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stroking kits 383, 393 or 395

This is a discussion on stroking kits 383, 393 or 395 within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Stock crank with 4.03 pistons = I think so but why, you have bored it 30 over adding the stroker ...

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    Stock crank with 4.03 pistons = I think so but why, you have bored it 30 over adding the stroker crank is what makes it a 408. You'll be leaving a lot off HP and will need to do it all over again if you get a stroker crank, best to wait to bore it over when you are able to do it all at once.

    LS2 pistons - Me swapping to LS2 pistons is because the LQ4 has a stock compression around 9:4:1 (estimation) while the LS2 & LQ9 is around 10:1:1 (estimation). More compression better HP. However if you was going for force induction then you would want to keep the LQ4 pistons. FI like low compression. You can use stock LS2/LQ9 pistons as long as you do not bore it over, once it's bored out new pistons will be needed and what kind depends on heads/cam because of PTV clearance. At this point asking a shop like Vengeance, Trick, Comp Cams or TS&P would be wise to consult.

    LS1 rotating assembly in a 4.030 - same answer as the top question.


    I know it gets confusing.. I've been reading on this subject for a while and I still find out new stuff.

    Currently I'm trying to understand the difference between high flow heads like the L92/LS3's vs high compression like TF215's or CNC 243's on a 6L or 408 build engine. Both give HP but for different reasons. <<If anyone knows this stuff feel free to explain to me, pls.

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    My reasoning for just doing the .03 over bore and not putting the crank in is that all the cranks I find put me out of my budget as of right now, that and if I can use my ls1 rotating assembly minus the pistons I don't really have to spend all that much on this. I can get 4.03 pistons that are good quality for little money. But maybe I should start working on removing my block and selling it as "AS IS" and that way I can get some more money to play around with. Although this may change when my tax return comes in. Also I found a kit from TMS (Thompson Motorsports) that sells a 370 (4.03 bore x 3.622 crank) for $1,999 and a 408 is $3849.

    Maybe you could just send me your block, Scott . This really pisses me off it seems I am screwed just because of a stupid lifter bolt. The fix I thought worked ended up not working. I am tempted to just put the gasket on and the heads on but I am unsure if that would be okay, I know it is the right way to do it but I may be able to last until I can get my funds together, I mean the lifter tray can't exactly go anywhere. Or securing it some other way, even if it is more permanent.

    My understanding between high flow heads and high compression heads is that high flow head have more air flow but high compression heads have more velocity or flow air faster. I may be wrong but that is what my understanding in what I have read.

    I have a question I have not been able to find the answer to. With a 408 can you run a bigger than stock ls1 cam without a stall? I wasn't sure if cubes allowed you to do this.
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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Will all of this above has been solid info.

    My plans for my LQ4 block are LS3 heads & intake (*), swap the LQ4 pistons over to LS2's (Already have them). LS2 timing chain, LS6 oil pump and a custom grind cam from Pat G or something from Vengeance like the VRX-5 Camshaft. 6 liters (408's) seem to like it a lot.

    One more thing I've read that the 6 liters seem to like MS3/4's more so then the LS1's. I think it's because of the extra cubes.

    * Note - I may for now throw in the LQ4 with the LS2 pistons with my LS6 intake and find some 5.3 heads or 243's to get it running till I can have everything for the 408 build so I wouldn't be moping around without being able to drive my car. Only thing that sucks is that I would be buying a cam twice.
    That sounds like a solid plan. Although if you wanted there is no issue running l92 heads on a stock 6.0. This way you wouldnt have to change heads or intake when you stroke it. You will still make killer power also with an appropriate sized cam. They wont outperform aftermarket cathedral castings but they will certainly put down over 440whp with a good cam.
    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    This is what I have been trying to consider, throwing in a 6.0 now and later stroking it out. Can I use stock rods and crank with 4.03 pistons or can I use stock ls2 pistons with a 4.03 bore (I wouldn't think so). Another question, could I use all of my ls1 rotating assembly minus pistons if it checks out?(crank and rods for example)
    Yes the rods and crank are all the same for early engines from 4.8 to 6.0.The pistons will not work as they are made for a 4" bore and that block is already bored .030 over so stock pistons will not fit. I wouldnt go through all of that trouble to be swapping parts over. You would need to get new bearings, new rings, new bolts and balance everything just to tear it all back out to stroke it not too much later down the road.

