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307 or 305?!??!

This is a discussion on 307 or 305?!??! within the Classic Muscle forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; I currently have a 69 camaro with the original 307 in it. The 307 puts out 200HP and 300TQ and ...

  1. #1
    live fast, die young.
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    Red face 307 or 305?!??!

    I currently have a 69 camaro with the original 307 in it. The 307 puts out 200HP and 300TQ and was rebuilt 15k miles ago and has a 3 speed auto with it. The car does 0-60 in about 8 seconds, i want faster. I found a guy selling an 85 camaro IROC with a 305 and a 5 spd manual. The 305 puts out 190HP and 240TQ, is it worth it to swap the 307 for the 305 or not, im mostly in this for the speed increase, so let me know if it is a wise choice, or even if it will make any difference at all, thanks

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    I like the way yew tawlk. Ric's Avatar
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    DEFINITELY NOT.

    A 305 is the only engine I've heard of being given away for free. It's basically a weaker-block 350 with smaller pistons. The 307, on the other hand, has the same crank from a 327, yet has a smaller bore as well. While not a blazing demon on the street, the 307 is a better motor than the 305. It'll handle high rpms better due to the shorter stroke crank(3.25" vs the 305's 3.48"), so if you build it to go fast, you'll be better off building it for high-end power... just make sure to do it with stuff that'll hold up to the abuse.

    Think about this, too... Ford's 302 was a nasty little engine in the Fox-body Mustang, yet it only had 225 hp/300 ft-lbs. While there's no replacement for displacement, you have plenty of room for improvement in your 307.

  3. #3
    Ahh crap... needmorepwr's Avatar
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    I agree with Ric, stay away from the 305. If you don't want to stay with your 307, look for a 350 to use. The 350 is much easier to work with as it has all the common small block parts (pistons, rods, crank)

  4. #4
    billscamaros
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    the IROC motor is fuel injected?

    i would agree with the other posts .... the 305 isn't the best motor out there. but it would be a fuel injected motor, right? i kinda think that it would be worth the trouble to swap that in just to learn how to make the swap. it's a 69 camaro, you're a gearhead. it should be just one of several motors that you'll eventually have in the car. unless you can find a fuel injected 350 from another IROC car.

    just my two cents .......

  5. #5
    DisCrete
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69camarokid
    I currently have a 69 camaro with the original 307 in it. The 307 puts out 200HP and 300TQ and was rebuilt 15k miles ago and has a 3 speed auto with it. The car does 0-60 in about 8 seconds, i want faster. I found a guy selling an 85 camaro IROC with a 305 and a 5 spd manual. The 305 puts out 190HP and 240TQ, is it worth it to swap the 307 for the 305 or not, im mostly in this for the speed increase, so let me know if it is a wise choice, or even if it will make any difference at all, thanks

    Personally, I would say it is... you can go holy hell nutz on mods with a 305.

    I've heard rumors of people pushin 700hp without charging.

    the 305 is a very solid engine and easily modable... I don't know to much about the 307 so I couldn't give an accurate comparison between the 2.

    But I'd say disadvantage lil less hp and ft/lbs but... you get the 5 speed manual.

    It's up to you though.

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    230,55,147 91Z28's Avatar
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    I've seen some disgusting 305s. Put the 3.75 inch crank and you have a 335. Now you have a 3.76 bore X 3.75 stroke. A lot of thirdgen guys with 305s build these engines and they are quite good. I agree that a 350 is a much better place to start though. Displacement = Torque, but any SBC has great potential. I would think 307s are harder to find parts for as well. Let me see if I can find a link to a site that has 305 build tips.

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    http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/modthel03.html

    Here you go. This is for a TBI 305, but most of the stuff will still apply. All that differs is the intake manifold/FI system, so most of the stuff on there is sound info for a 305.

  8. #8
    carsnow
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    I say skip all the small block junk and bolt in a 454 when you get the cash. Otherwise you spend money on a 350 only to want more later.

  9. #9
    DisCrete
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    well if that's the case.. why not just get a 572CI bore it out to 9,000,000CI's



    realistically carsnow.. few people can afford a $30,000 engine.

    ZR1 engines are old news.. and still run $20,000-$30,000

    ever seen the price on a ZL-1 engine?

    454 BIG BLOCK 8.0L try about $19,000

  10. #10
    DisCrete
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    Bare block 305ci good thing to start your build on... only suggestion

    http://www.paceparts.com/index.asp?P...D&ProdID=22276

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69camarokid
    I currently have a 69 camaro with the original 307 in it. The 307 puts out 200HP and 300TQ and was rebuilt 15k miles ago and has a 3 speed auto with it. The car does 0-60 in about 8 seconds, i want faster. I found a guy selling an 85 camaro IROC with a 305 and a 5 spd manual. The 305 puts out 190HP and 240TQ, is it worth it to swap the 307 for the 305 or not, im mostly in this for the speed increase, so let me know if it is a wise choice, or even if it will make any difference at all, thanks
    I don't understand this, unless I'm reading it wrong.

    You want to swap your engine for one making LESS power and then ask if it will be faster?

    Less power = slower.

