TSP MS3 and MS4 Cams?

**Sunset T/A** · 09-02-2007, 01:35 PM

What's your input on these cams from people who have them? Good or Bad?
Thinking about them for my 02 T/A. What gains with all bolt-ons and mods?
Thanks for your help.

**slims00ls1z28** · 09-06-2007, 11:07 AM

MS3 here love it. Haven't run it at the track yet but plan on taking it to the track tuesday. Current best 13.2@106 now I have LS6, pacesetters, 3600 stall, 9" with 4.11's, built trans, Cam, and tune. So we shall see, I had alot done at once so not really much to compare to but I know it is a helluva lot faster than what it was. I have an auto, loose stall, and a parasitic 9" and dyno was done in 99 degree weather and 28% humidity so it won't show near as much as yours should and I pulled 347/288 to the wheels. Oh ya and had some stall slippage problems as well which are fixed now.

**Killer_bluebird** · 09-07-2007, 07:06 AM

I have the MS4. I installed it last year. It dynoed 385rwhp on stock manifolds with an ORY pype and Borlamouth. I've been spending my time and money since, little by little, getting the rest of the components to make the most out of the setup. Since the stock manifolds are so restrictive for a cam that needs good exhaust flow, I got some headers and ORY. Then I found that I was running out of injectors at the top end so some 42# Ford greentops went in. Then while tuning the car I found that my 50,000 mile LS6 clutch was slipping at High rpms. So a nice Textralia OZ700 found itself between my tranny and engine. I haven't been to the drag strip yet but the car runs awesome. I daily drive the car and had had no problems as far as drivability. I need to get to the dyno again to see where I'm at.

**slims00ls1z28** · 09-07-2007, 11:03 AM

Horsepower always finds a weak spot! Well mine found its latest last night in the form of a rod bolt giving up the ghost. Looks like no track runs for a while. Sorry just hoping all the new parts made it out alive now

.

**Killer_bluebird** · 09-07-2007, 12:01 PM

Sorry to hear! Did you get any good runs before it went? Also how high where you spinning it?

**slims00ls1z28** · 09-08-2007, 04:54 AM

Nope never had a chance to take it to the track. Rev limiter was set to 6800 so It went that high a few times.

**Mr. Luos** · 09-08-2007, 06:15 AM

I think those cams are great for track type cars and weekend warriors.
I wouldn't go that big on a car driven a lot, or if you don't want to gear to at least a 4.10.

Those cams are a little more peaky than most because of the size, so you need the short gears to get the most out of them.
Personally, if I was building up a N/A stock cubed LS1 I would probably go with a 228/228 type cam.

**sstud** · 09-08-2007, 04:23 PM

yea from what it seems, the ms4 is a popular cam...should i install this cam, would anyone suspect the need to do heads as well or can i just put in the cam? and anyone have an average install price on cam?

**ArcticZ06** · 09-08-2007, 07:56 PM

When you say the MS3/4's aren't very streetable are you referring to them having bad gas mileage, or overheating in traffic or what? Shouldnt be a problem with a 6spd cars right? I guess I never really asked before what exactly the standard definition for "non-streetable" means. I think if we set a standard or clearly define this it will help people in their decision making. Or maybe Im just stupid. durrrr

**Mr. Luos** · 09-08-2007, 08:06 PM

Overheating shouldn't be a problem.

Some larger cams will have surge down low...makes it harder to drive. Automatics can stall sometimes. M6's can buck when trying to accelerate slowly in traffic.
Most of it depends on the tune.