    I would find a used lq4 or lq9 short or long block which can be had for 1k or under. and at that point do 1 of 2 things keep it stock for now and just throwing in a nice cam which would make well into the 400's for hp or throw on a set of l92 heads and intake and add a cam designed for them. This combo on a 6.0 has been proven to be just south of 450hp on numerous occasions.

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    Where do you find them for 1k? I can only find them for $1800ish, although I found this one for $600 and another for $800 but the $800 one looked to be disassembled. The $600 one needs a honing I believe. Here is the link: LQ9 short block let me know what you think. This one is pretty local, so I could go get it, assuming I could get it in the back of my wife's minivan .

    I also found this one but it looks like it may need a hone or boring:Another LQ9, a LQ4
    Last edited by 98TransAmWs-6; 02-04-2013 at 09:14 PM.

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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Stock crank with 4.03 pistons = I think so but why, you have bored it 30 over adding the stroker crank is what makes it a 408. You'll be leaving a lot off HP and will need to do it all over again if you get a stroker crank, best to wait to bore it over when you are able to do it all at once.

    This is why I mentioned just buying a stock lq9 engine and just dropping it in for now. Its not worth swapping everything over to a different block just to tear it down again.
    LS2 pistons - Me swapping to LS2 pistons is because the LQ4 has a stock compression around 9:4:1 (estimation) while the LS2 & LQ9 is around 10:1:1 (estimation). More compression better HP. However if you was going for force induction then you would want to keep the LQ4 pistons. FI like low compression. You can use stock LS2/LQ9 pistons as long as you do not bore it over, once it's bored out new pistons will be needed and what kind depends on heads/cam because of PTV clearance. At this point asking a shop like Vengeance, Trick, Comp Cams or TS&P would be wise to consult.

    LS1 rotating assembly in a 4.030 - same answer as the top question.


    I know it gets confusing.. I've been reading on this subject for a while and I still find out new stuff.

    Currently I'm trying to understand the difference between high flow heads like the L92/LS3's vs high compression like TF215's or CNC 243's on a 6L or 408 build engine. Both give HP but for different reasons. <<If anyone knows this stuff feel free to explain to me, pls.
    The rectangle port heads have a much larger intake port and thus flow a lot more air coming into the engine therefore they dont need to be ported to make big power, they just stuff air into the engine. Cathedral port heads on the other hand dont have this option in stock form, when ported the intake can flow awesome numbers as well.

    However the l92 heads have much larger valves, this is beneficial because you can run a smaller cam and lose nothing up top for power because of the air that they flow. With cathedral heads you woul need a cam with more duration to make up for the smaller valves, thus possibly losing some driveability.

    Consequently the cam specs for an l92 car will be much different than a cathedral. Cathedral heads tend to favor cams that have a small split in them and keep the I/E durations similar. L92 heads otoh like cams that heavily favor the exhaust side as they flow much less on the exhaust side.

    A cathedral head ported correctly will probably make a tad more torque down low than the l92's thanks to its smaller chamber and velocity but up top they will be very similar, with the l92 making the same power with less cam.

    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    My reasoning for just doing the .03 over bore and not putting the crank in is that all the cranks I find put me out of my budget as of right now, that and if I can use my ls1 rotating assembly minus the pistons I don't really have to spend all that much on this. I can get 4.03 pistons that are good quality for little money. But maybe I should start working on removing my block and selling it as "AS IS" and that way I can get some more money to play around with. Although this may change when my tax return comes in. Also I found a kit from TMS (Thompson Motorsports) that sells a 370 (4.03 bore x 3.622 crank) for $1,999 and a 408 is $3849.

    Maybe you could just send me your block, Scott . This really pisses me off it seems I am screwed just because of a stupid lifter bolt. The fix I thought worked ended up not working. I am tempted to just put the gasket on and the heads on but I am unsure if that would be okay, I know it is the right way to do it but I may be able to last until I can get my funds together, I mean the lifter tray can't exactly go anywhere. Or securing it some other way, even if it is more permanent.

    My understanding between high flow heads and high compression heads is that high flow head have more air flow but high compression heads have more velocity or flow air faster. I may be wrong but that is what my understanding in what I have read.

