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What are the BEST heads for my street/strip car??

This is a discussion on What are the BEST heads for my street/strip car?? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Guess i'll go with the patriot heads stage 3 is too big for a stock bottom end car correct? So ...

  1. #41
    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    Guess i'll go with the patriot heads stage 3 is too big for a stock bottom end car correct? So i guess the stage 2 ls6 6.0 is the better choice?

  2. #42
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    not to big if you're running a supercharger

  3. #43
    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    No not getting a supercharger... Going all N/A for now then down the road gettin Twin Turbo but for now just a mild/wild cam and heads thats why i'm trying to decide which heads are best....

  4. #44
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    the ls6 stage 2's are the better choice then, i got the 59cc for 11:1 compression, if premium gas by you is watered down or not readily avaliable go for the 64cc

  5. #45
    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    I can get 93 octane here and 94 also. If i really wanted to go crazy there is a gas station around me that sells 100+ octane

  6. #46
    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeeD4SpeeD
    I can get 93 octane here and 94 also. If i really wanted to go crazy there is a gas station around me that sells 100+ octane
    Based on the premium gas being availible which heads should i get???

  7. #47
    RedRamAir2000
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    lol the afr heads are the best heads out there. you my spend more but y put onther heads on.and then wish you got the afr heads when somone beats you by a car or so.see what i mean

  8. #48
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    the 59cc heads from patriot ls6 with stage 2 ls6.... the compression will make up for any single digit flow numbers the afr's will beat you at any lift. my car out performed afr heads with 63cc with the same mods and same cam because they are at 10.7 compression and sacrificed some torque. I will look up the exact difference here shortly... 1200 more bucks wouldn't put me ahead of the competition with afr heads running on the same mods... but ya know what that can go towards an LSX 90mm fast and nick william TB and pick up even more hp on my setup.

  9. #49
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    All of the Following are Identical Mods to Both Cars. The two cars are my 00 Firehawk and a 01 SS

    SLP 51013 Cam 234/228- degree cam with .576/.571 lift 113 centerline 112 LSA
    1.7 comp cams roller rockers
    UD Pulley
    ls6 intake
    ported and polished stock tb
    k&n lids
    carbon fiber driveshafts
    hawk "hooker long tubes and cat back" ORY
    SS "SLP long tubes and hooker catback" ORY
    Both M-6 with Stock 3.43 gears
    Hawk has 11:1 compression with the Patriot Stage 2 LS6 Heads, 59cc 2.02/1.57
    SS has 10.7 compression with AFR's 2.02/1.575 63.5cc

    The Results on the Same Dyno
    Hawk 415 RWHP 391 RWTQ SAE Corrected
    SS 398 RWHP 390 RWTQ SAE Corrected

    It should also be noted the SS Ran 100% 94 Octain Gas while being dyno tuned
    The Firehawk Ran with 93 Octain with 10% Ethanol
    The SS also had AC Compressior and Power Steering Removed

    Finally... Cost of AFR's $2205
    Cost of Patriots $1195

    Cost Difference $1,010.00 more for AFR's and 17 Less RWHP and 1 Less TQ even though he removed the AC Compressor and Power Steering


    I could of probably gotten even better numbers with 94 octain, no compressor and no power steering. It was also humid and 90 something degrees in the shop when I had it tuned so timing probably could of been advanced further with better conditions netting a few more HP there too.

    In conclusion, I win with Patriots and the guy went out to get a 90mm TB and LSX to get a head of me in the end, but with the money I saved getting Patriots I could do that and win the next dyno battle. If the most expensive is always best and that were true, we would have no competition in our economy. Plain and simple, the cost of building Patriots is just cheaper, not because it sacrafices quality or ups the price of their heads a few hundred because they've mastered the flow number war.

    Sarge or EPP, if you get around to reading this my confusion on if I really had those heads was cleared up. Patriot had been swamped with machining some new ones so they took some off the shelf that were for a private customer without the engraving

    Finally AFR was by MadSeason
    Last edited by MadSeason; 11-17-2005 at 04:24 AM.

