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Suede's Build (Opinions and Facts Welcome)

This is a discussion on Suede's Build (Opinions and Facts Welcome) within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; To start this off, whats done so far...this stuff is on the car already... Volant CAI, Smooth Bellows, Ported MAF, ...

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    MANWHORE TEAM suede's Avatar
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    Suede's Build (Opinions and Facts Welcome)

    To start this off, whats done so far...this stuff is on the car already...

    Volant CAI, Smooth Bellows, Ported MAF, 90/90 TB Intake combo, Kooks 1 7/8 headers, QTP ORY W/ Dual E-Cutouts,

    I have the other stuff taken care of (Susp. Trans and Rear), but thats the important Engine stuff...

    Goals- eventually i want to run Full bolt on, H/C, About a 150 wet shot,


    Question one... Heads...
    I'll take the Patriots over AFR's and save some money but...
    What are the Pro's/Con's between the 5.7 LS6 style vs 5.3?
    between the stage 2 vs stage 3
    Also what about Chamber size?

    Question two...Roller Rockers...
    What difference does a 1.7 or 1.8 ratio make?
    Who makes some good one and is this a good direction?
    Cam will be Very healthy.

    Springs and Valves...
    What's recomended for about a 232 sized cam?
    With the heads, does all this shit come with it or no(I'm new to heads)
    Would it be recomneded to upgrade it right off the bat?


    I get some of this cleared up I'll get to my other Questions... Lets hear it boys...
    Last edited by suede; 11-06-2008 at 09:03 PM.

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    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suede View Post
    Goals- eventually i want to run Full bolt on, H/C, About a 150 wet shot, maybe even a bit of a stroker too...

    Question one... Heads...
    I'll take the Patriots over AFR's and save some money but...
    What are the Pro's/Con's between the 5.7 LS6 style vs 5.3?
    between the stage 2 vs stage 3
    Also what about Chamber size?

    Question two...Roller Rockers...
    What difference does a 1.7 or 1.8 ratio make?
    Who makes some good one and is this a good direction?
    Cam will be Very healthy.

    Springs and Valves...
    What's recomended for about a 232 sized cam?
    With the heads, does all this shit come with it or no(I'm new to heads)
    Would it be recomneded to upgrade it right off the bat?


    I get some of this cleared up I'll get to my other Questions... Lets hear it boys...
    the 5.3 heads have smaller chambers to give you a bump in compression over the ls6 heads but smaller valves. you can have bigger valves put in with some machine work.
    basicly the 1.8 rockers give you more lift with the same cam than the 1.7 rockers, making it act like a bigger cam, gives you throw on a small cam it can be good, but if you are using a bigger cam can cause binding and high rate of ware.
    as far as the springs go, decide on your cam, and rocker ratio(1.7 or 1.8) so you can get your true lift and with that info you parts dealer should beable to get you the right spring.
    also a thing to remember with big valves, small chambers, and high lift cam you need to check your valve to piston clearence very carefully and might need valve releifs cut in your pistons.
    sounds like you got a good project planed good luck man!

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    Member squee's Avatar
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    To be honest, roller rockers aren't necessary. The Harland Sharp upgrade is more than enough. IF you do go with new rockers, I've heard good things about the Crane Quiklifts. They change the typical lift. Mrr23 has them on one of his cars.

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    don't need rockers with a hydrolic cam. when going solid roller, that's when you should get them.

    SCREW 5.3 heads. you can get Ls6 heads with a lower 'cc' size that will be even more effective and produce more power than 5.3 heads. people need to get off the 5.3 bandwagon. Ls6 Stage II heads (59cc) will run circles around any 5.3 head with the same 'cc' size. period. stage III heads are not for stock cubed engines. No need to run them.

    if you get heads, then they wlill already have springs, and valvetrain upgrades done. You can get dual springs good to a .650 lift, and 2.02int/1.57ext valves (what come on Patriot Stage II heads (i know cause im running those heads) and you will be fine...

    no need to get kooks headers. headers of similar quality and performance gains can be aquired at a fraction of the cost...

    screw porting the MAF. port the 90/90 instead, thats where it matters...

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    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    don't need rockers with a hydrolic cam. when going solid roller, that's when you should get them.

    SCREW 5.3 heads. you can get Ls6 heads with a lower 'cc' size that will be even more effective and produce more power than 5.3 heads. people need to get off the 5.3 bandwagon. Ls6 Stage II heads (59cc) will run circles around any 5.3 head with the same 'cc' size. period. stage III heads are not for stock cubed engines. No need to run them.

    if you get heads, then they wlill already have springs, and valvetrain upgrades done. You can get dual springs good to a .650 lift, and 2.02int/1.57ext valves (what come on Patriot Stage II heads (i know cause im running those heads) and you will be fine...

    no need to get kooks headers. headers of similar quality and performance gains can be aquired at a fraction of the cost...

    screw porting the MAF. port the 90/90 instead, thats where it matters...
    man SSwt00SS you sound cranky this morning lol. how you been, its been awhile since I've seen you on here....im still running the background you sent me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark21742 View Post
    man SSwt00SS you sound cranky this morning lol. how you been, its been awhile since I've seen you on here....im still running the background you sent me!
    im good AND cranky this morning. i thank my consultants for that. f'n idiots. i should of stayed home...

    how have you been? what have you been upto?

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    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    im good AND cranky this morning. i thank my consultants for that. f'n idiots. i should of stayed home...

    how have you been? what have you been upto?
    I'm better now, getting over pnemonia, working, working on the house. just got the widebody and paint done on the goat and going to drop a 3,600 stall in the car this weekend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark21742 View Post
    I'm better now, getting over pnemonia, working, working on the house. just got the widebody and paint done on the goat and going to drop a 3,600 stall in the car this weekend!
    i hope you get over that crap completely...

    i want some pics of the GTO, man!

    the lady and i are starting the house hunting. ugh...