    I have a question I have not been able to find the answer to. With a 408 can you run a bigger than stock ls1 cam without a stall? I wasn't sure if cubes allowed you to do this.
    Yes and no. Technically the cubes will absorb a lot more cam so for instance a 228/228 cam on an ls1 is a decent cam and def needs a stall but on a 408 something like this would sound like a stock engine and would be fine with a stock stall. But seriously who's going to build a 408 with a stock cam lmao. Idk if a stock ls1 cam would even run in a 408 being its way too small.

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    I didn't mean to run a stock ls1 cam on a 408, more of how big could you go before you needed a stall on a 408. I may replace the stall when I remove my engine since I will have clear access I believe, I have never done any transmission work so I am not 100% positive.

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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    Where do you find them for 1k? I can only find them for $1800ish, although I found this one for $600 and another for $800 but the $800 one looked to be disassembled. The $600 one needs a honing I believe. Here is the link: LQ9 short block let me know what you think. This one is pretty local, so I could go get it, assuming I could get it in the back of my wife's minivan .

    I also found this one but it looks like it may need a hone or boring:Another LQ9, a LQ4
    theyre a dime a dozen down here lol lots of them sell for that much and over on tech they sell for around that. I could have bought an lq9 shortblock in running condition for 450 the other day lol. that one looks ok and if it doesnt look like any cylinders are score i would just run it till you decide to stroke it. when you go there though make sure it is a true lq9. i cant tell in the pic but an lq9 will have flat pistons where as lq4's are dished.

    buy that block, clean it up and do this for now imo.
    l92 heads 450 used
    cam 400
    springs 200
    pushrods 100
    l76 intake 350
    misc 200

    thats 450whp for under 2k lol

    and on the cam i'm not sure what size would warrant no stall but imp thats a waste. even circle d's budget $400 3200 stall would be good with a cam. and doing a stall is retarded easy. literally unbolt tranny and pull old converter off. then reinstall new converter and rebolt lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    Where do you find them for 1k? I can only find them for $1800ish, although I found this one for $600 and another for $800 but the $800 one looked to be disassembled. The $600 one needs a honing I believe. Here is the link: LQ9 short block let me know what you think. This one is pretty local, so I could go get it, assuming I could get it in the back of my wife's minivan .

    I also found this one but it looks like it may need a hone or boring:Another LQ9, a LQ4
    theyre a dime a dozen down here lol lots of them sell for that much and over on tech they sell for around that. I could have bought an lq9 shortblock in running condition for 450 the other day lol. that one looks ok and if it doesnt look like any cylinders are score i would just run it till you decide to stroke it. when you go there though make sure it is a true lq9. i cant tell in the pic but an lq9 will have flat pistons where as lq4's are dished.

    buy that block, clean it up and do this for now imo.
    l92 heads 450 used
    cam 400
    springs 200
    pushrods 100
    l76 intake 350
    misc 200

    thats 450whp for under 2k lol

    and on the cam i'm not sure what size would warrant no stall but imp thats a waste. even circle d's budget $400 3200 stall would be good with a cam. and doing a stall is retarded easy. literally unbolt tranny and pull old converter off. then reinstall new converter and rebolt lol
    Which link are you talking about? I have 243 heads that I just bought a few months ago, so I think I will run those since I have a FAST 102. Couldn't I install the stall without taking the transmission out if the engine is out? Either way doesn't matter to me, just curious though.

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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    Which link are you talking about? I have 243 heads that I just bought a few months ago, so I think I will run those since I have a FAST 102. Couldn't I install the stall without taking the transmission out if the engine is out? Either way doesn't matter to me, just curious though.
    I was referring to the first one. The other 2 look like they need a rebuild before doing anything. Another thing I forgot to mention is that you want an 01-up lq4/9 reason being is that 99-00 has a longer crank snout and wont bolt up to a 4l60e or t56 without a new crank or some machine work.

    An sorry I forgot you already had the heads lol. Being that you have 243's now it wont matter a whole lot if you get an lq4 or lq9. With an lq4 and 243's you comp ratio will be around 10.2-10.4:1 while an lq9 will be around 11:1. Since you will be eventually changing the pistons anyway its not a huge deal. I would still try to find an lq9 though reason is that they come will full floating pins, and the extra little compression will help.

    And if the motor is out yes you could swap out the converter right there anyway. If you pull everything out of the bottom its even easier.

