trick flow head&cam package?

**mite53** · 02-06-2008, 02:39 PM

http://www.summitracing.com/streetandstrip/tech_content.asp?ID={B646CD78-3333-41C2-A084-DC97E4708AB2}

anyone try this package out yet? or is there a more budget friendly way to get 485hp for less than 3 grand?
all three kits (485,500,515hp are the same price 3,099.95) it seems like a lot of cash when ive seen people on here say theyve gotten heads and cam for like 2 grand but then again theyre dyno numbers werent that close to 485 at the least, and supposedly this was tested on a stock ls1 with ls6 intake. am i being to gullible in believing these numbers?should i just look at just piecing together than getting this package?

**gashkerwin** · 02-06-2008, 04:36 PM

I seem to recall looking at that setup a few weeks ago. One thing you might want to think about is I'm about 95% sure that the 485/500/515 that they're referencing is engine hp, not rwhp, so figure 485 hp is a lot more like 415rwhp, which plenty of people are doing with a heads/cam pairing that costs less than 3100.

**shaggsm3ls1** · 02-06-2008, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by gashkerwin

I seem to recall looking at that setup a few weeks ago. One thing you might want to think about is I'm about 95% sure that the 485/500/515 that they're referencing is engine hp, not rwhp, so figure 485 hp is a lot more like 415rwhp, which plenty of people are doing with a heads/cam pairing that costs less than 3100.

I would have to agree with ya on this one. No way can you make that kind of RWHP with just a head and cam package on a stock LS1

A stock LS1 with Patriot Stage 2 "LS6" heads (59cc), LS6 intake, lid, LT's, tru-duals, and a 230 cam will probably net you around 415-420 rwhp

Summit sells the Patriots for a good price of 1,229.95 and TS sells their MS3 237/242 cam for 389.99

Cheaper than the Summit package you're looking at

Hope I got this info right, cause I'm kinda drunk right now

**mite53** · 02-07-2008, 01:48 AM

Hey thanks a lot guys

**Olde Skoole** · 02-08-2008, 04:37 PM

The only problem is that Patriot heads DON'T flow nearly as well as the Trick Flow units.

**gashkerwin** · 02-08-2008, 05:07 PM

Hey, I'm totally willing to accept that the Patriot heads don't flow as well as the AFRs or the trickflows. Here's the rub though. The patriots are $1000 less. At the point where you've got everything else done, I need to see more than 1 set of dyno proven numbers where they run patriots, pull the car off the dyno, swap the heads to the trickflows, and put down more power. Not only that, I need that power to be like 20+ hp before I justify the added cost.

**shaggsm3ls1** · 02-08-2008, 06:16 PM

1k more for what, like 6-10hp? If you're really worried about that little bit of power, just get an underdrive pulley kit and the best fluids (oil,tranny,diff). Lose those parasitic losses for half the price, and you'll get the same results.

Just my .02

**blackls1ta** · 02-12-2008, 04:11 AM

trick flows are better than afrs in my opinion

**Frost** · 02-12-2008, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by shaggsm3ls1

I would have to agree with ya on this one. No way can you make that kind of RWHP with just a head and cam package on a stock LS1

A stock LS1 with Patriot Stage 2 "LS6" heads (59cc), LS6 intake, lid, LT's, tru-duals, and a 230 cam will probably net you around 415-420 rwhp

Summit sells the Patriots for a good price of 1,229.95 and TS sells their MS3 237/242 cam for 389.99

Cheaper than the Summit package you're looking at

Hope I got this info right, cause I'm kinda drunk right now

Vengence has graph after graph of their TFS heads making those numbers in the 480s, why are you telling him "no way" ?? Heck they have a few better-than-expected setups (running ported fast90s) that broke the 500rwhp mark with the STOCK BOTTOM END...

Anyone who recommends Patriot heads either had one set only that made decent power for them, or they just plain have not worked with them. They consistently yield mediocre results and leave the owners either upset, suprised (not good suprised), or wishing they had bought a different cyl head.

**Olde Skoole** · 02-12-2008, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by blackls1ta

trick flows are better than afrs in my opinion

I concur, trick flows have been dyno proven to outperform AFR's in many cases

**Frost** · 02-12-2008, 07:30 AM

One thing to remember is that the TFS heads require different rockers

**Olde Skoole** · 02-12-2008, 07:34 AM

Patriot heads are simply stock heads that have been CNC ported.....this makes them slightly better than stock heads.....aftermarket heads such as AFR's or Trick flow units have totally redesigned chambers, Intake and Exhaust ports, That is what makes them superior to Patriot units.
you can't raise the roof or lower the floor of a port in a stock head w/o increasing the port volume unless you wanna break out the tig welder and start adding some material, then there's the problem of cutting into a water jacket...been there, done that.
Think about the design of stock 23 degree heads vs 18 degree vs 13 degree heads, whenever you straigten the flow you increase power, you simply can't substantially increase or straighten the flow using a stock head as the platform....Price vs performance the Patriot heads are just not a good value IMHO.
Speed costs money, how fast do you wanna go...?

**john5632** · 02-13-2008, 06:40 AM

Dont mean to hijack,but what do people think trickflo would do over TSP 5.3 stage 2.5 heads

**Olde Skoole** · 02-13-2008, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by john5632

Dont mean to hijack,but what do people think trickflo would do over TSP 5.3 stage 2.5 heads

I believe your referring to the PRC heads which are simply CNC ported stock castings and are comparable to Patriot heads....they don't compare to Trick Flow

**john5632** · 02-13-2008, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Olde Skoole

I believe your referring to the PRC heads which are simply CNC ported stock castings and are comparable to Patriot heads....they don't compare to Trick Flow

I realize trickflo is a better head,but was just curious if anyone has swapped to trickflos from a prc head,and that being the only difference. What was the gain on the dyno

**Marc 85Z28** · 02-13-2008, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Olde Skoole

I believe your referring to the PRC heads which are simply CNC ported stock castings and are comparable to Patriot heads....they don't compare to Trick Flow

Patriots always have been and always will be junk. The PRC heads from Texas Speed are bar none THE best CNC ported stock casting you can buy - and it helps that they are considered a budget head. Livernois also makes an inexpensive ported stock head that works. Absolute Speed are decent. If you're running a 346 with a hydraulic cam and a stock type intake (no sheet metal stuff), the PRC heads will make within a few HP of ANY other head out there.

The Trick Flow heads flow great and certainly make power, but they are awfully expensive to start. You've got to cut your stock valve covers AND run an aftermarket roller rocker setup. They're EXPENSIVE!

**blkSS98** · 02-13-2008, 02:08 PM

Why do you have to run aftermarket rockers w/ trick flows? Has any tried Racing Head Service heads?

Just for shits and grins check these out. I doubt anybody has the $7500 to buy these! http://www.araoengineering.com/LSX.htm

**Olde Skoole** · 02-13-2008, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by blkSS98

Why do you have to run aftermarket rockers w/ trick flows? Has any tried Racing Head Service heads?

Just for shits and grins check these out. I doubt anybody has the $7500 to buy these! http://www.araoengineering.com/LSX.htm

there's a few of us with the money.....but no need for 32-valve heads,
then ya gotta fab a intake and hedders and etc

**gashkerwin** · 02-13-2008, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by blkSS98

Has any tried Racing Head Service heads?

I'm curious about this too. Their heads look pretty reasonably priced when compared to the AFRs or TrickFlows, and are 11 degree heads, which makes me think they should make big power for the same reason TrickFlow claims to.