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why does every one think big cams aren't streetable?

This is a discussion on why does every one think big cams aren't streetable? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; lets say i drop in a cam that has a 3,500 - 7,200 rpm range... i would go with nothing ...

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    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    Question why does every one think big cams aren't streetable?

    lets say i drop in a cam that has a 3,500 - 7,200 rpm range... i would go with nothing less than 4.10 gears in the ass end... 4.30 would be better... and it would still very driveavle on the highway...

    so i'm intrested in hearing what every ones big deal is...

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    NASCAR Go Fast, Turn Left ntimid8r's Avatar
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    Well....driveability is in the seat of the beholder. A big cam car that you have to keep high(er) rpm's to keep it running at idle or traffic speeds....can be annoying. Just my .02

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    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntimid8r View Post
    Well....driveability is in the seat of the beholder.


    Quote Originally Posted by ntimid8r View Post
    A big cam car that you have to keep high(er) rpm's to keep it running at idle or traffic speeds....can be annoying. Just my .02

    but that can be had through a tune... no need to hold the gas peddle down...

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    NASCAR Go Fast, Turn Left ntimid8r's Avatar
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    That's the problem.....if a cam flows air properly at high rpm then it can't properly flow it at low rpm. (In the example rpm range that you mentioned) That part is mechanics and nothing a tune can correct. That's how the cup cars in nascar are.....because they have to run at 9k rpm all day long they're built specific to operate efficiently at that rpm. But getting in and out of the garage area for practice....they sound like crap like the timings way off and such. Plus the heads and the valve over lap come into play with the air flow design too.

    So a cam that can operate in the 1500 to 5000 range is good for all types of driving but not as good for racing as a high rpm cam would be.

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    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntimid8r View Post
    That's the problem.....if a cam flows air properly at high rpm then it can't properly flow it at low rpm. (In the example rpm range that you mentioned) That part is mechanics and nothing a tune can correct. That's how the cup cars in nascar are.....because they have to run at 9k rpm all day long they're built specific to operate efficiently at that rpm. But getting in and out of the garage area for practice....they sound like crap like the timings way off and such. Plus the heads and the valve over lap come into play with the air flow design too.

    So a cam that can operate in the 1500 to 5000 range is good for all types of driving but not as good for racing as a high rpm cam would be.
    but if the idle is set higher ect ect...

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    NASCAR Go Fast, Turn Left ntimid8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
    but if the idle is set higher ect ect...
    Idle set @ 3,500k rpm??

    Brakes, brakes....need lots of brakes.

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    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    248/254 629/622 113 here.

    Whiplash. Idles at 925. Bucks a little under 2,000 RPM's. Certainly wouldn't want to daily drive it.
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    NASCAR Go Fast, Turn Left ntimid8r's Avatar
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    Wow Curtis, your valve springs must be pushing into the 300 seat pressure range for that cam profile.

    Yeah....for us mortals a mild cam is the way to go. I've found that FI is a good way to go to gain a ton more power yet still use a mild cam to make it. Plus easy on the springs. My new boost cam is 208/230 525/525 with a 121 center line.

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    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntimid8r View Post
    Wow Curtis, your valve springs must be pushing into the 300 seat pressure range for that cam profile.
    It's a baby.


    I plan on replacing the valvesprings every 15K miles.

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    Curtis is also stroked so that helps some too. You also have to think about the torque you're losing down low and mid range with those big cams on a stock cubed motor. I don't think no one says you can't daily drive the big cams, I'm sure people do. It's just a matter of how the car drives and for most people it'd be a pain in the ass. Could you imagine inching along in traffic with one of those monsters? It would get old quick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    Could you imagine inching along in traffic with one of those monsters? It would get old quick.
    Yes, yes it does.

    My cam acts like a 232'ish' cam would in a 346 though.

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    Senior Member Bottesini's Avatar
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    The stop and go traffic factor was one of the reasons I decided to go with more mild cam, but I also was interested in a complete power curve and not some that had a good peak. I have seen some people with a big cam that have done just fine though. Just a matter of what you want. I would think there are limits though

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    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Valve overlap is to blame for most driveability issues. Often, the cams need so much base airflow to idle, that once the car gets into cruise, it has way too much running airflow, since that is a constant offset applied to IAC. Get rid of all of the bucking and it won't idle. Tuning can go a long way here, but it can't fully mask the physical effect of too much valve overlap.

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    My car had been tuned and refined 3 times and some would say I still have a fairly mild cam. I have a 585-595; 230 236 cam and it is still not the most pleasant to drive on the street. Yes I am going with a bigger cam when I return home from deployment but thats because I plan on buying a small pickup for a DD. My cam would be rather annoying to DD because even though it has been tuned many times it STILL has isssues at an idle. My idle is dead steady at a stop but when I rev the car up or it goes into neutral after a WOT blast then it dips as low as 200 rpms and acts like it wants to die before it straightens itself out. Also you lose alot of feedback from your ECU when you have to tune the car for a large cam such as making a larger tolerance for things such as misfires. For example I wouldnt really get any feedback from the car if it developed a minor misfire and hurt my performance at this point. Good thing I know my car though.

    Another thing that Curtis touched on a bit is the increased maintenance that comes with a big cam. I am not positive on this statement but I am pretty sure a big overlap means increased spark plug changes. also if you go with a high lift cam you need to be prepared to replace valve springs at regular intervals and it would be my personal preference to replace my pushrods and check the timing chain at those intervals as well due to the stress of the higher rpms.

    For some people things like this arent a big deal but that depends on tolerance for noise and discomfort in your ride as well as how much time and money you have to properly keep th ecar maintained

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    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    i plan on getting at least a 228 cam... i'm thinking right now a custom ground cam is the onyl way for me... i want a fat ass 110 LSA cau8se i love that chop... i love to rev it and play the guessing game if it will stall out or not after the rev... my last engine (tap has it now) had a 224 with a 112 lsa... that was a fun cam!!! i want a little bigger this time and a 110 lsa...

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    For me....110-111 LSA is reserved for race cams or smaller cams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
    i plan on getting at least a 228 cam... i'm thinking right now a custom ground cam is the onyl way for me... i want a fat ass 110 LSA cau8se i love that chop... i love to rev it and play the guessing game if it will stall out or not after the rev... my last engine (tap has it now) had a 224 with a 112 lsa... that was a fun cam!!! i want a little bigger this time and a 110 lsa...


    won't be much of a game....it'll be a lopsided victory for "yes" Just messing with ya....you have an a4 or m6?

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    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos View Post
    For me....110-111 LSA is reserved for race cams or smaller cams.
    +1

    A tr224 on a 110lsa takes more time to tune than a thumping G5X3 on a 114! Even then it's more tempermental as well... and it's not like it gets better as they get bigger.

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    Slower Than a 3rd Gen juiced99ws6's Avatar
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    a 228 cam would not be to bad but I would definatly NOT get a 110 LSA. That is just asking for a cam to b eless streetable without the gains of a much larger cam in IMO. To each his own though. Goodluck with whatever you choose my freind

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    What do you think about a 223 227 637 640 110 LSA?.........it's not for a DD

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