    For the money and hassel of swapping an engine, might as well make it worth while. Cheapest has to be 350, esp if its a late example it will have good bhp with plenty more available. Same goes for big blocks (454ci), some of the mid/late 70's examples where a bit pathetic but the potential is there for serious power. All else fails try and find a 2nd hand LS1 engine.

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    Future Super Trooper Mr. CarelessAndImprudent's Avatar
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    Know this thread is old, but just to let you know, my 69 has a built 327 backed by an M21 and it packs a good punch. The 3.08 rearend really drags on it though

  13. #13
    Teh Combustinator MarkuzLS1's Avatar
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    Stay away from the 305. You'll have to dump a bunch of cash into it to make it run with stock 350s. Trust me. I know from personal experience.

  14. #14
    69goody
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    Stay away from the from the 305. For that matter...stay away from anything made in the mid 80's except maybe a Grand National...That thing stinks of GM marketing. It's slightly better than a Camaro's V6. It was designed to make the someone feel like they got something more than ground effects and a cool logo.
    Stick with engines that were designed for power. I'm sure your 307 has some guts in it and could be tweaked generously with the old fashioned Cam, Heads, Bored and Stroked. However, when all that is said and done, you could seriously buy a HOT Crate Motor.
    I note that someone mentioned the BBC ZL-1....disregard that. It is an all aluminum limited production. Collector type crap...not realistic. A solid and powerful crate motor in Small Block form will run from $2000 to $6000. That includes the Goodwrench 350 with 290HP to the Edelbrock 350 w/ 410HP. On the Big Block side...realistically...you are looking from just under $6000 w/ 425-450HP in either a 454 or 502 CI.
    If it's fuel injection you're after...skip the tired old IROC and go for the aftermarket stuff from Edelbrock or Holley.
    The 307, in my eyes, is a better bet. But...it'll soak up the cash to get the horses out of it. Like the wise men said earlier...bide your time and go for a 350 (or maybe a crate motor)when you get the chance.
    Good Luck!

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    Modding is an Addiction bww3588's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisCrete
    well if that's the case.. why not just get a 572CI bore it out to 9,000,000CI's



    realistically carsnow.. few people can afford a $30,000 engine.

    ZR1 engines are old news.. and still run $20,000-$30,000

    ever seen the price on a ZL-1 engine?

    454 BIG BLOCK 8.0L try about $19,000
    454 is a 7.4L.

  16. #16
    DisCrete
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    Quote Originally Posted by bww3588
    454 is a 7.4L.
    Maybe a different type of ZL1

    I used to work on ZL1 engines and Viper engines at one of my jobs...

    The ones I worked on were supposedly 454 8.0L FI. I was told by a GM engineer they were used for nascar, and that it took him 2.5 years to design the FI system to compete with 4 barrel carbs

    I worked for Price Engineering... We recieved 350's and 454's from GM in excess of 16-30 /day from Unibore. Not including the Viper engines.

    We used to hone the cylinders to specifications stated by the manufacturer.

    My mom also had a 454 7.9L in her burban. I dunno... but, I can't find jack for an 8 Litre 454 engine.
    Last edited by DisCrete; 09-20-2005 at 10:21 PM.

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    Get a ZZ4, it is less than 4k. Then you can do this:

    http://picapic.net/media/Z9Q474

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    Future Super Trooper Mr. CarelessAndImprudent's Avatar
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    Now that's sweet

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    Quote Originally Posted by DisCrete
    Maybe a different type of ZL1

    I used to work on ZL1 engines and Viper engines at one of my jobs...

    The ones I worked on were supposedly 454 8.0L FI. I was told by a GM engineer they were used for nascar, and that it took him 2.5 years to design the FI system to compete with 4 barrel carbs

    I worked for Price Engineering... We recieved 350's and 454's from GM in excess of 16-30 /day from Unibore. Not including the Viper engines.

    We used to hone the cylinders to specifications stated by the manufacturer.

    My mom also had a 454 7.9L in her burban. I dunno... but, I can't find jack for an 8 Litre 454 engine.
    I think you need HELP!

    454 means 454 cubic inches.

    Now there are approx 61 cubic inches to the litre. So 454ci is equiverlant to 7.4 liters (at least for marketing purposes).

    So there is no way you can have a 7.9 or 8.0 454. You might have a stroked/bored 454 to then produce that capacity.

    It's mathamatics.

  20. #20
    Modding is an Addiction bww3588's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisCrete
    Maybe a different type of ZL1

    I used to work on ZL1 engines and Viper engines at one of my jobs...

    The ones I worked on were supposedly 454 8.0L FI. I was told by a GM engineer they were used for nascar, and that it took him 2.5 years to design the FI system to compete with 4 barrel carbs

    I worked for Price Engineering... We recieved 350's and 454's from GM in excess of 16-30 /day from Unibore. Not including the Viper engines.

    We used to hone the cylinders to specifications stated by the manufacturer.

    My mom also had a 454 7.9L in her burban. I dunno... but, I can't find jack for an 8 Litre 454 engine.
    the only ZL1's in my knowledge is the all aluminum 427 built in 1969 and put in very few COPO ZL1's. also the ZL1 code on current cars is a noise control package on 2 ton trucks.

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