**Killer_bluebird** · 09-08-2007, 10:38 PM

Let me give you my experience with the MS4. My car is tuned pretty good. I do not have any surge, and bucking is very minimal. You will not be able to completely eradicate that. I mean let's be straight this is a huge cam. Only a bit smaller than the T-Rex. Now I have 3.73 gears and I would not recommend anything lower. The reason been that the bucking that you can experience with cams this size happens under very light throttle an 1200-1500rpms. So the sooner you are above that rpm the better. But you will very quickly learn to adjust your driving style to avoid that. My wife drives my car and she loves it. She loves that you don't have to be He-man to press the clutch and she has no problem driving in traffic. In fact she likes driving my car more than her A4 Z28 (we got the A4 because sometimes a physical condition doesn't allow her to drive stick). Like I said before I daily drive mine so that means rush hour morning traffic and I have no problems at all. While playing with my tune I was able to get the car so that there was barely a hint of bucking, but the throttle response was a bit slower than I liked so I went back to previous tune. I need throttle response for Auto-X, and RR.

**ArcticZ06** · 09-08-2007, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by Killer_bluebird

Let me give you my experience with the MS4. My car is tuned pretty good. I do not have any surge, and bucking is very minimal. You will not be able to completely eradicate that. I mean let's be straight this is a huge cam. Only a bit smaller than the T-Rex. Now I have 3.73 gears and I would not recommend anything lower. The reason been that the bucking that you can experience with cams this size happens under very light throttle an 1200-1500rpms. So the sooner you are above that rpm the better. But you will very quickly learn to adjust your driving style to avoid that. My wide drives my car and she loves it. She loves that you don't have to be He-man to press the clutch and she has no problem driving in traffic. In fact she likes driving my car more than her A4 Z28 (we got the A4 because sometimes a physical condition doesn't allow her to drive stick). Like I said before I daily drive mine so that means rush hour morning traffic and I have no problems at all. While playing with my tune I was able to get the car so that there was barely a hint of bucking, but the throttle response was a bit slower than I liked so I went back to previous tune. I need throttle response for Auto-X, and RR.

Great info man I really appreciate it! Would you mind posting what other mods you have? Working on heads/valves/springs is all new to me so I need all the info I can get. Im assuming you have double springs for the high lift right? bear with me. Im learning here. TSP states they used the cam on a stock manifold car and it worked. I thought about getting this cam to hold me over until I buy a set of heads.

Edit: nevermind i see your mods in your profile now. So you're running stock heads ?

**Killer_bluebird** · 09-09-2007, 04:01 AM

yep. Stock heads. I may be throwing a set of stock 243's to see how it does. But ultimately I would love to put on a set of trickflows to put the car in the upper 400rwhp range (480 or so), 500 with a ported Fast 90/90 setup. It will depend how the money situation goes next year. I really need to dyno to see where I'm at know and again with 243's but 440-450rwhp should not be out of reach.

**slims00ls1z28** · 09-09-2007, 01:12 PM

Hey bluebird did your camcard specs match the advertised ones exactly? Also did you flycut the pistons for clearance or just stick the cam in and go? If you have you card and the exhaust lift varies from the advertised what is it?

I ask because I finally broke mine down yesterday and found the problem was not a rod bolt but a broken valve due to all the exhaust valves hitting and one finally breaking the head off playing ping pong inside the chamber before the piston exploded. Every piston has valve reliefs pressed in them from the valves hitting. They advertised the MS3 specs being 237/242 .603/.609 yet my cam card listed 238/242 .605/.612 which is even more than the advertised lift on the MS4. I didn't pay it any attention I figured it was just nominal variance. Don't think it was now. Something is/was off and it wasn't on my end. Shouldn't be the valvesprings because I got their cam kit with the duals that "they" recommended.

**Mr. Luos** · 09-09-2007, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by slims00ls1z28

I ask because I finally broke mine down yesterday and found the problem was not a rod bolt but a broken valve due to all the exhaust valves hitting and one finally breaking the head off playing ping pong inside the chamber before the piston exploded. Every piston has valve reliefs pressed in them from the valves hitting. They advertised the MS3 specs being 237/242 .603/.609 yet my cam card listed 238/242 .605/.612 which is even more than the advertised lift on the MS4. I didn't pay it any attention I figured it was just nominal variance. Don't think it was now. Something is/was off and it wasn't on my end. Shouldn't be the valvesprings because I got their cam kit with the duals that "they" recommended.

