thinking bout this head and cam

[00z28_ls1]

ok so i was thinking about getting the AFR 205 cc heads and the texas speed MS3 cam. will these go good together. and im new to the whole ls1 modding so i would like to know if there is anything else i need to upgrade when i do this. money is not an issue and i want to do this right the firs time. so if anybody could steer me in the right direction it would be a big help

[00z28bubba]

what are you going for? i would say give comp cams a call and tell them what your looking for, so they can do a custom grind. what bolt ons do you have. if you dont have any mods do your bolt ons first. intake(induction and manifold), exhaust, and suspension stuff. just to be sure. you said money is not an option so im just assuming its the same way in all aspects of the car. if your willing to spend the money only in that area you should definitely let people know what your goals are and what mods you have now. tranny would be nice to know aswell. but answer my questions and others will answer your question(s). just to let you know there are some things that many would consider must haves before you touch internals. personally i just have some minor things left with bolt ons. but the ls6 intake(this or better is one of the must have mods imo) would be a big help for future mods. i have one on the way right now but the rest for me are gears(for now) stall and ported throttle body(not in that order) before i start any internals. before those is all susp with trying to keep the ten bolt until i can afford a 9".

[00z28_ls1]

im just goin for a street/strip car with around 450 rwhp. right now the car is completley stock. i plan on doin the ls6 intake or the 90 fast intake with the 90 tb. and in about a week or so, im doin the exhust. gonna do longtubes and an x-pipe. not to sure on mufflers yet. havnt decided if i want them or not. and its an m6 car. and as for the other boltons, like underdrive and lid, i planned on those as well. i just forgot to add that i was puttin those on as wel. as for the rear, i was told by a buddy it should be able to hole up to 450 rwhp. so i wasnt really gonna mess with that. for susp. i dont want to lower the cower. im not gonna autocross it or anything. it would striclty be a street/strip

[the_husk]

im just goin for a street/strip car with around 450 rwhp. right now the car is completley stock. i plan on doin the ls6 intake or the 90 fast intake with the 90 tb. and in about a week or so, im doin the exhust. gonna do longtubes and an x-pipe. not to sure on mufflers yet. havnt decided if i want them or not. and its an m6 car. and as for the other boltons, like underdrive and lid, i planned on those as well. i just forgot to add that i was puttin those on as wel. as for the rear, i was told by a buddy it should be able to hole up to 450 rwhp. so i wasnt really gonna mess with that. for susp. i dont want to lower the cower. im not gonna autocross it or anything. it would striclty be a street/strip

You had better be SOFT on those launches if you are not going to mess with the rear end. STOCK M6 cars have been known to break them at the track, let alone 450rwhp.

[00z28_ls1]

You had better be SOFT on those launches if you are not going to mess with the rear end. STOCK M6 cars have been known to break them at the track, let alone 450rwhp.

well if thats the case then, looks like the rear end will be getting messed with. hello 12 bolt or 9inch

[UTVols98]

AFR or Trick Flow 205's milled 59cc chamber's, MS3 cam, and FAST 92/92 and you will easily have 450 rwhp. You will need to flycut the pistons though, but that's not a huge job since the heads will be off anyways. I agree with the 12 bolt or 9 in. You will not be able to launch hard until you get rid of that 10 bolt behind you. If you do decide to spray later on, then the higher compression ratio and MS3 (good nitrous cam) you'll have a 10 second car on your hands with only a 100 shot as long as you can get it to hook.

[00z28_ls1]

AFR or Trick Flow 205's milled 59cc chamber's, MS3 cam, and FAST 92/92 and you will easily have 450 rwhp. You will need to flycut the pistons though, but that's not a huge job since the heads will be off anyways. I agree with the 12 bolt or 9 in. You will not be able to launch hard until you get rid of that 10 bolt behind you. If you do decide to spray later on, then the higher compression ratio and MS3 (good nitrous cam) you'll have a 10 second car on your hands with only a 100 shot as long as you can get it to hook.

that sounds good to me. not sure about the spray yet, but what is flycutting the pistons. im new to this, and am not real sure on what that means, or let alone know how to do it

[INMY01TA]

You shouldn't need to flycut the pistons with the MS3 cam. AFR heads will work great but if you wanna save $1,000 just use the PRC 5.3 heads. Lots of guys using this combo, proven performance. Texas Speed can recess the valves for you to give extra piston to valve clearance. You could use the money you save off the AFRs for a FAST 92/92 combo, just a thought. Another related thread:http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=877876

[adam0321]

i have the tsp heads 5.3,2.5 with the ms3 and my pistons did not have to be cut. Hear is the story, I bulit the tranny and clutch up first. Then I beefed up the suspension, lcs,sfc track bar the whole nine yards. Then I built up the engine. with....ms3,5.3,2.5 heads,92/92 combo,160stat,lid,all the bolt onns you can imagine. the car made 462rwhp. While it was in the shop I bought a moser 9 with 4.10's for it. I broke the stock rearend when i went to pick it up and drove it around the street for the first time. Now it has the m9 in it along with 100shot. with drags I am in the 10's but the moral of the story...that rear will not hold that kind of power. all in all it sounds like we are building the same set up, I love mine. its a beast, I havent been beat on the street yet. the track yes...but not the street

[RedVertTA]

If you want to bore the block out later I would not get the AFR 205's, since your going to want to get the AFR 225's later for the larger bore. Then you will hate yourself for buying a head you'd want to replace anyway.

