Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 63

Valvoline SynPower officially kicks Mobil 1s A$$

This is a discussion on Valvoline SynPower officially kicks Mobil 1s A$$ within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Or did they? Below, some compelling data that may be more than just marketing hype. You be the judge… ASTM ...

  1. #1

    Post Valvoline SynPower officially kicks Mobil 1s A$$

    Or did they?

    Below, some compelling data that may be more than just marketing hype.

    You be the judge…









    ASTM D 6891 Sequence IVA Test pdf





    Jobbers World Online Brief – Dec. 11, 2008


    Jobbers World Online Brief – Dec. 13, 2008


    Lube Report – Dec. 17, 2008


    This information has been sending some shock waves through out the Internet community. Thought I’d pass it on to all you here on LS1.com. One thing is certain. The synthetic motor oil market is heating up.

    CompSyn
    Last edited by CompSyn; 12-23-2008 at 11:08 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member karpetcm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Tujunga, CA
    Posts
    1,646

    White
    01 Camaro 6speed

    I dont know if its any good but i use it on all my cars and ive never had any issues, i used to use Mobil 1 but it burned oil too much with Valvoline i never have that issue and thats the only oil i always will use.

  3. #3
    Impounded
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Beaver Dam KY
    Posts
    7,746

    79 T/A -91 Firebird
    1998 Trans Am -Oynx Black

    Wow. I bet my dad will be glad to here this. Hes been a valvoline fan for years.

  4. #4
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Texas Department of Corrections
    Posts
    18,129
    Retired Outlaw Sum Bitch

    You have to take a hard look at the test they reference for all their claims. It is not a test that is "embraced" to reflect actual real world wear by the tribology community for sure....it is a test (pass/fail) for GF-4 that test cam lobe wear in a low load/low temp taxi cab type environment. Part of the new SN requirements will be Phos retention etc. Valvoline has made changes to their formula to meet the new SN requirements.... all the others will also. Is it better oil? Nope. Will everybody else make adjustments? Yup. I just love marketing people.....did you notice in the one lil graph that boldly states Valvoline is 4X better than Mobil1 there are no numbers to reference? Just a picture graph. Truth is the numbers are so minuscule it is ridiculous and very misleading. Royal Purple must have loaned Valvoline some of their marketing guys.
    Last edited by Sarge; 12-28-2008 at 02:36 AM.

  5. #5
    Member AB'sLs1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    lititz, PA
    Age
    27
    Posts
    228

    red
    1998 Z28

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    You have to take a hard look at the test they reference for all their claims. It is not a test that is "embraced" to reflect actual real world wear by the tribology community for sure....it is a test (pass/fail) for GF-4 that test cam lobe wear in a low load/low temp taxi cab type environment. Part of the new SN requirements will be Phos retention etc. Valvoline has made changes to their formula to meet the new SN requirements.... all the others will also. Is it better oil? Nope. Will everybody else make adjustments? Yup. I just love marketing people.....did you notice in the one lil graph that bodly states Valvoline is 4X beter than Mobil1 there are no numbers to reference? Just a picture graph. Truth is the numbers are so miniscule it is ridiculaous and very misleading. Royal Purple must have loaned Valvoline some of their marketing guys.

    So what do u think Sarge is mobil 1 still one of the best off the shelf oils u can buy or has the formulated valvoline taken its place?

  6. #6

    Post Current ILSAC GF-4/API (SM) standards

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    You have to take a hard look at the test they reference for all their claims. It is not a test that is "embraced" to reflect actual real world wear by the tribology community for sure....it is a test (pass/fail) for GF-4 that test cam lobe wear in a low load/low temp taxi cab type environment. Part of the new SN requirements will be Phos retention etc. Valvoline has made changes to their formula to meet the new SN requirements.... all the others will also. Is it better oil? Nope. Will everybody else make adjustments? Yup. I just love marketing people.....did you notice in the one lil graph that bodly states Valvoline is 4X beter than Mobil1 there are no numbers to reference? Just a picture graph. Truth is the numbers are so miniscule it is ridiculaous and very misleading. Royal Purple must have loaned Valvoline some of their marketing guys.
    I agree that you have to be cautious when looking at bold marketing claims likes these from Valvoline. But at the same time, I find it really entertaining to see these two major players in the oil industry war it out.

    Also, in all fairness, the dumbed down version of the Valvolines IVA wear chart which doesnt show numbers has a more scientific version with actual numbers shown. That version of the chart is provided in Thomas Smiths letter from Ashland. Notice how both charts look almost identical even though the one that Joe blow consumer sees has no numbers on it.

