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Two problems after my H/C/I Swap

This is a discussion on Two problems after my H/C/I Swap within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; 1. I didn't think this one was going to be THAT big of a problem, but after shreading a brand ...

  1. #1
    Sold: LS1 '85 El Camino ls1camino's Avatar
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    Two problems after my H/C/I Swap

    1. I didn't think this one was going to be THAT big of a problem, but after shreading a brand new belt, I think I need to correct it. The Powerbond 25% Underdrive Crank Pulley I installed sits about quarter of an inch forward of the rest of the pulleys. This causes the belt to sit diagonally and eventually rip the belt to shreads. I thought that I had not tightened the crank bolt all the way, so instead of risking breaking the POS GM bolt off in the crank, I splurged the $26 for the ARP crank bolt. I tightened the bolt down all the way I could with my torque wrench and the pulley did not move any further towards the engine. I'm thinking that because I put a double timing chain on, which required spacers for the oil pump, the pulley is contacting the pump. Here are the solutions I can think of: 1. Remove the Underdrive Pulley and reinstall the stock pulley (I'm not entirely sure if the stock pulley is shorter or not) or 2. Take the underdrive pulley off and grind down the neck of the pulley to make it shorter so it can slide further down the crankshaft.

    2. This is kind of major...the car won't start. I have 50-55psi at the rails and I'm obviously getting air. The car is turning over and some cylinders will fire once in awhile, but will not start. I can smell the gas and see smoke coming out of the headers. When I did the swap, I put new NGK55 plugs and the wires are not even a year old. I've also checked the ignition relay, it's fine. I also might want to mention that the car has about an hour of idle time and another 15 minutes of highway drive time, so it has been ran since the swap.

    Any ideas or suggestions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ls1camino View Post
    2. Take the underdrive pulley off and grind down the neck of the pulley to make it shorter so it can slide further down the crankshaft.
    Thats what I would do if i was in your shoes. But I wouldnt do that for sure until I knew that there was nothing else that could be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by ls1camino View Post
    2. I also might want to mention that the car has about an hour of idle time and another 15 minutes of highway drive time, so it has been ran since the swap.

    Any ideas or suggestions?
    So the car started and idled just fine and then one day it wouldnt start???

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    Member TACE02's Avatar
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    hmmm,

    not really a clue on either, especially #1, but if I am not mistaken they should all be direct bolt-ons so no grinding needed. On #2, not a tech or anything, but what about cam shaft sensor, 02 sensor, knock sensor, or associated wiring... kinda sounds like a sensor problem possibly, if there is no ignition or sporadic ignition. Or not sure what a ground issue would cause, but another idea.

    If nothing else, you could always call a LSX based speed shop and ask for suggestions. I am sure most of em have seen or heard of similar if not exact problems before. I know there are a few of em that sponsor this site, maybe they will chime in. Or just PM one of em directly, for example Frost could possibly have a direction for you to go in.

    But with the issue you are having with the pulley, that may lead you to what is wrong overall. May have to tear into the timing cover again.

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    was there any kind of tune done on the car after the swap or is that hour of idle time without a tune? If it is pull a couple of your plugs and see if they're fouled. Doesn't take long to foul plugs when it's running that rich at idle like that.

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    I would change your plugs. I had a similar issue, I even checked each individual plug and could see spark on all of them. As soon as I changed them, she started right up!
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    Unbiased Opinion 67rsss's Avatar
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    Some double roller chains will require you have the balancer shortened. Should be done by a machinist.

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    did you use the slp dr chain and pump? I did and had the same problem. The center peice of the the pump needs to be put on the crank BEFORE the oil pump bolts on. There is no clear direction in the slp kit so i called them and they said it didnt matter. Bullshit the pulley wont go in all the way if you have on backwards. I had to tear mine all apart to fix it.

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    Why I didnt use a double roller.