  10. #50
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    check out cartek heads. I bought the stage 3 heads with the stage 2 cam. Looking to get my car into the 11s. Give them a call before you decide.

  11. #51
    RedRamAir2000
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    lol whatever you say dude i work at vincis high permormance.dyno cars all day.the afr is a better head and what if down the road you what a supercharger.10.7 compressoin will kill that.

  12. #52
    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadSeason
    All of the Following are Identical Mods to Both Cars. The two cars are my 00 Firehawk and a 01 SS

    SLP 51013 Cam 234/228- degree cam with .576/.571 lift 113 centerline 112 LSA
    1.7 comp cams roller rockers
    UD Pulley
    ls6 intake
    ported and polished stock tb
    k&n lids
    carbon fiber driveshafts
    hawk "hooker long tubes and cat back" ORY
    SS "SLP long tubes and hooker catback" ORY
    Both M-6 with Stock 3.43 gears
    Hawk has 11:1 compression with the Patriot Stage 2 LS6 Heads, 59cc 2.02/1.57
    SS has 10.7 compression with AFR's 2.02/1.575 63.5cc

    The Results on the Same Dyno
    Hawk 415 RWHP 391 RWTQ SAE Corrected
    SS 398 RWHP 390 RWTQ SAE Corrected

    It should also be noted the SS Ran 100% 94 Octain Gas while being dyno tuned
    The Firehawk Ran with 93 Octain with 10% Ethanol
    The SS also had AC Compressior and Power Steering Removed

    Finally... Cost of AFR's $2205
    Cost of Patriots $1195

    Cost Difference $1,010.00 more for AFR's and 17 Less RWHP and 1 Less TQ even though he removed the AC Compressor and Power Steering


    I could of probably gotten even better numbers with 94 octain, no compressor and no power steering. It was also humid and 90 something degrees in the shop when I had it tuned so timing probably could of been advanced further with better conditions netting a few more HP there too.

    In conclusion, I win with Patriots and the guy went out to get a 90mm TB and LSX to get a head of me in the end, but with the money I saved getting Patriots I could do that and win the next dyno battle. If the most expensive is always best and that were true, we would have no competition in our economy. Plain and simple, the cost of building Patriots is just cheaper, not because it sacrafices quality or ups the price of their heads a few hundred because they've mastered the flow number war.

    Sarge or EPP, if you get around to reading this my confusion on if I really had those heads was cleared up. Patriot had been swamped with machining some new ones so they took some off the shelf that were for a private customer without the engraving

    Finally AFR was by MadSeason
    Excellant review!!! It appears that the patriots are better then the AFRs and well worth the money... I'm glad this holds true and that there are dyno tests to proove it which make it better... Think i'm going to stay with the patriots not only because of the price but because of performance also..

  13. #53
    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    So since i'm going to go with the patriots now i have a question or two...

    Are they the same weight as stock since their aluminum?

    Would the Patriot LQ9 6.0 - STAGE 2 (2.02/1.57/72cc) be a good choice for a N/A car considering its a 6.0 with a pretty wild cam (not insanely wild) and all supporting bolt ons or would another stage of the patriots be better such as Patriot LS6 5.7 - STAGE 3 (2.08/1.60/68cc)? Or am i just getting too big with the heads???

    Finally with all supporting bolt ons, gears, decently wild cam plus these heads with a monster tune net me over 500 RWHP??
    Last edited by NeeD4SpeeD; 11-17-2005 at 08:14 AM.

  14. #54
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeeD4SpeeD
    So since i'm going to go with the patriots now i have a question or two...

    Are they the same weight as stock since their aluminum?

    Would the Patriot LQ9 6.0 - STAGE 2 (2.02/1.57/72cc) be a good choice for a N/A car considering its a 6.0 with a pretty wild cam (not insanely wild) and all supporting bolt ons or would another stage of the patriots be better such as Patriot LS6 5.7 - STAGE 3 (2.08/1.60/68cc)? Or am i just getting too big with the heads???