Those cams push the limits of piston-to-valve clearance.
Your over rev caused it as those cams shouldn't need flycutting unless you want the safety of it.

**Killer_bluebird** · 09-13-2007, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Luos

Those cams push the limits of piston-to-valve clearance.
Your over rev caused it as those cams shouldn't need flycutting unless you want the safety of it.

True but he could have had the wrong cam sent from comp. It is not the first time comp ground a cam wrong. I would call TSP. I probably would have called them to verify if there was any doubt, but that is a mute point now.

**slims00ls1z28** · 09-14-2007, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by Mr. Luos

Those cams push the limits of piston-to-valve clearance.
Your over rev caused it as those cams shouldn't need flycutting unless you want the safety of it.

Kind of what TSP said I just didn't figure the car would act fine 600 miles later being run hard many times. Dunno too many people say different things couple people say the marks shouldn't be symetrical unless they hit all the time. All marks on exhisting pistons are the exactly the same. Another said it was probably a combo of to big a cam/over-rev/minor defect in valve with greatly increased pressure. TSP said the difference in lift shouldn't be a problem they say all the valves got floated on the over rev. I just find it odd that even the TSP ms4 doesn't go that big on exhaust. I dunno had 2 engine builders say that isn't so there no way all would have floated like that. Many theories but oh well time to go big anyway. Bottom line MS3 cam is great cam loved the power but be careful with it. Cam survived as did everything else from them so it will all go into my mext motor.

**sstud** · 09-25-2007, 10:30 PM

lets keep this thread alive cuz there is alota good information coming afloat...hope these dont sound like dumbass questions but ive been outa the game a lil cuz of college...i have an 02 35th SS...dont wnna go crazy with her but i wanna give her a lil more spunk...now im thinking about the ms4 with its basic necessities like springs and pushrods...car is a4, so 3.23... other work includes hooker headers and y pipe, slp exhaust, k and n intake...does this project sound doable?

**FASTSS** · 09-26-2007, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by slims00ls1z28

Kind of what TSP said I just didn't figure the car would act fine 600 miles later being run hard many times. Dunno too many people say different things couple people say the marks shouldn't be symetrical unless they hit all the time. All marks on exhisting pistons are the exactly the same. Another said it was probably a combo of to big a cam/over-rev/minor defect in valve with greatly increased pressure. TSP said the difference in lift shouldn't be a problem they say all the valves got floated on the over rev. I just find it odd that even the TSP ms4 doesn't go that big on exhaust. I dunno had 2 engine builders say that isn't so there no way all would have floated like that. Many theories but oh well time to go big anyway. Bottom line MS3 cam is great cam loved the power but be careful with it. Cam survived as did everything else from them so it will all go into my mext motor.

Your variance from the cam card to advertised specs wasn't the problem. .003 is not very much at all. I have never seen a cam hit the advertised specs exactly, especially a shelf type cam. Lift was not your problem anyway. Duration is what causes PTV problems, not lift. Did you change head gaskets??Mill the heads any?? Either of those could have been the problem. I could believe that you floated the valves, and just because TSP says something doesn't make it the gospel...

**FASTSS** · 09-26-2007, 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by sstud

lets keep this thread alive cuz there is alota good information coming afloat...hope these dont sound like dumbass questions but ive been outa the game a lil cuz of college...i have an 02 35th SS...dont wnna go crazy with her but i wanna give her a lil more spunk...now im thinking about the ms4 with its basic necessities like springs and pushrods...car is a4, so 3.23... other work includes hooker headers and y pipe, slp exhaust, k and n intake...does this project sound doable?

Stay away from the big cams like this if you plan on keeping the rear gear in there now. Personally I would go no bigger than a ~230/232 in your car and preferebly smaller than that, somewhere in the 224-228 range. You need to stall that ride also, or you won't be getting the potential out of your motor..