 450 hp LS6, that thing was a monster stock!

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    Exalted Cyclops 67CamaroRSSS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    I thought old school GM's optioned 4:11's and Ford used 4:10's..
    GM 12 bolt gears are 41/10 (ring/pinion) for a 4.10 ratio while a Ford 9" used 37/9 for a 4.11 ratio... My current 67 has a 4.10 12 bolt while my 68 Mustang GT "S" code 390 ran 4.11's in the 9".
    Smittro likes this.

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    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    My bad, I guess that's what comes from only liking IRS rears..XD

    I don't pay attention to live axled rears, unless they make noise or leak.

    Other than that, I don't even look or care about them..lol

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