    Further, as per ILSAC GF-4 and API (SM) with energy conserving requirements as of March 2005, the Sequence IVA test is part of this requirement. The Sequence IVA test has an average cam wear parameter of 90 microns maximum. According to Valvolines findings, which have not been officially rebutted by Exxon Mobil, Mobil 1 5W-30 showed cam wear of double that of the current API (SM) maximum, at 180 microns. Notice that Valvoline claims only 20 microns of average cam wear. If these numbers could be verified, Valvoline could in reality say that their SynPower provides 9 X better wear protection than Mobil 1.

    Thomas Smiths letter points out, as of the date of Ashlands testing, Mobil 1 5W-30 did not pass this current API (SM) requirement. Whether or not one deems the Sequence IVA test as one that reflects actual real world conditions is debatable. Never the less, that test is indeed part of current ILSAC GF-4 and API (SM) testing parameters. If a consumer spends their hard earned money on any lubricant that supports the API energy conserving starburst, that lubricant should indeed meet the minimum oil performance standards.

    See also ILSAC Performance Category GF-4 Summary pdf.

    Finally just to be clear, Im not advocating the use of Valvoline products as this would be a conflict of interest for me. But having a continued vested interest in the oil industry as a whole, I believe that consumers should be alerted to current industry news of this sort. Time will tell if Valvoline SynPower will be a strong competitor within the oil industry. Recently, UOAs of Valvoline SynPower do show satisfactory wear results. In addition, I would hope that in the light of Exxon Mobils record breaking earnings, it would be a company that produces products that at least meet minimum performance requirements.

    Exxon Mobil's revenue for 2007 was 404.552 Billion
    Exxon Mobil's NET income for 2007 was 40.610 Billion

    Ashland's revenue for 2006 was 7.233 Billion
    Ashland's NET income for 2006 was 170 Million

    CompSyn

  7. #7
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    I have used Valvoline exclusively for 30 years. Since having several flat tappet cam cars in the stable, camshaft wear is a concern for me as of late.
    I have used their synthetic in all the 3rd and 4th gens we have had with roller tappets including both current 4th gens.
    In the older flat tappet cars I have always used their racing oil brand (non synthetic) that has a high zinc content. With all the talk of Zinc slowly dissappearing or being reduced, even in the racing brands, I switched all cars over to Synthetic about 2 years ago hoping for more protection with no issues on the flat tappet cars so far.
    I am also currently using Rotella 15w-40 in one of the older flat tappet cars just for giggles since the diesel oil still has a high content of zinc. As a matter of fact I just broke a flat tappet camshaft in on this stuff with good results so far. Plan to run it in this particular car for a while to see what happens.
    I'm not really sold on any one brand of oil, just mainly concerned with zinc.

  8. #8
    Member AB'sLs1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    lititz, PA
    Age
    27
    Posts
    228

    red
    1998 Z28

    why the concern in zinc??i heard one of my friends talking to me the other day who uses and oil with a high zinc content for his 64 fairlane with a soild lifter cam ...so whats the story with zinc just out of curiosity??

  9. #9
    F BODYS RULE maxwax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    GEORGIA
    Posts
    579

    NBM
    2001 CAMARO

    Quote Originally Posted by AB'sLs1 View Post
    why the concern in zinc??i heard one of my friends talking to me the other day who uses and oil with a high zinc content for his 64 fairlane with a soild lifter cam ...so whats the story with zinc just out of curiosity??
    On todays roller cam engines zinc is not as crucial , but on engines with non roller tappets the zinc is added to oil to harden the camshaft so it wont wear as quickly, but the zinc is harder on emission controlled vehicles and related parts.

    When I build an engine I use an oil or oil additive loaded with zinc for break in and then usually change over to a synthetic oil.

  10. #10
    Member AB'sLs1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    lititz, PA
    Age
    27
    Posts
    228

    red
    1998 Z28

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwax View Post
    On todays roller cam engines zinc is not as crucial , but on engines with non roller tappets the zinc is added to oil to harden the camshaft so it wont wear as quickly, but the zinc is harder on emission controlled vehicles and related parts.

    When I build an engine I use an oil or oil additive loaded with zinc for break in and then usually change over to a synthetic oil.
    that makes alot of sense and thats a good break in idea thanks!