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    MANWHORE TEAM suede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    don't need rockers with a hydrolic cam. when going solid roller, that's when you should get them.

    SCREW 5.3 heads. you can get Ls6 heads with a lower 'cc' size that will be even more effective and produce more power than 5.3 heads. people need to get off the 5.3 bandwagon. Ls6 Stage II heads (59cc) will run circles around any 5.3 head with the same 'cc' size. period. stage III heads are not for stock cubed engines. No need to run them.

    if you get heads, then they wlill already have springs, and valvetrain upgrades done. You can get dual springs good to a .650 lift, and 2.02int/1.57ext valves (what come on Patriot Stage II heads (i know cause im running those heads) and you will be fine...

    no need to get kooks headers. headers of similar quality and performance gains can be aquired at a fraction of the cost...

    screw porting the MAF. port the 90/90 instead, thats where it matters...
    So what i've gathered....
    Pick out a cam before deciding 1.7 or 1.8
    Springs, valves, and rockers should be sufficient on the 5.7 patriot stage 2's
    I want 59cc heads?

    I already have the Kooks (got them for 350), and already ported MAF...will be looking into portmatching intake to heads...


    On to another question...
    I have done some looking at cam's and like the looks of the MS3...
    Any comparable cams in that range to look at?
    I know i could always get a custom grind but how much $$$ is that gonna run?

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    MANWHORE TEAM suede's Avatar
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    On another note would it be worth just porting my stock heads over the Pat.s?

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    Member squee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suede View Post
    On another note would it be worth just porting my stock heads over the Pat.s?
    I'd just get the Patriots. The MS3 is a good cam, but if you want, a custom ground wouldn't be much, if any more. I'd call a place like Thunder Racing, Cam Motion, or Futral Motorsports. Lucky me, 3 of the biggest in the country are all 15 minutes away.
    Kip at Cam Motion knows his shit and is one of the best. I'd call him first.

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    MANWHORE TEAM suede's Avatar
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    anyone have the full specs of the ms3 and some other options?

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    MANWHORE TEAM suede's Avatar
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    I also seen this cam that looks comparable to a ms3-

    Comp Cams Extreme XE-R Hydraulic Roller Cam, 232/234 duration with .595/.598 lift and 112 LS. 2400-7200 RPM operating range

    And this one... but i think this will be a bit big...

    Duration: 236 Intake/240 Exhaust on a 112LSA at .050 Inch Lift
    Lift: .600" Intake/.600" Exhaust

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    Stay with 1.7 rockers. Absolutely no need to go to 1.8's if your doing a cam. You will have problems.

    You dont NEED rockers, some just like to get everything done at once and have total piece of mind.

    Heads.... I dont know what to say.

    I have 5.3 862's ported by lingenfelter and I love the power it makes. But, I cant say what different heads will make, because I have no first hand experience with them. You need to do more researching and figure out exactly what you want with the car. I would say.... probably... get the 5.7's...? Shit I duno.

    Stage III are NOT for stock cubed LS1's. The valves are too large to run on stock bore.

    Like said above... 5.3's will give you a higher CR than the 5.7's.

    You do not gain much HP with added compression. 5.3 vs 5.7. You will see some extra HP, but not crazy numbers like some think.

    For cam, I say stay low low 230's and just under .600 lit and on a 114.

    112 will sound better, 114 will perform better on the street.

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    1. The main difference between 5.3's and ls6 heads is 5.3's offer you a bump in compression without milling the head. I think they're advertised as 10.75:1 and I would have to look up the chamber size because it's not coming to me right now but it's either 59cc or 61cc on the 5.3's. You can mill the ls6 heads to get your CR up but you'll have to watch the size of cam then for ptv clearance.
    2. Stick with 1.7 rockers. Any decent cam won't allow you to run 1.8's anyhow.
    3. If you buy complete heads the springs will be included......I'd recommend patriot golds.

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    MANWHORE TEAM suede's Avatar
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    Patriot 5.7 stage 2 heads...
    Patriot gold springs....
    Harlan sharp rockers...
    230-235 ish cam with about a .600 lift and 114LSA

    What lengh Pushrods?

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    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    another thing you might want to look at, and hopefully people will give opimions on, summit racing has a trickflow package (heads/cam) 515hp for $3099. any thoughts guys? looking to a big upgrade hopefully next year

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    MANWHORE TEAM suede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squee View Post
    I'd just get the Patriots. The MS3 is a good cam, but if you want, a custom ground wouldn't be much, if any more. I'd call a place like Thunder Racing, Cam Motion, or Futral Motorsports. Lucky me, 3 of the biggest in the country are all 15 minutes away.
    Kip at Cam Motion knows his shit and is one of the best. I'd call him first.
    anyone got numbers to these guys?

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    Visualize°Design°Create SSwt00SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suede View Post
    anyone got numbers to these guys?
    go over to Tech, and find PatrickG.

    if you fill out a form he has linked in his SIG, he will custom spec a cam for you. it costs like $20 but then that is taken off the price of the cam if you order it through TR...

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    Member squee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    go over to Tech, and find PatrickG.

    if you fill out a form he has linked in his SIG, he will custom spec a cam for you. it costs like $20 but then that is taken off the price of the cam if you order it through TR...
    Cam Motion

    Thunder Racing

    Futral Motorsports

    And like SSwt00ss said, I'd talk to PatrickG IF you get one from Thunder Racing. I'd talk to Kip at Cam Motion first and foremost. There was actually a article on them in one of the Super Chevy magazines a few months back.

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