    Finally with all supporting bolt ons, gears, decently wild cam plus these heads with a monster tune net me over 500 RWHP??
    ok, yes the ls1 and ls6 are same weight as stockers, LQ9, i'm not sure but I would stick with LS6 style heads and vear away from the LQ9's unless you got bigger cubes or FI. Give Gunnar a call over at patriot or shoot him an e-mail. He'll help pick out the best heads for you to match your cam. IMO if you want Nos or N/A on the stock cubes, go with the heads I mentioned earlier. Biggest isn't always best.

  15. #55
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRamAir2000
    lol whatever you say dude i work at vincis high permormance.dyno cars all day.the afr is a better head and what if down the road you what a supercharger.10.7 compressoin will kill that.
    Well if down the road I want a supercharger I'll go with a 9.0 Compression on Patriots LQ9 Heads. BTW I have 11:1 not 10.7 that was the AFR heads I mentioned. I know a SC would kill it but I'm not going that route with this engine.

    Have you dynoed a car running the same mods with the head manufactures being the only variable? Even for a 1k difference in price I'm sure you wouldn't see anything worth jumping on the AFR bandwagon. The only thing that will shut me up about patriots is if someone experiments with my car, throws AFR's on it as it sits with a before and after dyno, and I don't see a more than a 15-20 HP/TQ difference for 1K I'll be sold

  16. #56
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    Guys...I am not against the Patriots. At all. They are what I am going to be running.
    But only because I couldn't afford the AFR's.

    It depends on MANY things. Tune, every car is different, intakes restricting both heads, etc....

    Your Hawk made more power. Awesome. The Patriot heads are GOOD heads. You would make even more power if you put on AFR's though.
    And something seems up with the SS if it can't make 400 RWHP with heads and a decent sized cam.

    If the lower priced heads were better heads, you think AFR would really continue to sell their lower quality heads for damn near double?? Doubt it.

    And yes...the Stage 2 should go on the stock cubed motor. The only difference between Patriot Stage II and Stage III is the valve size. Bigger bore for the Stage III.

    On the stock cubes I don't think there would be more than a 15-20 RWHP gain with AFR's over the Patriots. Unless you have the best intake and the biggest cam. Then maybe a touch more.
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    1999 Pontiac Trans Am WS.6 #1747 SOLD
    531.1 RWHP 481.3 FT/Pounds all motor.

  17. #57
    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos
    Guys...I am not against the Patriots. At all. They are what I am going to be running.
    But only because I couldn't afford the AFR's.

    It depends on MANY things. Tune, every car is different, intakes restricting both heads, etc....

    Your Hawk made more power. Awesome. The Patriot heads are GOOD heads. You would make even more power if you put on AFR's though.
    And something seems up with the SS if it can't make 400 RWHP with heads and a decent sized cam.

    If the lower priced heads were better heads, you think AFR would really continue to sell their lower quality heads for damn near double?? Doubt it.

    And yes...the Stage 2 should go on the stock cubed motor. The only difference between Patriot Stage II and Stage III is the valve size. Bigger bore for the Stage III.

    On the stock cubes I don't think there would be more than a 15-20 RWHP gain with AFR's over the Patriots. Unless you have the best intake and the biggest cam. Then maybe a touch more.

    Well im glad everyone is chiming in with their opinions it's really helping me make my decision.... I wouldn't expect patriots to be better then AFRs because obviously the AFRs have a $2100 price tag for a reason but to coem within 10-20RWHP for $1100 cheaper i think their well worth it. I'll have a pretty wild cam in the car... Most likely the TR236/230 .602/.575 112 LSA or going alittle lighter because of drivabliity the TR224/224 .563/.563 112 LSA so i want the heads to mesh well with these types of cams... And because of the price and other mods i could buy with the huge difference in price i guess patriots will most likely be the choise unless someone can proove me otherwise!!

  18. #58
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    I believe the only reason I won out on that is because I had better compression and that's what I'm going for, High Compression, N/A, on stock cubes. Torque was still basically Dead on the same and that's what wins the races. That 1k would be put to better use else where than with AFR for my application

  19. #59
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    heads


  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fastcamarosss11
    Stock heads are probably a better choice.
    Hell...knowing SLP they probably ARE stock heads.

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