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    Okay, I thought the longer crank for certain years applied only to the lq4. The reason I thought was because the lq9 was introduced in 2001. Thanks for the information, I will ask what year the block is.
    Last edited by 98TransAmWs-6; 02-05-2013 at 08:06 AM.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    Yes and no. Technically the cubes will absorb a lot more cam so for instance a 228/228 cam on an ls1 is a decent cam and def needs a stall but on a 408 something like this would sound like a stock engine and would be fine with a stock stall. But seriously who's going to build a 408 with a stock cam lmao. Idk if a stock ls1 cam would even run in a 408 being its way too small.

    IIRC Jodi has this cam in her 6liter and she admits that while it does run, she feels a lot HP is left off. I know she's looking for another cam.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    Okay, I thought the longer crank for certain years applied only to the lq4. The reason I thought was because the lq9 was introduced in 2001. Thanks for the information, I will ask what year the block is.


    LQ4/9's all share the same crank and rods, it's the pistons that are different. LQ4's are dished while LS2/9's are flat top.


    Those 2 blocks you showed me I would pick the one that looks the best deal and go for it. One advantage to getting the one that hasn't been bored over yet is that you can build and run now and if later you want to build a 408 your good to go, with the one that is already done if later on it needs some block work on it it couldn't go much more then it is because it is already near it's max bore limit.

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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    LQ4/9's all share the same crank and rods, it's the pistons that are different. LQ4's are dished while LS2/9's are flat top.


    Those 2 blocks you showed me I would pick the one that looks the best deal and go for it. One advantage to getting the one that hasn't been bored over yet is that you can build and run now and if later you want to build a 408 your good to go, with the one that is already done if later on it needs some block work on it it couldn't go much more then it is because it is already near it's max bore limit.
    Not true the lq9 got thicker rods 123 casting opposed to 143 and also had full floating pins on the pistons instead of press fit. The lq4 got the standard sized rods and has press fit pins. Starting in 05 however the lq4 got the same lq9 setup.

    oh and fwiw the 99-00 block are fine its just the crank is a little longer so a crank swap would be needed to mount it up.

    As you said above I would go with what block looks best, the first is appealing to me because its complete, together, bores look good and could probably be run as is with just a cleanup on the piston tops to remove the carbon. The others will def need a rebuild with rings and bearings which is unnecessary money spent if you're going to stroke it.
    Last edited by redbird555; 02-05-2013 at 08:40 AM.

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    My question is I thought only lq4 99-00 had longer cranks. According to tech no lq9 was mated to anything other than a 4l60e. How hard would it be to swap out the crank if I had to? Also how would I know it has the longer crank?

    The guy doesn't know what year the lq9 is. Also about how heavy is a lq9?
    Last edited by 98TransAmWs-6; 02-05-2013 at 09:01 AM.

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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    I was mainly referring to lq4's there sorry for the confusion. Lq9's came out in late 01 so no lq9 ever had the long crank so you should be ok there. If you did have to swap the crank on an lq4 you "could" just unbolt the old rods remove the crank and then swap in new bearings and reinstall it torqued to spec of course.

    And the other answer is that the iron engines all share the same block dimensions so any iron block will be 80lbs give or take heavier than its ls counterpart.

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    Well darn the lq9 short block got sold. He has a 6.0 bare block left though. I may get a bare block and buy the rotating aseembly myself or use my ls1 assembly except get ls2 or lq9 pistons.

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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    only draw back to that is you would have to either get a rotating assembly complete from factory or rebalance yours with the new pistons

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    Not true the lq9 got thicker rods 123 casting opposed to 143 and also had full floating pins on the pistons instead of press fit. The lq4 got the standard sized rods and has press fit pins. Starting in 05 however the lq4 got the same lq9 setup.
    OK, this makes sense. I'm still researching the LQ stuff.

    So my idea of switching over to LS2 pistons will work on a stock bore to up the compression. I got a set used for $100, getting new LQ9's would have been triple that so I snagged them. Only one piston has some issues that I will replace it. I can get a stock LS2 piston for $50.

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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    yes this is correct. just remember though with ls2 pistons you need either ls2 rods or lq9 rods. reason being is the floating pin in those pistons requires a rod with a bushing in it which the lq4 does not have

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    only draw back to that is you would have to either get a rotating assembly complete from factory or rebalance yours with the new pistons
    I figured that. I may see if I can piece together a factory 6.0 rotating assembly so I don't have to rebalance it but I may have to. Hopefully I am capable of installing all the internals and don't fuck up.

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