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    LS2 timing chain for the win!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ls1camino View Post
    1. I didn't think this one was going to be THAT big of a problem, but after shreading a brand new belt, I think I need to correct it. The Powerbond 25% Underdrive Crank Pulley I installed sits about quarter of an inch forward of the rest of the pulleys. This causes the belt to sit diagonally and eventually rip the belt to shreads. I thought that I had not tightened the crank bolt all the way, so instead of risking breaking the POS GM bolt off in the crank, I splurged the $26 for the ARP crank bolt. I tightened the bolt down all the way I could with my torque wrench and the pulley did not move any further towards the engine. I'm thinking that because I put a double timing chain on, which required spacers for the oil pump, the pulley is contacting the pump. Here are the solutions I can think of: 1. Remove the Underdrive Pulley and reinstall the stock pulley (I'm not entirely sure if the stock pulley is shorter or not) or 2. Take the underdrive pulley off and grind down the neck of the pulley to make it shorter so it can slide further down the crankshaft.



    2. This is kind of major...the car won't start. I have 50-55psi at the rails and I'm obviously getting air. The car is turning over and some cylinders will fire once in awhile, but will not start. I can smell the gas and see smoke coming out of the headers. When I did the swap, I put new NGK55 plugs and the wires are not even a year old. I've also checked the ignition relay, it's fine. I also might want to mention that the car has about an hour of idle time and another 15 minutes of highway drive time, so it has been ran since the swap.

    Any ideas or suggestions?
    Any luck getting it started yet?

  11. #11
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    Update:

    1. The pulley needs to be machined. People on tech said they had the same problem and machined the pulley down .300" and it worked fine. I'm going to believe them cause it looks like the pulley is between .250" and .500" father outward then it should be.

    2. The spark plugs are fouled, hence the not starting. I ordered new ones (NGK-55s), but I'm not going to put them on until I get my new headers...going to replace them at the same time, makes it so much easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ls1camino View Post
    Update:

    1. The pulley needs to be machined. People on tech said they had the same problem and machined the pulley down .300" and it worked fine. I'm going to believe them cause it looks like the pulley is between .250" and .500" father outward then it should be.

    2. The spark plugs are fouled, hence the not starting. I ordered new ones (NGK-55s), but I'm not going to put them on until I get my new headers...going to replace them at the same time, makes it so much easier.
    BAMMMM......I think that is a total of two that I have gotten right now! I should be a mechanic....
    Sorry, I get excited easy.

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    was there any kind of tune done on the car after the swap or is that hour of idle time without a tune? If it is pull a couple of your plugs and see if they're fouled. Doesn't take long to foul plugs when it's running that rich at idle like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by BADASS2000SS View Post
    I would change your plugs. I had a similar issue, I even checked each individual plug and could see spark on all of them. As soon as I changed them, she started right up!
    Quote Originally Posted by BADASS2000SS View Post
    BAMMMM......I think that is a total of two that I have gotten right now! I should be a mechanic....
    Sorry, I get excited easy.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    Sorry Orion...you were correct also! You are going to have to congradulate yourself though like I did....you cant expect me to do it for you!

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    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    He has a base file for the car, and it should definitely start and idle without plug fouling.

    I hate those double rollers' I avoid them like the plague... there is nothing wrong with the (cheaper) LS2 chain and setup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    He has a base file for the car, and it should definitely start and idle without plug fouling.
    haha...you crack me up.

    I hate those double rollers' I avoid them like the plague... there is nothing wrong with the (cheaper) LS2 chain and setup.[/QUOTE]

    The reason I got the double roller was because it was adjustable. The reason I got an adjustable one is because I was on the verge of zero PTV clearance (milled heads), so I wanted the option of retarding the cam a little bit if need be. I ended up having enough PTV clearance, so I got lucky in that aspect.

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    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    So you are down for machining? The other option is swapping that timing set...

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    Sold: LS1 '85 El Camino ls1camino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    So you are down for machining? The other option is swapping that timing set...
    Actually, I just got the time today to drop the pulley off at the machine shop. It should be ready tomorrow...and I won't have time to put it on till Sunday

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