  11. #11
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Quote Originally Posted by AB'sLs1 View Post
    why the concern in zinc??i heard one of my friends talking to me the other day who uses and oil with a high zinc content for his 64 fairlane with a soild lifter cam ...so whats the story with zinc just out of curiosity??
    Zincodichromate I believe it's called,,,,is what gives oil it's lubricity or alot of it's lubricating property. Without it flat tappet camshafts have been failing. This is nothing new and has been going on for a couple of years now.
    The cam manufactures were the first to bring this to light as all the oil companies were hush hush about it at first.
    Now that it's out in the open alot of us old timers are looking for oils with Zinc properties for the flat tappet cam engines. It is still retained in the diesel oils since the regulations on emissions at this time was not applying to the diesel powered vehicles. Now that they are starting to put converters on deisel trucks it's only a matter of time before they attack the zinc content in the diesel oil as well.

    I use some form of high zinc content in all my cars as I don't believe it's just relegated to flat tappet only engines. If it's good for them it's good for all. There are many other moving parts that are scuff or metal to metal (non rollerized) such as piston skirts/cylinder walls, etc...GM makes an oil additive called EOS. About $12 for a small bottle.
    When I break an engine in, I use high content zinc oil as well as add a bottle of EOS for added protection. You just can't be too carefull anymore.

    There are also other oil manufactures out there that are making oil specifically for older muscle cars with high zinc. There is a restoration shop up the street from me that sells it by the case. I'll look up the brand name. It's been around for a little while now and has so far proven to work well. It's actually cheaper to by this oil by the case than to by a case of regular oil and add the EOS to it.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 12-25-2008 at 11:03 AM.

  12. #12
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Found it. It's made by Hicks oil company and they call it their Muscle Car oil. It has a high Zinc content from what I gather of 1400 ppm.

    Also from what I understand from Comp Cams whom I've dealt with for all my custom cam grinds that about 1300 ppm of zinc/phosphorous is a safe margin for a flat tappet camshaft. Many oils are dipping well below this level so I have to be carefull what I buy.

    Now from what I have been reading Mobil 1 5w-30 full synthetic has 1300 ppm. Whether true or not I don't know, but if Valvoline is now kicking it's ass as stated in this post,,,,I would think Valvoline would have even more zinc???

    Especially since Valvoline is advertising it's synthetic oil as having the all important zinc now,,,yet I cannot find anywhere as to how much.
    Zinc is never listed on any bottles of all brands I have looked at as to how much or ppm.

  13. #13
    Senior Member karpetcm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Tujunga, CA
    Posts
    1,646

    White
    01 Camaro 6speed

    what about oill additives like Zmax can i on my next oil change put in Valvoline Synthetic 10w40 and add a bottle of Zmax to the oil. What does Zmax exactly do i know the basics but how much more Zinc does it have and how benificial is it really

  14. #14
    Member BADBLUE02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Smyrna DE
    Age
    45
    Posts
    373

    blue
    2002 WS6 Trans Am

    Most of the oil you buy off the shelf today only has about 850 ppm of zinc. Since I read about the cutbacks at the oil company a couple of years ago, I started sending the oil out for UOA's. Most came back with bad wear numbers for copper (170-180 ppm). These included both M1 and Valvoline. The latest test was on Quaker State Q 10-30. I was suprised the copper number was down to 79ppm. Still high, but better. I spoke with a rep at QS and was told they have a "secret" ingredient they won't reveal to the public. This time around I'm trying M1 5-40 diesel. The zinc and phos. numbers are supposed to be around 1400 ppm each.

  15. #15
    Junior Member red99camaross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    alberta
    Posts
    96

    red
    99 camaro ss

    OMG

    can this muscle car oil be benificial to my 4th gen ?????

  16. #16
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Texas Department of Corrections
    Posts
    18,129
    Retired Outlaw Sum Bitch

    Guys I would not get too awfully caught up in this zddp add pack stuff......there are some excellent wear additives these days that we are seeing better results than anything else.....ever.....I will also add many of the cam wear due lack or lowered zddp actually turned out to be shitty metal from Chinese cam folks reselling under brand names here in the USA.....now I agree old school zddp packs work good/better than some SM rated oils due film strength and this has led many on jihad to get the highest levels of zddp they can find...and many manufacturers have jumped on this hysteria....
    bottom line is for break in it is good to utilize some heavier zddp add packs.....but after break in....any SM rated oil will deliver great UOA's....