[Hi-Po]

If you want to bore the block out later I would not get the AFR 205's, since your going to want to get the AFR 225's later for the larger bore. Then you will hate yourself for buying a head you'd want to replace anyway.

Boring the LS1 doesnt have a good ending usually. Just not enough material there to bore. Even if he did he would have to buy a different rotating assembly. Were getting off track....


If you have the money, get the 205's. People are making great, great numbers with their great mid lift flow. Very nice head, but damn expensive, if you have the money for them at 18... more power to ya! :thumb:

Ask around about the MS3, or do some search's around here and the other place. Some like the MS3, some think it is too large for a mainly street car. Its really what YOU want out of the car in normal driving conditions. Depends alot on the tuner.

[RedVertTA]

Boring the LS1 doesnt have a good ending usually. Just not enough material there to bore. Even if he did he would have to buy a different rotating assembly. Were getting off track....


If you have the money, get the 205's. People are making great, great numbers with their great mid lift flow. Very nice head, but damn expensive, if you have the money for them at 18... more power to ya! :thumb:

Ask around about the MS3, or do some search's around here and the other place. Some like the MS3, some think it is too large for a mainly street car. Its really what YOU want out of the car in normal driving conditions. Depends alot on the tuner.

First off, I never told him to bore the block, and no we are not getting off track.

When he is planning to buy a ~ $3000 set of heads he needs to plan ahead and consider future builds. Some people on these forums are loaded, as for the rest of use, we don't all have money to burn, so we have to plan ahead down to the last dollar. (Whether boring out of the block is a good idea or not is a different issue for a different forum, but ultimately his decision, I am not arguing in favor of either.)

Personally, if I was going to go with the only heads + cam setup, and would not see any future modifications involving a larger bore, I would get the 205's, they are a great head.

If money is your issue, consider stock ported heads. There is nothing wrong with the stock heads. You can have the heads professionally ported, milled and assembled with larger valves and better springs for half the price of a new set of 205's, the stock ported and built heads will flow over 300 cfm on the intake, they are good heads. I don't know how much skill you have as a mechanic, but you may even be able to save money by doing some of the assembly yourself.

If you are considering a future wide bore rotating assembly, keep in mind that you will probably want to change to a head that's made for larger bore motors (AFR 205's are made for the stock bore). Therefore it would not be wise to buy an expensive pair of heads ($3000) that would be replaced in the near future.

In that case you could just go with stock heads + cam until the time for your new rotating assembly comes. I'm not telling you to plan for a new rotating assembly, I'm just saying that if you already are, then plan ahead.


Ultimately these are your decisions. It depends on what you want out of your motor (And how deep your pockets are $$$).

[Hi-Po]

First off, I never told him to bore the block, and no we are not getting off track.

.

What block of his were you referring to?

[RedVertTA]

What block of his were you referring to?

The one he's got of course

Look I'm not saying your wrong I'm just stressing that people plan ahead.

[Hi-Po]

If you want to bore the block out later I would not get the AFR 205's, since your going to want to get the AFR 225's later for the larger bore. Then you will hate yourself for buying a head you'd want to replace anyway.

Boring the LS1 doesnt have a good ending usually. Just not enough material there to bore. Even if he did he would have to buy a different rotating assembly. Were getting off track....

First off, I never told him to bore the block, and no we are not getting off track.

W.

The one he's got of course

ahead.

He has an LS1 block!

[RedVertTA]

He has an LS1 block!

I don't get your point.

[Hi-Po]

I don't get your point.

Eh, NM.

[withrowm]

AFR heads are great heads, so are the PRC's(from what I have read about them). I have AFR's myself and love them would not trade them for any other head. If you want to save some money get the PRC's, if you have the money get the AFR heads I think they are worth it. I made 436hp 430torque(m6 and 10-bolt that will most likely break soon) with a 222/224 .566 .568 cam. PRC heads and nice for the money but I would not have made that kinda power with that kinda torque with PRC heads.

BTW AFR heads are not $3000, they are $2200-$2500ish. Also even if you upgraded to something with a bigger bore like a 408 you dont need 225's to make good power. A lot of people go with the 205's with there 408's and make great power.

[SOMbitch]

I have PRC's and they are good for the $$ but if you can afford AFR's go for it. They have strong low/mid/lift #'s which is what really makes torque. People get way too caught up in peak #'s. BTW AFR's generally like about 4* of exhaust bias so something in the 228/232 or 230/234 range will make strong top and bottom and be a good DD. With the right supporting mods I can see 440/410 without camming the sh!t out it.