  17. #17
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Texas Department of Corrections
    Posts
    18,129
    Retired Outlaw Sum Bitch

    Quote Originally Posted by BADBLUE02 View Post
    Most of the oil you buy off the shelf today only has about 850 ppm of zinc. Since I read about the cutbacks at the oil company a couple of years ago, I started sending the oil out for UOA's. Most came back with bad wear numbers for copper (170-180 ppm). These included both M1 and Valvoline. The latest test was on Quaker State Q 10-30. I was suprised the copper number was down to 79ppm. Still high, but better. I spoke with a rep at QS and was told they have a "secret" ingredient they won't reveal to the public. This time around I'm trying M1 5-40 diesel. The zinc and phos. numbers are supposed to be around 1400 ppm each.
    On your higher copper UOA's I am curious what your fuel dilution/silicon was.....usually higher copper is a direct sign of poor filtration not oil...

  18. #18
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Texas Department of Corrections
    Posts
    18,129
    Retired Outlaw Sum Bitch

    Quote Originally Posted by karpetcm View Post
    what about oill additives like Zmax can i on my next oil change put in Valvoline Synthetic 10w40 and add a bottle of Zmax to the oil. What does Zmax exactly do i know the basics but how much more Zinc does it have and how benificial is it really
    Takes money out of your pocket. That's about it.

  19. #19
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Quote Originally Posted by BADBLUE02 View Post
    This time around I'm trying M1 5-40 diesel. The zinc and phos. numbers are supposed to be around 1400 ppm each.
    Yes all the diesel oil is this way for the time being. I have and still use Rotella in one car which has 1400 ppm. My father uses it in his 69 goat as well, even after the new engine was installed with a roller camshaft. Many other muscle car owners I know have switched to it with good results.

  20. #20
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Quote Originally Posted by karpetcm View Post
    what about oill additives like Zmax can i on my next oil change put in Valvoline Synthetic 10w40 and add a bottle of Zmax to the oil. What does Zmax exactly do i know the basics but how much more Zinc does it have and how benificial is it really
    I have never used Zmax. I have only used GM's EOS which is another zinc package additive. And even then I have only used it on a brand new engine to break in,,,and the oil is only in there for a short time, camshaft break in and maybe a few pulls on the dyno. After that I have always switched to regular oil changes without the EOS and had no problems. Never used it on a regular basis. That would make for expensive oil changes considering there are oils out there with enough PPM of zinc to get the job done without adding any.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

LinkBacks (?)

  1. 09-05-2016, 07:06 PM
  2. 02-15-2016, 02:56 AM
  3. 11-04-2014, 08:09 AM
  4. 09-02-2014, 10:19 PM
  5. 12-29-2013, 12:33 PM
  6. 02-26-2013, 08:48 AM
  7. 10-24-2012, 04:28 AM
  8. 09-17-2012, 04:47 PM
  9. 08-18-2012, 01:35 PM
  10. 06-27-2012, 03:02 AM
  11. 06-07-2012, 11:35 AM
  12. 06-03-2012, 12:36 PM
  13. 05-05-2012, 11:56 PM
  14. 04-15-2012, 10:09 AM
  15. 04-11-2012, 11:25 AM
  16. 04-03-2012, 11:32 PM
  17. 03-10-2012, 11:32 AM
  18. 02-07-2012, 03:58 PM
  19. 01-28-2012, 09:14 AM
  20. 01-04-2012, 02:50 AM
  21. 12-30-2011, 05:26 AM
  22. 11-27-2011, 10:33 PM
  23. 11-11-2011, 12:32 PM
  24. 10-03-2011, 02:45 PM
  25. 09-29-2011, 04:45 AM
  26. 09-18-2011, 10:15 PM
  27. 09-15-2011, 12:01 AM
  28. 08-28-2011, 08:23 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 300,000 mile engine guarantee from valvoline......
    By Murder after Midnight in forum Almost Anything Goes
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 09-06-2010, 09:45 PM
  2. LS1.COM should buy Valvoline
    By Sarge in forum Almost Anything Goes
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-07-2009, 07:06 AM
  3. Valvoline VR1:opinions
    By karpetcm in forum Internal Engine
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-17-2009, 05:49 PM
  4. Valvoline Street Legal?
    By LIGHTNINGMCQUEEN in forum General Help
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-15-2008, 12:12 PM
  5. Valvoline SynPower $.99 a Quart!
    By lonewolf37 in forum General Help
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-03-2007, 09:37 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •